Hamas may have won the Palestinian elections, which may in turn make Benjamin Netanyahu the next Prime Minister of Israel. CNN is now reporting that the current Palestinian government has resigned. The election of Hamas taken together with the crisis in Iran suggests that that the world is being challenged by very deeply rooted forces which traditional international institutions may be incapable of handling. The way to safety hangs on events that haven’t resolved themselves yet. Whether the policy of democraticization has blunted the rush to madness — Egyptian blogger the Big Pharaoah thinks Middle East democracy boosts Islamists; whether Iran will acquire the bomb; whether Israel will draw its sword to prevent it; whether Syria’s ruling dynasty will fall; whether Europe will break out of its demographic death-spiral. Because success relies so much on the exploitation of contingent events it’s a dangerous time for America to be divided, with one side unsure of whether any real danger besides BushchimpHitler exists and the other in the grip of a half-articulated policy; both almost fatalistically slouching towards a
future where there are no certain or even probable endings.
Just beneath the surface of many self-described Canadian “progressives”, (not to mention a few of those new “metropolitan” opposition MP’s) runs a strong and virulent anti-Israeli current.
That surface is about to be scratched. Watch what happens.
I hate to say this and I know I’ll be flamed but Hamas is extreme right wing. yes I said right; they make sence to their populous who are extremely religious. This is the true nature of their beliefs. This is the mantra the left has preyed upon north america with, but we do not believe the hate and feelings of supiriority the muslims believe in. I am unfortunately glad at hamas being in power because now we can define our values of the right being against religous extremism. I have read the koran and it is a hateful text of what god intended; some to the point but basically hate for those who don’t believe. This is the factor in our world that will kill us all if we don’t act and they feel no remorse for it as their text instructs them to do. If I were George Bush, I’d nuke em out of existence immediately!
We speak of the ‘high civilization and culture’ that was Islam, back in the day…from which the Arab World ‘declined’…
Show me.
(invented the “zero” and some algebra…and? I mean other than what, that they absorbed by direct consequence of Conquest?)
Winston Churchill on the Quran: – “The Mein Kampf of War”. I go with that, be it “DNA” or some other factor (like what it says in the Bible, about Ishmael, fer instance – though that I’ll leave to others to debate), and as wishin’ won’t make it all go away, get my head around “perpetual war”, to victory or dhimmitude/death…
Read the Hamas Charter, and then come straightfaced to talk to me about “alternatives to perpetual war”: – http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/documents/charter.html
Watching the invasion of Iraq on BBC, Fox and CNN, it was clear that the most level coverage was Fox. LMAO!!! Oh my.
At the risk of raising the ire of some of you around here…
Which side of the current Israeli-Palestinian has suffered the greater human losses- as of Sept. 2005, more than 3200 Palestinians had been killed by Israeli forces, while 974 Israelis had been killed by Palestinians (both figures include militants, civilians and soldiers altogether). Are you folks here suggesting that Palestinian lives are worth less? On top of that, which side has been economically devastated? Which is on the wrong side of the 650km wall?
Palestine may have democratically elected an extreme government, but that doesn’t mean its people don’t deserve our compassion. Gaza is one of the poorest, most disadvantaged places in the world. No wonder there’s hatred. A little compassion from the West and Israel could go a long ways…heaven knows it’s the only thing that hasn’t been tried.
Kate, why is any criticism of Israel’s policies viewed as anti-Semitic?
Article Seventeen: The Role of Muslim Women
The Muslim women have a no lesser role than that of men in the war of liberation; they manufacture men and play a great role in guiding and educating the [new] generation. The enemies have understood that role, therefore they realize that if they can guide and educate [the Muslim women] in a way that would distance them from Islam, they would have won that war. Therefore, you can see them making consistent efforts [in that direction] by way of publicity and movies, curricula of education and culture, using as their intermediaries their craftsmen who are part of the various Zionist Organizations which take on all sorts of names and shapes such as: the Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, gangs of spies and the like. All of them are nests of saboteurs and sabotage. Those Zionist organizations control vast material resources, which enable them to fulfill their mission amidst societies, with a view of implementing Zionist goals and sowing the concepts that can be of use to the enemy. Those organizations operate [in a situation] where Islam is absent from the arena and alienated from its people. Thus, the Muslims must fulfill their duty in confronting the schemes of those saboteurs. When Islam will retake possession of [the means to] guide the life [of the Muslims], it will wipe out those organizations which are the enemy of humanity and Islam.
