I’m not generally a fan of reality TV (I’ve never seen an episode of Survivor or The Apprentice), but I did catch Brat Camp last night.
It was fascinating stuff, despite the bawling teenage drama queens. One thing I did notice right away – nearly all the parents of these “out of control” (spoiled rotten) teens were well into their late forties or fifties. With Stats Can reporting that the average first time mother is now over thirty years old, one wonders if the combination of affluence, fewer (or no) siblings, and the “maturity” that one gains with age and experience (read: too much exposure to child rearing experts on afternoon tv) may not prove to be a recipe for indulgence.
It’s going to be interesting to watch these brats – and brat is the word for them – deal with the 40 or more days of winter survival camp before them. (They can earn their release after 40 days, but not before. Some students have spent as long as 3 months.) It will be equally interesting to watch the reactions of the bleeding hearts and child psychologistas over the coming weeks.
You’re onto something, I think, re: indulgent parents. I was 33 when my daughter was born and thank God on a regular basis I waited. The patience required is humongous!!! I might be more indulgent than some, but expect/demand decent behavior (polite, respectful, help with chores, etc.).
However, I’ve often been appalled by the behavior shown by her visiting friends (or stories told to me by her). One friend of hers regularly yells, screams and calls her parents names if they disregard her wishes. On anything. In front of friends, at the store – wherever. She has proven to be emotionally dishonest and has suggested to my daughter that theft is an option (who immediately called BS – I happened to inadvertently overhear the conversation). That’s not hormones, that’s an out-of-control kid. And she’s not alone.
I don’t understand why parents are prepared to put up with that kind of behavior.
While I didn’t catch it, from your description this reality show reminds me of the program – is it Outward Bound? Originally geared toward problem teens, but now open to others? Only I think that one is only 2 weeks. One can only hope that the kids end up learning some very important life lessons (for everyone’s sake)!
COMPLETELY agree. I watched the first ep last night and it was bang on. The next few weeks of reviews should be interesting. But regardless what critics say, it will be interesting to see the effects that an environment demanding integrity, hard work and responsibility will have on such delinquents.
I actually wonder if part of the problem isn’t that these parents aren’t too patient. There’s sometimes merit in losing one’s temper and solving a behavior problem with a swift kick.
Outward Bound is still around . a long time ago I was part of it and the program is excellent.
One thing about the show that made me gag was the whacko names all the staff gave themselves . . reminded me of a meeting of the tree-hugger society of Tofino or something.
We have friends who couldn’t say no to their kids . just tried to “reason” with them. Kids are now wild and will soon have their driver’s licences.
Some will be dead because they have zero common sense, belive the world owes thme and they are always right.
It will be a sad, but predictable day
I, for some reason, found myself strangely interested in this show. Almost like watching a train wreck.
I love how they take their shoes 😀
And then there is the show , Princes of Malibu in which David Foster attempts to rein in his stepsons , whose father is Bruce Jenner and mother is Foster’s wife, Linda Thompson.
I have not seen this show, but my daughter called telling me about it.
It sounds similar and I wonder how David will make out, alone,( as he seems to be) in his effort to halt the spoiled rotten behaviour.
And I am with Kate: A good swift kick in the behind never hurt a spoiled and petulant child. Often brings them out of their self-indulgent fantasies.
I caught part of the show last night, and I actually enjoyed it.
It seems to have a lot more “reality” than many other reality shows.
Outward-Bound and this exercise are steps in the right direction all right. Now for the coup-de-grace, a Drug Re-Hab facility in the far North.
Why not? You can’t run a Drug Re-Hab in populated areas. Too much stuff coming and going over the fence.
Give people who made the mistaken choice of self-destruction a real chance of recovery.
True, the Federal costs for this will not be insignificant, but I suggest the public costs of crime and the spread of addiction among peers is a hundred times greater.
There is the cost of tourists who see people injecting on the curbs in Vancouver and then never return to Canada. They report this to other possible visitors at home as well.
Shooting up in public should be the simple ticket for a trip to the Clean-up hotel in the far North.
What about civil rights? People who shoot up in public are committing suicide. Last I heard, that was against the law.
