Today, I received a real-time translation of an Arabic interview with the Gaza head of Hamas. Let me share a couple of points made by the terrorist leader. It reflects the feelings of those who hate Israel and the United States. The statements are from the interview:
1.The disengagement expresses the collapse of the Zionist concept.
2.Gaza withdrawal will raise Arab morale and the Islamic world and will have positive implications in Afghanistan and Iraq. (i.e. more terrorism against Americans)
3.We are part of the global Islamic movement
4.The tools we used in Gaza will be more effective on the West Bank
5.The ceasefire will end at the end of the year.
Meantime, our friend Dore Gold has helped publicize the fact that the United Nations is paying for the production of bumper stickers that the terrorists are distributing with the slogan, “Today Gaza, tomorrow the West Bank and Jerusalem.” The UN money being used was earmarked for anti-poverty programs. I guess Kofi was too busy with the Oil For Food scandal to monitor these funds.
more – from Frum who sees things from a strategic viewpoint.
The world wants a Palestinian state? Very well – let them have it. And the result, as we are seeing, is something close to panic in the foreign ministries of the West. Not just the West: the Middle East too. The Egyptians do not want a Hamas state on their borders. They had expected Ariel Sharon to place a cordon between Egypt and Gaza. He has said he will not do so – that he is leaving the job up to the Egyptians. And indeed last month Israeli Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz announced that 750 Egyptian soldiers would soon arrive to replace the Israeli Defense Forces.
Is this Egyptian role on the border a precursor to a larger Egyptian role within Gaza? Egypt after all remains far more vulnerable to Islamic extremist ideology than Israel. The Egyptian authorities have crushed the extremist movement within their borders. Do they wish to see a jihadist state emerge on their borders? It seems unlikely.
Could it be that Sharon is calling the bluff of Western governments and the Arab states? By creating the very Palestinian state that those governments and those states pretend to want but actually dread – Sharon is forcing them to end their pretense and acknowledge the truth:
The Palestinian leadership is incapable of creating a state that can live at peace with anyone, not Israel, not the other Arab states, not Europe, not the world. Somebody else must govern the restless and violent Arab-majority territories west of the Jordan River. Israel has suffered four decades of condemnation for doing the job. Sharon is now resigning the task to anybody else who would like to step in and take over the job. Nobody wants to. But Egypt and Jordan may soon realize that they have no choice. If there is a secret behind Sharon’s plan – that is it.
THE CITIZEN
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Pauline Tam
The Ottawa Citizen
Saturday, August 20, 2005
http://www.rapp.org/url/?PUUB6RPO
Well another example of UN idiocy….if all they ever produce is bumper stickers, then I could not care less.
Re the pronouncements of Gaza head of Hamas….whoop de do, he is taking credit for something that is supported by most israeli’s, is probably the right strateguc move, since they cannot defend the area, builds Israeli credibility for the real negotiations on west bank and is a step toward the two state solution.
Hamas’ goal is the destruction of israel but I wonder whether or not they truely speak for Palestinians, I dont think they do. Dont make the mistake of seeing palestinian nationalism as an islamic movement, it was secular at the beginning, and islamicists are “johhny come lately’s” to the cause. For them it is a useful tool or bandwagon. The jihadi’s care about the palestinians only inso far as it fuels their idological goals.
This isnt black or white. Supporting a two state solution or seeing the gaza withdrawl as the right thing to do, from a strategy perspective or a “moral” perspective isnt supporting Jihadi’s. Kate I know you havent said one way or another, yet, so this isnt an attack on a phantom position.
The only reason I point this out is the degree to which the conservative movement splinters on this issue. The left is full of doubt here as well but they discuss it less, of course the Liberals just tack with what keeps them in power, generaly keeping their head down.
I believe Sharon is doing the right thing, if only to put his country in a stronger defensive position, militarily and in the court of public opinion. The settlements were a drain militarily, economically and morally on the state of Israel, which while being a state of Jews is not a Jewish state. That is the struggle they are going through no different than any of the purported “Islamic States”.
An interesting parallel is Pakistan, a state created for Muslims. They are of course struglling with this very idea of being an Isalmic state versus being a country of Muslims…the old church/Mosque/Temple vs State divide.
