Wuhan Flu: An Antibody Problem?

Two stories out in the last few hours that I hope aren’t related.

Independent;

The UK government’s new testing chief has admitted that none of the 3.5 million antibody tests ordered from China are fit for widespread use.
 
Professor John Newton, who was appointed by health secretary Matt Hancock to oversee testing, reportedly said the tests were only able to identify immunity in people who had been severely sick with coronavirus.
 
The tests did not pass the evaluation stage, and he was quoted by The Times as saying they were “not good enough to be worth rolling out in very large scale”.

Or, there may be another explanation.

Researchers in Shanghai hope to determine whether some recovered coronavirus patients have a higher risk of reinfection after finding surprisingly low levels of Covid-19 antibodies in a number of people discharged from hospital.
 
A team from Fudan University analysed blood samples from 175 patients discharged from the Shanghai Public Health Clinical Centre and found that nearly a third had unexpectedly low levels of antibodies.
 
In some cases, antibodies could not be detected at all.
 
“Whether these patients were at high risk of rebound or reinfection should be explored in further studies,” the team wrote in preliminary research released on Monday on Medrxiv.org, an online platform for preprint papers.
 
Although the study was preliminary and not peer-reviewed, it was the world’s first systematic examination of antibody levels in patients who had recovered from Covid-19, the disease caused by the coronavirus, the researchers said.

Meh. Probably nothing.

Related.

37 Replies to “Wuhan Flu: An Antibody Problem?”

  1. Start planning to be stocked up till September

    After that CLOCKWORK ORANGE with all the young males with cabin fever roaming the streets

    This isn’t a virus that will go away in the summer.

    Sorry, on one hand I hope I’m wrong and on the other hand Get right with God

  2. “In some cases, antibodies could not be detected at all.”

    => I don’t trust the corrupt system. The tests don’t work well enough, so they don’t know if the patient had corona in the first place. The country of milk poisoned by melamine, anything can happen when you pay money to boost your business. The N95 can be fake, the test can be fake, the re-test can be fake. Or the thing can be a purposeful lie.

    1. I’m more inclined to believe that these folk were either false-positived or never-tested (physical diagnosis only), with an honourable mention to poor antibody testing. The antibody test here in AB is apparently only 93% accurate (if you trust the AHS), so some will slip through regardless. If the test is a good one, and if the patient was infected with the virus, it should be detectable; otherwise, the entire virus/antibody paradigm (not just for Covid) is likely wrong, which is a scary AF concept I’d rather not contemplate.

      1. Agree. Because the symptoms of COVID19 when it os mild match so many ordinary bugs I would be inclined to think a lot of these cases of no antibodies are people who got sick with something else. When you’re carrying a hammer, everything is a nail.

  3. The Chinese Coronavirus wasn’t an unfinished Bioweapon being developed in the Wuhan Institute of Virology. It just sure seems to act like a Bioweapon in many ways, but nobody can prove it was developed in, and escaped from the lab.

    It has a relatively long symptoms free incubation period.
    It can be spread person to person.
    It can be spread by aerosols.
    It can be spread via the fecal-oral route.
    It can infect people through their eyes, their mucous membranes, and orally.
    It has a relatively long life on inanimate objects.
    It can be spread by asymptotic people that feel perfectly healthy and normal.
    It damages the lungs permanently damaging survivors with scarring and fibrosis.
    It also attacks the Heart, and possibly any organs that have ACE2 receptors too.
    It causes people to be ill and weak for weeks, not days.
    It attacks males more than females.

    The only thing it doesn’t do is kill high percentages of the young and healthy people (almost all military aged males survive) like you would expect a good Biological Warfare Weapon would kill. Maybe the Chinese Communist Researchers had not made it that far in the weapons development process yet?

    No, I don’t think anyone purposefully released the virus into Wuhan. But the Wuhan Virology Institute lab was only a BSL-2 lab, not a BSL-4 lab like any responsible nation would use for these virulent organisms. We know from previous Chinese Bio-Lab accidents and mistakes, they have released live diseases into the public. We know they have sold lab animals to food markets for humans. One unscrupulous lab worker in China made a million dollars doing just that before was finally caught.

    If the Chinese were going to release it anywhere in China on purpose, it would be in the rebellious province of HongKong. That would have crushed any HK protests, and given them cover for disappearing any rebel leaders.