Yes, I would prefer to see no one shooting up in the streets, but suggesting a hospital in the North for druggies does not mean I’m simply being selfish.
There are many who were hopeless drug addicts who are living a life today because they had a chance to dry out and get back to normal.
Aside from clean needles, I don’t see much positive in the Shoot-up rooms in Vancouver.
Seems like a small bandaid to me. 73s TG
I’ve always thought all labour disputes should be settled over picnic tables at Resolute Bay.
Fred, I don’t see reasoning with kids being a problem, although trying exclusively to reason with them can be an issue. I used to have rules explained to me, and so when my mom would pull out the “because I said so” she hadn’t overused it to the point where I’d roll my eyes and try to get around the rule. Explaining the rules – reasoning with kids – can help build trust that your parents really are trying to do what’s best for you, and not just being killjoys.
Of course, the few times I got out of line, I got whacked, and that’s important too.
Brat camp? Quick where can we sign up the smarmy patronizing Trudeau brat…or does young master commissar Sacha not make the age limit? What if they are over age but still act like insufferable pampered elitist brats? Can we get an exception for this pupating moonbat spawn?
My husband and I both watched, fascinated. As a psychology student and minister, we are both drawn to a serious desire to help at-risk youth. I see both over-indulgence at work with some serious issues that should have been addressed years before. Each was dealing with issues such as adoption, parental death, and sexual trauma that should have been dealt with on the part of the parents seeking out help much sooner than they did.
I think the bigger issue is rather than try to help their kids, their parents coddled them and pitied them for events of their past. Wrong approach, every time.
The looks on their faces when they found out that the shoe was on the other foot for a change – that their parents had lied to them about how long they’d be there – was priceless.
Re: Kate & Snowbunnie’s suggestion regarding a “swift kick” – unfortunately, that’s illegal now, and any kid that has attended kindergarten knows it, and knows about the abuse hotline.
But, there are always privileges that can be revoked. Interestingly, I just had a “we are not equals” conversation with my daughter this morning. Well, conversation might be an understatement, but you get my drift.
Consistency is key. Ever since I “made the TV snow” when she was 2 (by disconnecting the cable for some major infraction that I now forget), she has known that when Mom says she’s going to do something (particularly on the revokation of privileges), she does it. Warnings are optional. 😉
I’ve noticed that so many parents try to quickly soothe toddlers and preschoolers the moment that they get whiny or demanding. It’s like we are trying to wipe up a spill before others notice. These days that usually involves trying to negociate or reason with them to calm the situation.
Trudopian culture has suckered many of us into believing that no one needs to suffer any discomfort. So even three year olds are presented with reasoned arguments and if need be negotiations can continue until their minimum demands are met. They may be too young to be reasonable but they understand the negotiation process very quickly.
This is a lesson that they carry on to future years.
I guess in the childhood days of the boomer babies there were too many of us in the family to even try that approach. Parents had no choice but to tune out a lot of the crying and shouting. And for the kids, that were old enough to understand, there was still the threat of physical discipline.
“There’s sometimes merit in losing one’s temper and solving a behavior problem with a swift kick.” – Kate
“…unfortunately, that’s illegal now, and any kid that has attended kindergarten knows it, and knows about the abuse hotline.” – Candace
Kate, somehow, I can’t believe you would EVER do such a thing to your dogs, right? Oh yes, sorry, you just meant children, silly me. BTW, that’s what my dad thought too about my mom, but he saw behaviour problems 2-3 times a month. I just kept really quiet.
Candace, well the good old days are gone. But you can still scream and humiliate them and they can’t put you in jail for that; and it hurts them just as much. Thank God for small favors, eh? Somehow I think that if your kids need to know the abuse hotline number and you’re afraid they’ll use it, there’s probably a lot more kicking that talking going on in your house.
Get a prescription.
Maple Stump…
Have you ever broken up a dog fight?
Come back and talk to me after you have.
Make them big dogs, will you?
In the meantime, please try hard to get a clue – the one that indicates there’s a big, big difference between a proverbial “swift kick” to a rear end that has forgotten that actions can have physical consequences – and child abuse.
Been there, deserved it.