We will see what happens next.
If this is the prevailing mindset of Palestinian “nationalists”, the Palestinian homeland will be a short lived affair. Never have I seen such a masochistic self loathing in a people.
WL Mackenzie Redux, you wrote “Never have I seen such a masochistic self loathing in a people”.
Are you trying to tell us you’ve never seen a Toronto voter? They display their self-loathing every time they go to the ballot box.
Hamas is totally dedicated to the destruction of all Jews – not just Israelis.
Hamas even runs summer camps for thousands of Arab children.
Oh to be a child again at Hamas camp during the lazy days of summer… Swimming, Crafts, Campfire Songs about Killing Jews…
BC con said: “WL Mackenzie Redux, you wrote “Never have I seen such a masochistic self loathing in a people”.
Are you trying to tell us you’ve never seen a Toronto voter? They display their self-loathing every time they go to the ballot box.”
Yer average GTA sheepy hasn’t the needed resolve to martyr themselves to their flakey narcissitic politics…they’ll take free gifts from any slime ball offereing but if you ask them to back their political convictions up by putting their hide on the line they run for cover….don’t confuse the degenerate human cattle who suckle at the teats of the nanny state with the maniacal death wish of Hamas.
See David Warren’s Ottawa Citizen column today, “A eureka moment”, available online as “Gaza explained”:
http://www.davidwarrenonline.com/
Excerpts:
‘…I read a column by David Frum (in Il Foglio, the Italian edition of the Wall Street Journal) explaining why Ariel Sharon decided to withdraw all Israeli settlements from Gaza — even at the risk of fomenting something like civil war in Israel itself, and alienating key political allies. It was a move that could not be explained by American pressure, nor by Israeli domestic political pressure, nor by military necessity…
…Mr. Frum has nailed it.
Mr. Sharon, as everyone else who understands the background situation, is fully aware that, �Post-occupation Gaza will become a Mediterranean Somalia: an unstable failed state in which gangs compete for power and extremist Islam finds a sanctuary.�
But by allowing this to happen, he puts an end to the silly game, in which prevaricators in the West and across the Muslim world attribute every Middle Eastern disorder to Israel�s supposed refusal to allow a Palestinian state. He is now prepared to let them have that state, unconditionally, and let the world see why it should never have come into being.
Let the foreign ministries of Europe now panic about this triumph of Islamism on Mediterranean shores. Let the Egyptians now panic, as Israel removes the watch that protected Egypt as well as Israel from Islamist insurgency. Let Egypt and Jordan be compelled to send their own troops, respectively, into Gaza, and soon the West Bank. Let them take over Israel�s thankless task — or suffer the consequences of it not being done. (The Egyptians have already sent into Gaza their first 750 troops to replace the IDF.)
For that matter, let the international community of professional apologists for Palestinian terrorism now drop their pretensions, and let the world know that what they actually demand is the annihilation of Israel.
Let Israel secure itself within the most defensible available frontiers, and complete the Wall it has been building.’
Mark
Ottawa
Good news when Charon makes a move for the better and no lives are lost. Almost a miracle in fact.
Looking at the political complexities of the map of Israel, this looks like a first step and not a final solution by any means.
Not to be a wet blanket, here is a ton of good news for Albertans and indirectly, Canadians printed in one piece ever at Canada.com
Enter Alberta’s Cash in the search window.
You will see a National / Financial Post item there as the mother of all good stories. Is it time to move back to Calgary? 73s TG
Tony, can you post the link? the search didn’t work when I tried it.
Sure it works Candace,
Canada.com then Alberta’s Cash gives you a page with 4 ads and *Alberta’s Cash Conundrum* below.
Click on that and Voila. 73s TG
These comments are, once again, proof that all these guys respect is force. You cannot deal with them. The only thing they understand is power. Israel and the United States know this. The Democrats no longer run the show in Washington. Bush has about three more years to finish the job he started and he’s going to finish it. I believe the final solution for dealing with radical Islamic organizations in the Middle East is beginning and Israel is getting onside.