Watch out you Lions and Lionettes, too!
“Gaza is one of the poorest, most disadvantaged places in the world. No wonder there’s hatred.”
sis ,
With all of the aid paid to Palestinians why are they so poor? You have it backwards. They are too busy feeling sorry for themselves and hating to build lives. Look at what the Jews accomplished in Israel with a lot less help after having their wealth stolen and being nearly wiped out in Europe.
Read the Hamas Charter, and then come straightfaced to talk to me about “alternatives to perpetual war”: – http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/documents/charter.html
Posted by Tiburon at January 26, 2006 10:44 PM
Shit! Fuck! reading that swill has prompted me to say that north america will never be safe until the muslim religion is no more! The mosques are bastions of hate in our cities and until they are all dead, we will not be safe!
LOL!
I don’t believe in genocide but effective reeducation must be employed. This multiculturalism farce we have in canukistan must be abolished! The first step for a safer society is integrating imigrants into it, instead of marginalizing them. And you know know the first stop of our soon to be increased military will be; Killing Hammas!
Jay,
the thing about the democratic election of Hamas is that it is now more incomprehensible to suggest that Israel can actually have rational discussions with an organization that makes no effort to disguise that they are dedicated to the destruction of Israel. They democratically chose Hamas and that just clears it up for the rest of us what the Arabs are all about. Westerners and many Israelis have tended to portray Fatah as “secular nationalists”, deluding themselves to the fact that with their Al-aqsa martyrs brigades, Fatah is just another terrorist gang. But Westerners and many Israelis used to like to say, “well we can deal with the secular nationalist Fatah, but not Islamic fundamentalists like Hamas”. In reality there is no difference between Fatah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al-Queda etc.
Part of my cure from liberalism was realizing how the left was apologizing for and cozing up to the enemies of Israel. “Oh we can criticize Israel but we are not anti-Jews, we are just anti-Zionists.” Yeah right.
ex-liberal (also a Jew)
Terry-
Bandaids don’t heal deep wounds- Gaza needs basic infrastructure and international investment to re-establish an economy. With the virulent anti-Islamic sentiments ruling the upper echelons of world government and business, this is impossible.
Israel, on the other hand, had the support of the UN and its member nations.
Sis
Kate, why is any criticism of Israel’s policies viewed as anti-Semitic?
Posted by sis at January 26, 2006 10:48 PM
This is not about Jews even tho I don’t like their idealism; this is about a force intent on irradicating a nation in the same way Adolf Hitler has done before! This discontent of jewish interests has to do with the way jews operate; Finantial absolutism. Jewish interests own most of our media because they worked for it and they spew their values because they own it.
I feel you are right about this culture of anti semitism but in contrast, Isreal is under constant threat of irradication to take away the land god promised them in the Bible that the jews don’t believe in. Be a Christian and do gods will for a change.
My remarks re: the tolerance, etc. of the Islamic Caliphates were not about the Koran per se, Tiburon. Just that compared to other civilizations of the time, the Muslims were quite enlightened.
I agree that Islamist parties, be they Sunni or Shia, are most definitely right-wing extemists: their equivalent of the KKK. The difference being that now, far-right extremism is not mainstream in the West(yeah, shut up already moonbats: I know YOU won’t agree).
Jay:
Well of course it’s not in their DNA, silly! I was talking about culture & civilzation, on the presumption that these things are largely taught and learned, actively or passively.
Jose:
Can’t disagree with you, there. Internet and other media will spread freedom…at the very least, the kids will demand it! Until then let’s just try to hold on, survive, go forth & multiply I’m only half-joking here. I’m no Catholic; it’s just that the ‘wacko’ Muslims are breeding like crazy). Perhaps our progeny will one day live in a freer, less hate-filled world.
Actually I oppose any and all minority groups from having a say in our new parliament; this is about Canada and not them, jewish interests included. The only ones who have a right are aboriginals. So the rest of you STFU!