– Those kids should not be paraded on T.V. like that, talking about how they’ve had sex, or taken cocaine, or drink so much. Especially the 14-YEAR-OLDS!
– The camp counsellers were annoying, with dumb cringe-worthy names, and the voive-over narration was even worse.
– It was fascinating.
– If I was the producer, I’d have loved to have put some small print in the contract that I guess the parents signed, giving me permission to round THEM [the parents] up and send them off for some wilderness training.
– I think most of those kids problems are mostly the parents fault. The simple fact that the parents would let their kids’ problems be plastered all over the air-waves tells you lots. It’s a complete violation of their privacy, and such exposure could easily be very embarrassing in future, or they could even get off on it, thereby feeding their narcissism.
– One of the parents actually said, “She’s so spoiled! She just comes and asks for money, and so we give her fifty bucks and we KNOW she goes and buys drugs with it.” I’d have loved to see someone rush on-screen and give that guy a big smack upside the head, “What the hell are you talking about you damn moron!”
–
Theose
The show was filmed last winter. The fact that their faces are shown indicates the kids signed off on it.
I’m not sure what difference it makes when it was filmed. But I think the parents would be the ones to give consent to film/broadcast, which seems just wrong to me.
If my daughter was like those kids, I can’t imagine advertising her problems all over the airwaves.
I mentioned when it was filmed to point out the whole experiment is over and in the can. Parents or no parents, they wouldn’t be airing it without the permission of the participants.
^^ They’re minors ^^
I’m not arguing with you Brian. I didn’t make the series.
CONFESSION: I WATCHED BRAT CAMP
So did Kate at Small Dead Animals, who was similarly fascinated….
These camps are not like you see on tv. They are dangerous and kids die.
Please read the story of a survivor.
http://www.63days.com/
“There’s sometimes merit in losing one’s temper and solving a behavior problem with a swift kick.” – Kate
“…unfortunately, that’s illegal now, and any kid that has attended kindergarten knows it, and knows about the abuse hotline.” – Candace
One of my kids tried that trick on me. “You can’t touch me, I’ll call you in for child abuse.” So I thought about it for a second, and then handed him the phone. I said, “You know what, go ahead. I may end up in jail for a week or two, but CPS will yank your butt out of this house and put you in foster care and I won’t have to deal with you anymore. Hmmmm, Okay, that’s a fair deal. Hell, I’ll dial for you”. He quickly backed off – the thought of foster care didn’t appeal to him, apparently. There’s truth in being TOO patient, because in the beginning (this was a step child), I was very patient, but this child had learned that patience = weakness. When he called his mother several choice names, I whacked his behind into next week. Problems were few and far between after that – parents have to set boundaries, and they have to act like those boundaries and their words mean something. Giving a kid $50 all the time and then whining that she spends them on drugs is total BS. Letting a kid scream at you, call you vile names and slam the door in your face – unh unh, sorry Charlie, not in this house. I think you are absolutely right, Kate – these parents were TOO patient for far too long. And the proverbial “swift kick” is not child abuse – letting the kid run around committing crimes, taking drugs, having sex, being disrespectful and abusive – that’s child abuse, and society abuse as well.
Growing up in an environment (working farm) where disobeying could cause death or serious injury, the importance of getting a point across was more important that those later invented notions about “self esteem” and “spanking teaches violence”..
Getting caught in a grain auger because you didn’t listen when told to “stay away” is a way to learn about “violence”, too.
To quote Nancy Reagan, “just say no.” I learned that a long time ago and now that my kids are grown up (21 and 24) both have told me how much they appreciate that. It is not that hard to say no to a kid. Parents hold the trump cards. They can refuse to pay for car insurance, clothes, extra stuff if the kids misbehave.
Now that my kids are older, I really see the fallout of spoiled kids and lazy parents. When I see a failed kid (academically, socially, etc) I look at the parents. They failed their kid. My sister a therapist always says that you have to “pay attention to your kids when they are little or you get to pay attention to them all of your life, so make the sacrifices when the kids are little.”
My husband and I NEVER watch reality shows, but we watched this one. Fifteen years ago we sent one of our own off to a similar camp for two weeks. It was life-changing and -saving for our son. With the experience so far in the past, and a happy outcome, we howled with laughter through almost the entire show. Brats, indeed! The drama was unsurpassed. But what pain they are all going through….we remember it well and it still brings tears to our eyes.