There was no easy way for Israel to protect the 4,500 Israeli settlers that were in Gaza when this war begins, so pulling them out was their only option. This is the beginning of the final war against these organizations, and I believe it will include the religious thugocracies in Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia.
I think this will involve a joint effort by Israel, the United States and Britain.
As for the UN, there is only one reason the US allows it to remain in New York. It’s much easier to spy on these guys when they’re in New York than it would be if they were in any European country. There are more enemies of the West at the UN than in any other similar organization in the world. I think this is their reasoning. I don’t agree however. I think the US should have booted this corrupt organization out years ago, and withdrawn from it completely.
TonyGuitar. You bet it is. I was in Calgary a few weeks ago and about 6 out of 10 people I talked to brought up the question of separation before I did. The link you provided to ‘Alberta’s cash conundrum’ in the National Post contains interesting facts. Look also for some Alberta/US deals for Oil Sands development after the Vice President’s visit to Alberta in a few weeks. Provincial energy resources are owned by the provinces and Alberta does not have to deal with Ottawa in order to sign agreements with their customers or investors, contrary to what many people may think.
The Americans would love to replace Middle East oil with Alberta oil. The pipelines already exist and Alberta already supplies more oil to the US than the Middle East. I believe there are about 14 refineries up and down the Rockies south of the border, and more can be built. If people think Alberta is rich now just wait five years. With lower taxes and less red tape the number of companies re-locating from Ontario to Alberta will be a flood.
This is the reason I don’t think it matters if the Liberals remain in power in Ottawa or not. The real reasons I want the Liberal Party out of Canadian politics are corrupt laws like the Gun Law and Kyoto, both of which result in no benefits for Canada and floods of money into the accounts of Liberal party backers, many of which, by the way, are in the UN. And disarming Canadians is a cornerstone of another big story which we can’t get into in this post.
I will return to Alberta for a vote on separation. I consider myself a Canadian first, but I will become an Albertan again in order to fight for the Canada I love.
Sorry for the long post…
Now whatch the Gaza sStrip … I can’t think of a more entertaining stipper. However …. so .. like … how many ways do we need to find out that the Palaminos want all of Israel and all Jews everywhere dead dead dead!
I mean jeez .. that’s all the’ve yelling for decades. They have many other choruses chiming right in with them … not the least of which is the American Left and all Muslims everwhere. And in case anyone missed it … we western scummers on the list too.
Get it!! Jews … all dead …. Israel no mo .. and dat der is da message nez paz.
It’s hard to understand, but then so is a lot of stuff on earth ‘the big crazy’.
�A Muslim rapist I know wanted to be a suicide bomber, having been convinced the West was rotten to the core, since it took the word of a mere woman against his�… more�
http://www.rapp.org/url/?P9JU6D9M
Singapore has a population of 4.5 million on 700 square miles. Alberta has an area of 400,000 sq miles. Equivalent population would be 250 million people. I think I did the math right. However, there is a lot of room for a lot of people in Alberta. Population growth causes it’s own economic expansion regardless of government action. 333,000 people a year for 15 years would make Alberta’s population 8 million.
Frum is on the money.
[General] Sharon has adjusted and rationalized his frontline while improving his interior lines.
He’s released a significant portion of IDF resources from being tied down in bunkers and checkpoints throughout Gaza.
He’s eliminated the Jewish settlement “no-fire” circles from the battle maps: all Gaza can now be engaged if need be.
And he’s given the PA its dream-come-true: Gaza is theirs! Well, theirs and Hamas’s; have fun sorting it all out, you two!
JJM. You bet. Gaza will be a fun place to watch for awhile. In fact the whole Middle East will be a happenin’ place for awhile. A lot of the scum have gone back to Iraq and Iraq has become the terrorist’s main battleground against America by their own admission. Get a bunch of them in Gaza fighting amongst themselves, and hurling missiles at Israel, and Israel will eventually have a real excuse to step in and deal with them and eliminate the problem once and for all. After all the scum and thugs are killed maybe the Palestinians and Israelis can find a way to live togther peacefully. I bet they will.