Tiburon – to be fair Muslims brought Europe out of the Dark Ages. That’s not white guilt talking, the historical case is very compelling.
I’ve listed a URL for The Story of Spain. One of the best history books on Spain. There’s a good chunk of it dedicated to Muslim Spain. Ironicaly enough the only good kings Spain ever had were arguably Muslim. And you’ll find many young educated Spaniards who are patriotic but nonetheless have a high opinion of the muslim kings of yore. Strange but true.
Mathematics, medicine, architecture, the beginnings of chemistry, superior metallurgy and animal husbandry and oh the preservation of several thousand volumes of key texts from Rome/Greece.
And no I don’t say that in way of apology of some of the excesses of modern Islam. I’m not sure how relevant it is but it can’t hurt.
Ever wonder what happened to all the Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and Aetheists who populated the Middle East and the ever expanding “Muslim homelands” subsequent to the year 635 AD? If not, you should.
Ever wonder what happened to all the Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and Aetheists who populated the Middle East and the ever expanding “Muslim homelands” subsequent to Mohammad, say 635 AD? If you haven’t, please consider the issue.
“With the virulent anti-Islamic sentiments ruling the upper echelons of world government and business, this is impossible.”
sis,
Virulent? Do you have evidence to support this strange assertion. Who are you referring to? Have you no knowledge of the U.N.’s treatment of Israel as compared with Palestine.
Virulent and yet the leader of the free world doesn’t feel he can call the current war “A Reasoned Response TO Islamofascist Attacks” but instead must call it the “War on Terror”, referring to the tactics of the enemy because it isn’t politically correct to use their name.
Some bright person with time on their hands and good research sklls may be able to post the figures for aid to Palestinians (if known as compared with aid to Israelis but I suggest you are wrong and that if the Palestinians had accepted the reality of Israel they could have paved the roads of Gaza with gold and had money left over for band aids, which they wouldn’t have needed.
Palestine is a failure because you cannot build a nation on hate.
sis
I can’t answer every point you present here…they are (not you), (necessarily), just too benighted to be worthy of serious response.
But regards the death toll. These dead on their side are +90% males, between the ages of 15 and 40. The dead on our side are +80% women and children.
Can you fathom the implications of this, sis?
Are you seriously suggesting that the only ‘justice’ in war is to die equally to the enemy?
BTW, the “Palestinian Authority” and the “Palestinians”, have received more foreign aid per capita than ANY group of people on earth, ever, by an order of magnitude. Check it out, sis. Billions of dollars. From US, Canada, UK, EU, Israel…list goes on.
And somehow, this is OUR fault that they are still living in slums? WE’RE the “root cause”???
Please educate yourself.
Tom:
Odds are they converted at the point of a sword, or were annihilated. Theere can’t be much room for debate over that. The pace of Muslim military expansion in the hundred years after Mohammmed’s death was breathtaking and terrifying.
Affliction
Jewish Media in Canada. Well, hard to argue too forcibly against your point, but it’s unfortunate that those same Jews represent almost to a man/woman the same forces of moral relativism, radical secularism, and social fascistic leftism that are conservativism’s anethma.
Jewish Idealism is a Truth Based Culture, and they aren’t it….
As to the historical contributions of Muslim rule in times past, well, I’ll retreat a bit from my earlier vitriol. Yes, much of what they co-opted was through Conquest, but in relatively brief periods in the last 1400 years, they did act as a force, if not for “human progress”, at least for preservation and elaboration (arabesque) of the legacy of earlier cultures…
It’s not ‘black and white’. And most folk just want to raise their families and be left alone, whoever or wherever they live.
Question remains, short of absolute and total defeat of normative Islamic belief, which the new Pope deems “unreformable” due it’s theological structure, what alternative presents itself?
Affliction,
Islam isn’t incompatible with a humane, tolerant mindset than christianity or judaism. It just so happens that at this point in time there is a dramatic fundementalist upswing in the Muslim world.