    1. I still think this is just a plain old coronavirus too. We have the sequence. We know what it is. RNA viruses are just a real bitch to deal with. China was collecting them, testing them (and there are legitimate reasons for doing so) and some worker decided to make a quick buck on the side by selling animals in the market instead of incinerating them. I just don’t think humans can outdo nature in making such a bug. It’s a whopper but we’ve been here over and over again since long before we had petri dishes. I refuse to attribute malice to what can explained by plain old stupidity, even from the Chinese. And we should bill Chicom for the expenses their negligence created. Knock a few billion off our debt to them.

      1. Uh….lts try for 5-6 TRILLION Instead.. A much more “reasonable” (bout 1/3 – 1/2 the wests debt to the Chicomms.?)

    2. “If the Chinese were going to release it anywhere in China on purpose, it would be in the rebellious province of HongKong.”

      Or Tibet or Sinkiang.

  4. And we should be concerned because so far everyone has been terribly reliable and trustworthy.

    1. Yes! Since I grew up near Chicago I heard Prine when he first started singing/songewriting. He came to be the legendary songwriter that many people have never heard of. But they’d recognize a lot of his songs — covered by a lot of famous singers.

  5. Ignore the so-called Chinese data. The fundamental principle of all modeling of the Wuhan virus should be: incorporate no Chinese “data “in any model.

    We can’t be sure that it isn’t more Chinese propaganda designed to lure the west into further destroying its prosperity through endless lockdowns. It’s time to rely on ourselves again.

  6. It’s hard to say what this means. It’s possible that there has been a second strain of virus circulating that would explain the failure of tests and the stories of recovered people becoming reinfected.

    Or it’s possible the antibodies don’t stay in the body long. No one really knows why immunity endures for a long time for some diseases and wanes rather quickly for another. It would be really unfortunate if immunity for recovered people were really short-lived.

    Or it’s possible the Chinese tests and clinical testing performance just suffers from terrible quality control and all of the data is garbage.

  7. Here is a preliminary study out of Portland. It may relate to the two articles or it may “be nothing.”

    https://vizwild.com/community-serum-antibody-testing/

    Out of 40 ppl tested one showed really strong presence of antibodies (person had some sort of infection in December) a slightly lesser presence of antibodies in an acquaintance (fought some sort of bug in January) and several with weak signs of antibodies.

    A good chunk of those tested thought they had experienced COVID19 but showed no signs of antibodies. This really could be nothing if they were like me. All I have to do is read a list of symptoms to start to experience them at some level. Or it could be kinda ugly.

  8. rd said
    “The only thing it doesn’t do is kill high percentages of the young and healthy people (almost all military aged males survive) “

    That’s the next one. In the fall, after Chinese propaganda convinces us Trump did this one.

  9. Those people with low antibodies from WORKING tests should get Hydroxychloroquine along with the rest of Canadians.
    Hannity April 7.
    Out of 9 Million people they randomly sampled through insurance companies they found 14,000 people with Lypus.
    The Lupus patients take 200mg of Hydroxychloroquine 2x daily.
    ZERO (0.0) of those Lupus patients have Covid19.
    Yet they should have it because they are immunosuppressed.
    So they are putting the word out that they WANT to hear from someone taking the 2x200mg dosage daily that DID get Covid19.

    At some point this may be available to innoculate the general population as it stops Covid19 and likely ALL mutations. Compassionate use wont be available until September.
    https://www.complex.com/life/2020/04/scientist-from-netflix-pandemic-believes-found-covid-19-cure
    When will Canada get functioning antibody tests and even an adequate supply of Covid19 tests?

    Canada doesn’t have enough PPE especially N95 masks and willing to source substandard PPE from China.

    Canadas medical establishment wont acknowledge the efficacy of Zev Zelenko protocol citing heresay and no clinical trials.
    The medical establishment like Dr. Tam are elitist snobs and have the Canadian media misinforming Canadians. “masks don’t work in the prevention of contracting Covid19”

    1. When you talk of N95 MAsks. SPECIFY what you mean.

      An “N95” Mask is typically a White Dust mask used in Construction. It’s made of Polypropylene and so far I’ve found no evidence that it can be re-used or sanitized. The pair I have, are for all intents and purposes garbage. I say that because they do not have a 1 way release valve to allow exhaled air to escape. As such the Mask is hot to wear and you end up re-breathing CO2 Laden air. Mine adorn a shelf. And I use a Bandana train robber style. Works just fine.