Found it, Tony, I was searching in the wrong spot. That’s very interesting. Kinda sneaky. I think I like it…
The only issue I have with Frum’s article is the statement “somebody else must govern the restless and violent Arab majority territories west of the Jordan River.”
Well it really wasnt Israels right to govern them in the first place, and if it were to govern them they would have to give them the right to vote and citizenship. That clearly isnt on the table. The arrogance in Frum’s statement is a little much.
That being said I agree with the statement that Arafat never failed to miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
Re Egypt and Jihadis….of course they dont want a Jihadi state on their border…..they will take actions to protect themselves.
Our role, as small as it may be, is to encourage and support the “right” people within Palestinian politics. Which also means keeping Hamas on the Terrorist list in this country and cutting its funding. Along with every other Islamacist group playing in that area.
A two state solution is what everyone agrees is the answer, with the exception of the radicals on both sides. The radicals fuel disappears when the two states co exist and then act in their own interests.
Palestine was always an excuse for the Jihadis not a reason. For example, one excuse for Bin Ladens attacks in the US was US troops in Saudi. Well the US troops have left now that the threat from Sadaam is gone. But has that changed Bin Ladens mind…not one bit…its an excuse, just like Palestine.
There are reasons seperate from the Islamofascists to move to a two state solution…and it will help in the fight against the IF’s but it wont end it.
The Fruit Of Martyrs
srael pulling back from Gaza is just plain foolish. They have achieved nothing but embolding their enemy, just as Clinton did to Osama after Somalia. David Frum has an interesting take tho:
Steven denBeste made the point when the wall was first being built that it would lead to a Palestinian civil war. I was surprised at first by his idea but after thinking about it decided that he might very well be correct. The PA and Hamas have been at each other’s throats’ for some time, but it is not yet clear how far this internal battle will go. denBeste also pointed out that by building the wall Israel was unilaterally imposing a two state solution. The aforementioned declarations by Hamas confirm that they still want to unilaterally impose a one state solution . My understanding is that many, even a majority, on both sides would accept a two state solution. I believe that Sharon’s strategy advances the possibility of a real two state solution by putting the onus on the Palestinians and their supporters to get on with the job of trying to build a viable Palestinian state instead of pursuing the goal of destroying Israel. Or put another way Sharon’s strategy will force the Palestinians to turn their energy more inwardly and decide if that energy will be spent in self destruction or in building a viable country. They can and will keep their goal of ultimately destroying Israel – nothing can stop them from doing that – but if they are realistic enough to accept a de facto two state solution then there is some hope. Personally I believe there will be a big power struggle followed by a long period of cooling off and getting on with what they have.
In Year One of “Life After Yasser” the appeasers in the west will observe the creation of a Palistinian state…but under much different circumstances then they envisioned. That state will be very much like a prison ground – isolated from everything surrounding it. Those inside will cry “no fair” and “we want better or else”. Of course Israel will be the sole culprit to blame…not for establishing a Palistinian state, but for not allowing the free access to their own state for the continuation of bloodshed of jews at the hands of Palestinian terrorists (freedom fighters in CBC jargon).
Maybe a democrat like Hillary Clinton will be able to smarten the Israelis up once she becomes president! Lack of jewish blood spattered in buses, weddings and markets is bad for news ratings.
There is a link from LGF to the vile, murderous, excrement from the Islamist murderers:>>>
An Islamic Call for Genocide
At a very active Muslim forum, a �Senior Member� explains why all Jews must either submit to Islam or die, with extensive quotes from the Koran: A Muslim Call to the Israelis.>>
Down with Islamist murderers.
Long live Israel.
Egyptian generals take charge of Gaza Strip
August 22, 2005, 1:59 PM (GMT+02:00)
A high-ranking 100-man Egyptian military delegation has taken de facto charge of Palestinian security forces in the Gaza Strip and is handling talks with Hamas to avert an outbreak of terrorist violence. DEBKAfile�s military sources report General Ibrahim Shukri heads the team of three Egyptian generals and several colonels and majors. The same general also led the probe of the October 15, 2004 al Qaeda Taba bombings. His appointment betokens Cairo�s anxiety over the threat of al Qaeda terror infiltration of the Gaza Strip
>>>>>>> debka.com