Judaism, Christianity and Muslim are all complex and diverse religons. I’m an athiest and I’ve met plenty of solid muslim blokes who I get along with no problems. That being said there’s some muslim types that I wouldn’t get along with. Just as there are some jews and christians with extremist views that I find annoying. (Like the creationists that like to pick fights at parties over evolution).
I’m an secular, athiest leftie. I’ll get along with just about anyone so long as you can carry your end of an interesting and good natured conversation. Burning bushes, space aliens, meteors from space, talking coyotes, gods of field and stream, its all the same to me.
Will there ever be recoginition that strife in the ME predates America? If it were not for the western world (Henry Ford specifically) the ME would still be just a sandbox.
I hope we can create an environment where ME citizens begin directly benefitting from the market created by American ingenuity, instead of hostile totalitarian governments. Where are the “Liberal”, “Socialist” movements for Democratic goverance in the ME? Where do these movements leave “the people” in regards to freedom and power.
Socialists play both sides to their own peril. Do you really believe in freedom, or no?
Tiburon- The hope is that Islam will modernize.
Remember we hear in the west have a massive step up on most of the world on the sophistication of our media, democratic traditions, economies, rights and freedoms and access to travel and information.
Cultures clash, the engage each other in the process they change each other. This is a long slow process. It almost never happens as fast as you’d like but it does happen.
I used to live a block away from a hotel where the IRA tried came very close to assasinating Margaret Thatcher in the 1980s. Now they mostly just smuggle cigarettes.
Jose, it’s beddie-bye for me. Nice thread, not LGF but nice. 😉
I know the ‘goal’ is to see Islam ‘modernize’, problem remaining that moderate Islam is no longer TRUE ISLAM, so it’s essentially like asking Catholics to ignore the Pope, or deny the efficacy of Confession. Not impossible, but not likely, and Catholicism has proven ability to adjust it’s teaching to ‘the Times’. Few indeed are the imams who dare counter the main thrust of Islam’s Imperative: – Dar el Islaam (Umma) versus Dar el Harb (everyone and everwhere else – the House of War.)
oh well. Maybe in the morning someone will have fixed it all…. G’nite all.
Tom Penn- Have you check out Dubai lately? Muslim countries can modernize into useful partners. Most muslims are more interested in improving their standard of living than engaging on a crusade with the west.
That’s how accomodations between cultures happen. It starts with them doing business with one another. Ultimately they have to go beyond oil.
I’m signing off as well. Its been a pleasure talking to you guys. Its nice to talk to people who I don’t agree with in a constructive manner.
I’ve little faith in party poltics. The future of our political development lies in the grassrots of our various political factions engaging each other directly and trying to find some consensus with each other. Stranger things can happen in the blogosphere over the next decade.
So no I’m not a Leftie that is tacking right but I do come in peace.
Interesting references to the great ancient Arab – read Islamic civilizations pre-whenever. What a fucking laugh!! The Arabs never had, and still don�t have the basic IQ that allows them to advance past the level of � eat it, fuck it, or break it! When faced with anything more advance than that they would co-opted the local brains – whether it be Jew or Gentile in the Middle East or Spain. In fact, the Arab only knew one thing and that was how to swing a blade.
The so-called Arab civilizations collapsed when the Jews left the Middle East and settled in Europe, and took their skills with them.
All, yes all, of the Middle East still suffers to this day for the lack of intelligence and needs immigrant workers to do everything for them.
“Socialists play both sides to their own peril. Do you really believe in freedom, or no?”
Socialists believe that what is theirs is theirs and what is yours is theirs and that theft is a virtue.
They also believe that those they attack and steal from, on a daily basis, should defend them from all enemies as they are too busy distributing your money to be occupied with such matters.
I’m afraid the Hamas election victory puts me in mind of something the late Abba Eban once said:
“[The] Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.”
Remember when they sided with Saddam in the First Gulf War?
Chris from Victoria, BC
interesting article, where’s the proof?
why believe Sada, just because he said so
who is this guy anyway?