      If you mean the Blue Surgical masks, those are made of paper as are the gowns – such that after single use can be incinerated. These are much looser fitting but in this case I see no reason why they would not provide the same protection level as an N95.

      The Virus is not “airborne” or Aerosol Per Se. It can however see droplets spewed by someone with the virus & violently coughing – up to 40-50 ft thru the air….that’s the danger.

      (..The virus is not a living organism, but a protein molecule (DNA) covered by a protective layer of lipid (fat), which, when absorbed by the cells of the ocular, nasal or buccal mucosa, changes their genetic code (mutation) and converts them into aggressor and multiplier cells…” John Hopkins Hosp.

      What surprises me is that NO ONE Mentions-suggests wearing Safety Glasses or glasses of ANY kind..??? WTF.? Should your eye get hit with a spewed droplet…?? you GONNA get this virus pretty much guaranteed.

        1. Yea…and no exhaust valve.
          These masks are tight fitting…I’ve worn them. I’m actually surprised they make a medical version of them. Paper Surgical masks to me would be a better choice in my opinion, and a shit ton cheaper.

      1. David Menzies wears eye protection. The Korean Virologist Kate featured last week recommended eye protection. Spectacles for frontal exposure worked.

  10. Put another way. The Chinese were testing more than one thing here. The duplicity of western media.
    Their own ability to deploy a bio weapon.
    The willingness of the west to keep buying from them afterward.
    So far, so good.

  11. There’s been talk of re-infection on the 4chan cvg threads for weeks now. Not sure I believe it but there’s even stories of the second or third infection being the killer. Keep in mind the SARS vaccine was abandoned because it made the chance of infection higher and more deadly and this virus is similar to SARS. I hope it’s all a bunch of BS that’s for sure.

    1. This from Iceland:
      Patient test positive for 2 strains of covid at the same time
      https://grapevine.is/news/2020/03/24/patient-infected-with-two-strains-of-covid-19-in-iceland/
      Iceland discovers 40 mutations of Covid
      https://nypost.com/2020/03/24/iceland-scientists-found-40-mutations-of-the-coronavirus-report-says/

      That’s why we need everyone on Hydroxychloroquine until they can mass produce a Covid blocker from Distributed Bio or something similar.
      If it prevents malaria in 3rd world countries it’s already mass produced and inexpensive

      1. I don’t know why people have latched onto hydroxychloroquine as a miracle drug. It may yet prove to be a good treatment, but the evidence is just not in yet. By all means try it, but don’t count on it working. There are anecdotes it works, and anecdotes it doesn’t, but there are currently several studies in progress that will tell one way or the other in the coming weeks. I would expect doctors to try using it simply because they don’t have much else on the shelf, but it has not been conclusively demonstrated it works.

        People are casting about for certainty, but there is little to be had. The virus is new, its effects are still being discovered. Getting to some truths about effective treatments takes time. It’s how science works. Let the researchers do their jobs.

        That it is used to treat other diseases, a parasitic infection, is neither here nor there. You might as well be talking about an athlete’s food remedy.

        The publishers of the original French study are backtracking on publishing it, saying the study was not a good piece of work:
        https://www.isac.world/news-and-publications/official-isac-statement

        Maybe something will come of this, maybe not.

        1. “If you look [at the] countries where malaria is more prevalent and countries where COVID-19 infections are prevalent, you will find a striking difference. This correlation needs to be explored further as this is not just a mere coincidence,” Dr. David Nazarian, a Beverly Hills-based physician, diplomate at the American Board of Internal Medicine and founder of My Concierge MD, told Fox News.
          https://www.foxnews.com/world/do-countries-with-high-rates-of-malaria-have-fewer-coronavirus-deaths

          How Wuhan Virologists Pegged Chloroquine as a Potential COVID-19 Cure
          https://thediplomat.com/2020/04/how-wuhan-virologists-pegged-chloroquine-as-a-potential-covid-19-cure/

          1. Exactly. It needs to be explored. It’s a potential cure. It’s promising, but time will tell.

            Remember: you need to see the world as it is, not as we wish it to be. Magical thinking is for hippies.

            Save you a click, from the second article about whether an effect seen in the lab might translate to treatment in the real world:
            Meanwhile, doctors in New York City and around the world are quietly using chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine on an off-label basis for desperately ill patients. Time will tell if their findings will confirm what virologists in Wuhan noticed nearly two months ago.

  12. Maybe they’re not showing antibodies because they were never infected with Covid-19 in the first place.

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