The fact that the mention of a “swift kick” could elicit commenst about abuse is indicative, to me, of the amount of brainwashing the touchy-feely crowd of the 60’s has been able to perpetrate.
I have worked i the mental health field as a therapist for 5 years now, with much of that as a therapist in residentail treatment for adolescents.
I can tell you that most of their problems (not all) are from one thing: the inability to accept the word “no” when uttered by an adult caregiver.
Anyone who sees what consequences they have to go through to correct that one missed milestone can appreciate my view that it is parents who don’t teach kids to accept limits who are quilty of abuse by omission.
From one who has seen the end result.
I too, watched Brat Camp. For those parents that need a clue by four to know if their child is out of control: If your child steals from you or your family, he/she is out of control. The average time span that it takes parents to find out their child is doing drugs, drinking, having sex…18 months. A few years ago I was involved in a program called The Parent Project. I highly recommend it for parents of strong-willed or difficult children. These parents needed parenting skills just as the parents of kids in the reality show. I was an instructor in this program and dealt with angry clueless parents as well as their angry clueless kids. If you are curious and want to know more just google “parent project minidoka miracle.”
I noticed that a few of the kids on the show were from single parent families. No dads, how sad.
This was like Marine Corp bootcamp with hippy drill instructors. I am a former Marine, and a dad, and sometimes they are not mutually exclusive. These instructors are firm and disciplinary without being authoritative and calling any of those brats “scumbag” at the tops of their lungs.
Interesting approach – guess I’ll keep tuning in.
Me, Too
Like Michelle Malkin, and Kate at Small Dead Animals, I too watched Brat Camp. I loved it. It is like Nanny 911 for teenagers. Nine kids in trouble, ranging from ages 14-17 all have to go out on a camping adventure with professional therapists. They ha…
IMO, Brat Camp is a primetime infomercial for an multi-billion dollar industry driven by troubled parents, not troubled teens.
Second, it is shocking how misinformed the public is about the safety and efficacy of outdoor behavioral healthcare.
For example:
Did you know teens have been killed while participating in a wilderness therapy program? Not because of an accident … but because they were hiked or restrained to death? Teens like Michelle Sutton. Kristin Chase. Erica Harvey. Ian August. Eddie Lee.
How’s that for reality?
Kids dying in the desert because someone refused to give them water or seek medical attention for them because they thought the “brat” was faking?
http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/foreveryoung.html
http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/RememberingMichelleSutton.html
http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/opedarchives.html
BARBE STAMPS
Founder
Teen Advocates USA
teenadvocatesusa.org
Brat Camp
Ok, I had heard about the TV show Brat Camp and decided to watch a little. Kate of Small Dead Animals and Michelle Malkin watched it as well. My thought: holy crap, they’re doing group therapy and then showing it…
I watched Brat Camp,My hearts go out to the mom and dads of these kids.
If you think it is easy to deal with these kids.
I have a 34 year daughter that is now in jail from stealing from people that loves her and stealing a bag out of a car.
I have been dealing with her for the last 13 years.
Just try to get help its not easy.
Her liver is just about gone and she still will not say she has a proublem.It is always somw one elese faught that she messed up.
even when she was so sick and the Doctor told me she had drugs in her.she swor that she did not do drugs.
she has 3 kids that don’t even know tair mom and it is sad.
And I do the tuff love I have to she will not take me down with her and that is the hardst part.
But I still hope if she would only say the words she would heal but I fell like that will never be.
So good luck and if you can change kids young do it.
A heartbroken MOM
I like this sort of reality show where we’re just sort of eavesdropping on peoples experiences rather than watching contrived ones for TV.
Can’t help but notice that these kids may be learning a new way of approaching life and its ups and downs, but the parents aren’t learning anything.
Except maybe how to pay strangers lots of money to handle your problems for you.
Brat Camp is drama. Not therapy.
These are cherry-picked kids being made to survive a made-for-tv-wilderness-therapy-camp.
Click here to read about the real deal from a real survivor of a wilderness therapy camp:
http://www.63days.com