Sada claims that Saddam shipped his WMD out to Syria IMMEDIATLY before the US invasion in March 2003. that is laughable because all eyes were on Iraq at the time, and remember colin powell’s U.N circus show were they had cartoon drawings of mobile wmd truck’s that turn out to be fabricated intelligence
FACT- after gulf war 1, all the wmd’s were accounted for and destroyed, strick sanctions were in place and U.N. inspectors were in Iraq until the US told them to leave in 1997, yes the US told them to leave, Saddam did not kick them out.
gulf war 2 started in 2002, that leaves a window of oppurtunity for Saddam to make wmd’s from 1997 to 2002 (5 years) under no fly zones and heavy satelite surveilance and no doubt spies
Sada’s allegation is suspicious for one reason, the absolute absence of any credible evidence to support it. don’t you think that the Bush administration would stand by Sada’s allegation and pursue this, Thats why they went to war is it not?
Re: HAMAS
I caught a piece on the news last night that was very unsettling. Has any looked at who they elected as a leader. I didn’t get her name, (I probably wouldn’t hae been able to spell it BUT)
This women had already sent 3 of her own children on suicide missions. She is willing to sacrafic her remaining sons in the name of HAMAS.
This is frick’n scary. We better wake up realize that we are no longer safe any where in this world. Thank GOD the PM Harper is at the helm. He at least will take a calm thoughtful approach to this. Martin and his boys probably would have had a secret allowcation fund to send them money. Saying see, we’re really the good guys!!!
I guess in this crazy world there is some kind of balance. Elect a man with a concience / elect a party in a third world that hate Jews and Americans. (American that does include us!)
Islam will modernize?
what are you guys talking about, do any of you travel outside Canada or north America?
Iraq was one of the most secular nation in the world, it has the internet before the us invaded it,women could vote, christian could pratice there religion, etc
ignorance coupled with uninformed dialect, is very dangerous
religion and anti-semitism
first of all, G-d did not promise the Jews Israel
there are no borders nor nationalism in G-d’s world! We are all G-d’s people.If you are christian you should know this, if you believe that the jews are the chosen people, and only they will be saved, THAN WHY ARE YOU CHRISTIAN?
there are bad jews (zionism) just like there are bad Italians (mobsters), WHAT are all Italians mobsters? no!
and for you that don’t know anything about zionism please check this out, and educate yourself
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/
“Hamas�s charter calls for the destruction of the Jewish state. The group has carried out nearly 60 suicide bombings in Israel since the start of a Palestinian uprising in 2000, killing 430 Israelis. Its triumph in winning 76 seats in the 132-member Palestinian parliament, against 43 for Fatah, represents a huge political change in the Middle East.”
Try having meaningful talks with this group. Where are the moderates?
And keep your eyes on this guy:
“Khaled Mashal, the exiled supreme leader of Hamas and one of Israel’s most wanted men, has signalled his intention to return to the Gaza Strip following the organisation’s landslide victory in the Palestinian parliamentary elections.”
Instead of using Palestinian poverty as part of the problem, remember how many millions of dollars Arafat stole and factor that into the equation. And speaking of Arafat, what he said in English and what he said in Arabic were not the same thing – so be wary.
In the online Times you can see that life for Palestinians will change:
“Many Palestinians feared that the Islamists would stamp their religious code on life by banning alcohol and forcing women to wear the hijab. The only bar in Gaza City selling alcohol was bombed three weeks ago. At Gaza FM, an independent radio station, one presenter, Jayyab Abu Safia, 22, said that he would leave the country because he feared an escalation of the death threats that he and the station�s six other staff have already received from Islamic extremists.
‘Since the result we have switched off the songs and we are going to change all the programmes because they have been condemned by Hamas and Islamic Jihad,� he said.”
If you’re interested in the ME, educate yourself and pray for the peace of Jerusalem.
For someone who mentioned aid to the Jewish state, this is in today’s Times online.
“America and the European Union are heavily involved in day-to-day Palestinian affairs, providing the bulk of the $1 billion (�560 million) given annually in aid to support education, health and other Palestinian development projects. Western diplomats are closely engaged daily in promoting the search for Middle East peace, a foreign policy objective for successive Western governments.”
A billion dollars annually – look for the evidence of it being spent on “education, health and other Palestinian development projects”.
When you find it, please pass it on.
A Conservative Total for U.S. Aid to Israel: $91 Billion�and Counting
how many tanks, missiles, and nuclear warheads
have been bought by the isreali government with that money
When you find it, please pass it on
Although Israel is an “advanced, industrialized, technologically sophisticated country,” it “receives more U.S. aid per capita annually than the total annual [Gross Domestic Product] per capita of several Arab states.” Approximately a third of the entire U.S. foreign aid budget goes to Israel, “even though Israel comprises just�one-thousandth of the world’s total population, and already has one of the world’s higher per capita incomes.”
Some might be interested in these extracts:
“The Hamas Charter: extracts
By Times Online
Below are extracts from the Hamas charter of 1988, the founding document of the Islamist group that yesterday won an outright majority in the Palestinian parliamentary elections:
The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement, 18 August 1988
Preamble
“Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it” (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).
“The Islamic world is on fire. Each of us should pour some water, no matter how little, to extinguish whatever one can without waiting for the others.” (Sheikh Amjad al-Zahawi, of blessed memory).
Introduction
This Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas), clarifies its picture, reveals its identity, outlines its stand, explains its aims, speaks about its hopes, and calls for its support, adoption and joining its ranks.
Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts. It is a step that inevitably should be followed by other steps. The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah’s victory is realised.
Hamas slogan
Allah is its target, the Prophet is its model, the Koran its constitution: Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes. (Article 8)
Peace process
Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement. Abusing any part of Palestine is abuse directed against part of religion. Nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its religion. Its members have been fed on that. For the sake of hoisting the banner of Allah over their homeland they fight. (Article 13)
Duty to fight
It is necessary to instill the spirit of jihad (holy war) in the heart of the nation so that they would confront the enemies and join the ranks of the fighters.
It is necessary that scientists, educators and teachers, information and media people, as well as the educated masses, especially the youth and sheikhs of the Islamic movements, should take part in the operation of awakening (the masses).
It is necessary to instill in the minds of the Muslim generations that the Palestinian problem is a religious problem, and should be dealt with on this basis. (Article 15)
On women
Woman in the home of the fighting family, whether she is a mother or a sister, plays the most important role in looking after the family, rearing the children and embuing them with moral values and thoughts derived from Islam. She has to teach them to perform the religious duties in preparation for the role of fighting awaiting them. That is why it is necessary to pay great attention to schools and the curriculum followed in educating Muslim girls, so that they would grow up to be good mothers, aware of their role in the battle of liberation. (Article 18)
Israel
Our enemy relies on the methods of collective punishment. He has deprived people of their homeland and properties, pursued them in their places of exile and gathering, breaking bones, shooting at women, children and old people, with or without a reason…
In their Nazi treatment, the Jews made no exception for women or children. Their policy of striking fear in the heart is meant for all. They attack people where their breadwinning is concerned, extorting their money and threatening their honour. They deal with people as if they were the worst war criminals. Deportation from the homeland is a kind of murder. (Article 20)
Allies of Israel
For a long time, the enemies have been planning, skillfully and with precision, for the achievement of what they have attained…. With their money, they took control of the world media, news agencies, the press, publishing houses, broadcasting stations, and others. With their money they stirred revolutions in various parts of the world… They were behind the French Revolution, the Communist revolution and most of the revolutions we heard and hear about, here and there. With their money they formed secret societies, such as Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, the Lions and others in different parts of the world for the purpose of sabotaging societies and achieving Zionist interests. (Article 22)
Epilogue
The Islamic Resistance Movement adopts Islam as its way of life. Islam is its creed and religion. Whoever takes Islam as his way of life, be it an organisation, a grouping, a country or any other body, the Islamic Resistance Movement considers itself as their soldiers and nothing more. (Article 36)
Yale Law School
Extracts taken from the translation of the Hamas Covenant 1988 provided by the Avalon Project of Yale Law School.”
Terry:
Too frickin funny, dude!
“Truth” seeker – you really are an ignoramus.
So…the Saddam Baathists sounded pretty good to you, eh? I guess no amount of video footage of people being thrown off buildings will change your mind. Or gang rapes of daughters & wives while family is forced to watch, no amount ofchildren being tortured, stung by bees and scorpions in front of parents…..all things that have been substantiated….will change your mind.
Here are some other great places you might want to visit, O Truthful One:
Cuba – nice weather! Everyone has healthcare, education & employment. Just don’t speak out against the ruling gang, or be gay, or belong to an independent union;
North Korea – another fab place, ditto re: full employment et al..;
Zimbabwe – again, more of the same, just don’t be a cracker;
China – well what can I say about the place that executes alomst as many people each day as Texas does in a year, for things like tax evasion, no less. Ruled by and for the People, nonetheless;
Syria – more of that modernist Baathism we all so crave and enjoy. Never pokes its finger into neighbouring countries’ affairs. Wonder if they have Baath-houses?
Need I go on, MORON?!?
EPW
Truthseeker,
I gave the amt of Palestinian aid. If you want to see the amt of aid the U.S. gives to other Arab countries, you could begin with Egypt. Their success makes it legitimate to ask where the Palestinian funds have gone, and why their lives haven’t improved. Anyone genuinely interested in the Palestinians should be looking for answers.
Israel spends huge sums of money on protection, not aggression, and Hamas uses suicide bombers – much more cost effective. So why are they poor and suffering?
“Working Together For Egypt:
A Prosperous Country, A Prosperous People
For the past 28 years, the United States and Egypt collaborated closely as partners in economic development. The two countries built a strong and productive relationship, one that has resulted in an impressive legacy of major achievements. This partnership paves the way for a continuation of social and economic progress in future years.
Millions of Egyptian citizens, men and women, in all parts of the country and of all ages, enjoy a higher quality of life as a result of the many programs initiated by the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) in conjunction with the Government of Egypt. All sectors of the economy, from agriculture, business, infrastructure, tourism, health, education, and the environment, have benefited from the cooperative efforts of the two countries and from the $25.6 billion in assistance resources that have been devoted to these efforts.
In 1975, the governments of the United States and Egypt set a course to meet several far-ranging challenges. Today, Egypt has a growing market-oriented economy, a healthier and more educated population. The country enjoys more productive and efficient agriculture, cleaner water for its people, and advanced electrical and telecommunications facilities.
Such achievements are important and Egypt continues to advance; however, much work remains to be done. The United States remains deeply committed to the partnership of our two countries as our relationship evolves from one based on aid to one rooted in trade and investment.”
From http://www.usaid-eg.org
ignoramus?
In the mid-1980s the Reagan administration sent current U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to meet with Saddam Hussein
knowing full well what kind of monster saddam was, the us was iraq’s allie during the iraq iran war, the us knew that saddam gassed the kurds, but remained a strong allie, until saddam invaded kuwait, then all of a sudden he’s a ba guy
WAKE UP , EVIL PRINCESS
Truth Seeker:
Here’s some for you. (Truth)
1) Sada’s book is not the only evidence that Saddam disposed of his WMD. It’s just the latest piece of evidence. I’m not fully convinced myself but the balance of probability is that he did hide materiele.
2) U.S. aid to Israel is given specifically because whatever it’s GDP per capita, Israel is still a geographically minute country of 5 million surrounded by 100s of millions of enemies. Israel’s military budget is roughly the same as Canada’s. Saudi Arabia spends double what Israel does.
Comparing humanitarian aid to the Palestinians to military aid for Israel is an argument from Democratic Underground. It does not belong at SDA.
Again, to Truthseeker:
This one will be the last, but you will most likely be interested in the U.S. aid to Jordan:
“As part of a five-year Middle East peace and stability fund announced by the Clinton administration in 1997, both Egypt and Israel agreed to the diversion of $50 million from each of their respective aid programs in 1997 and 1998 to augment economic aid funds available to Jordan.
That brought U.S. economic aid to Jordan to $112 million in 1997 and $150 million in 1998, and total aid for Jordan for those years to $152 million and $228 million respectively (including military aid).
Since then, U.S. aid stabilized at $150 million in economic assistance, $75 million in foreign military financing and $1.6 million in international military education and training.
In 2003, however, the Bush administration sought to double the U.S. aid to Jordan in view of its support for the “War on Terror.” In October 2000, Jordan and the U.S. signed a free trade agreement, the third for the U.S. and its first with an Arab state, which eliminates duties and commercial barriers to bilateral trade in goods and services originating in the two countries.
Jordanian ‘anger’
Great political and economic ties between Jordan and the U.S., however, do not reflect the mood in the Jordanian street.
Because of American support for Israel � perhaps half the Jordanian population originates from Palestine � and the anger at what happened in Iraq, the Jordanians find themselves filled with deep anger at American policies.
That anger was reflected in several violent acts against U.S. diplomats and local police.
Though the Jordanian government has described them as “isolated incidents,” these were signs of resentment of U.S. policies in the region, and this anger cannot be mended by free trade agreements or direct economic assistance.
Whether that will change with more American involvement in implementing the road map remains to be seen.”
From cbc – What the World Thinks of America.
greenmamba
1) Sada’s book is not the only evidence that Saddam disposed of his WMD. It’s just the latest piece of evidence.
ok, where is the other evidence? what evidence?and since when is writting a book evidence?
gellen, I have a question for you
do you believe the war in Iraq is a war on terror? and if so, why?
truther seeker “Iraq was one of the most secular nation in the world, it has the internet before the us invaded it,women could vote, christian could pratice there religion, etc ”
I happen to live in one of the most secular countries in the world. The criteria you list may have earned a country Most Secular Status in 1910 but the yardstick has changed since then.
In the most secular countries you see
-same sex and interacial couples kissing in public.
-houses of worship gathering cobwebs.
-old secretarian sentiment evaporating
-heterosexual couples opting not to get married.
-homosexual couples opting to get married
Jose
I’m not sure I understand your last post
my definition of secular: is modern, civil and a clear division between church and state
what is you’re definition of secular?
U.N.: Iraq had no WMD after 1994
http://thinkprogress.org/2005/12/23/novak-had-better-sources-than-bush-on-iraq/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6190720/
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-03-02-un-wmd_x.htm
who is this Sada individual?
Truthseeker,
As a Christian who tries to keep on top of things, I was as conflicted about the war on Iraq as most people.
I would not have gone to war with Iraq, but that doesn’t make me right. Once the U.S. did go to war, I supported them because defeat was unthinkable for everyone – the Iraqi people most of all.
My interest in the two world wars (one book written and one being written)makes me view world events closely. No one wants us to go down that road again, but we underestimated Hitler and have to be vigilant. Anti-semitism is on the rise and must be stamped out before we’re all drawn into another war.
I’m so proud of the two generations who fought in the first and second world wars, and proud of the men and women serving in the military now. They knew they were fighting a cause worth dying for – but my dream is that we can dialogue with each other to solve our problems. I say ‘my dream’ becaue I’m pragmatic enough to know that the forces against peace are not interested in dialogue. Which is why I say, be informed, and pray for the peace of Jerusalem.
gellen
well you didn’t answer the question , if you think the war in Iraq is a war on terror?
“No one wants us to go down that road again, but we underestimated Hitler and have to be vigilant”
Hitler was elected democratically, then proceed to take absolute power by burning the Reichstag and blaming it on the terrorist, and proceed to pass his version of the patriot act,
Yes we have to be vigilant; I strongly encourage watching these videos, with your own eyes and your common sense
http://1984videos.com/
http://www.hugequestions.com/
there is no room for anti-semitism or hatred of all other people, just because they are different,
lets pray for peace for the whole world, not just Jerusalem
Truth Seeker: ok, where is the other evidence? what evidence?and since when is writting a book evidence?
A fair question but I’m simply saying I’ve come across a fair number of consistent stories over the past 3 years but I don’t have time to collate them at the moment. I would be prepared to do so except that you said, there are bad jews (zionism). This puts you in that particular category where there is no rational discussion possible.
Sorry.
greenmamba
don’t worry about looking them up, I’m sure if there was any truth behind them stories, the Bush administration would have known about it
“This puts you in that particular category where there is no rational discussion possible”
are you suggesting that I’m anti-semitic?
So all Jews are rightious, not one could be bad, not one in the whole history of the world!
So all christians are rightious, not one could be bad, not in the whole history of the world
How does that make any sense to you?
If I were to tell you I was a Jew, then what?
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/