Hamas may have won the Palestinian elections, which may in turn make Benjamin Netanyahu the next Prime Minister of Israel. CNN is now reporting that the current Palestinian government has resigned. The election of Hamas taken together with the crisis in Iran suggests that that the world is being challenged by very deeply rooted forces which traditional international institutions may be incapable of handling. The way to safety hangs on events that haven’t resolved themselves yet. Whether the policy of democraticization has blunted the rush to madness — Egyptian blogger the Big Pharaoah thinks Middle East democracy boosts Islamists; whether Iran will acquire the bomb; whether Israel will draw its sword to prevent it; whether Syria’s ruling dynasty will fall; whether Europe will break out of its demographic death-spiral. Because success relies so much on the exploitation of contingent events it’s a dangerous time for America to be divided, with one side unsure of whether any real danger besides BushchimpHitler exists and the other in the grip of a half-articulated policy; both almost fatalistically slouching towards a
future where there are no certain or even probable endings.
Just beneath the surface of many self-described Canadian “progressives”, (not to mention a few of those new “metropolitan” opposition MP’s) runs a strong and virulent anti-Israeli current.
That surface is about to be scratched. Watch what happens.
greenmamba
Do you believe in the Bible?
Revelation 2-3
To the church in Philadelphia
9- I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars.
WOW Jesus was an anti-Semite, who knew?
Sarcasm
Truthseeker- Wiki Secularism for a more indepth answer than the one I’m going to give you here.
Here’s an excerpt from Wiki “Secularism is a code of duty pertaining to this life, founded on considerations purely human, and intended mainly for those who find theology indefinite or inadequate, unreliable or unbelievable. Its essential principles are three: (1) The improvement of this life by material means. (2) That science is the available Providence of man.”
Iraq even at its most secular was a full generation behind Europe. We’ve gone well beyond wether or not women can vote and hold jobs. The bleeding edge of secularism now is gay rights.
TS:
I didn’t say anti-Semitic. You inferred that Zionists are bad Jews. Given that Zionism is a movement that believes Jews should have a nation state, you are saying that Jews who want to have to have a nation state are bad.
This is asinine. Ther are many nation states on Earth but only in the case of the Jewish one is its existence up for discussion. It’s preposterous. Add to this that the establishment of Israel gained support after it was finally realised that Jews have historically been picked on and killed off everywhere they have tried to live. To deny them Israel is to say that they just have to put up with pogroms.
(You may well be a Jew. There are many with self destructive ideas. It’s just one of the characteristics that makes Jews as a whole NOT a threat when they live in diasporan societies.
In any case your religion is irrelevant to me.)
The bleeding edge of secularism now is gay rights
maybe, but that is a debate that pertain
to the division of church and state not neccessarly secularism, that maybe your interpratation
Iraq, was a devoloped pro western nation by western standards before the first gulf war in 1991
Iraq was an allie of the US. in the 1980’s, before and after Saddam gassed the kurds, before and after the Iran Iraq war, and they knew full well how evil Saddam was at the time, his atrocities were fully documented by the world press
One of the strengths of the Jewish community is that, for the most part, we don’t try to define our political values in terms of religious fundamentalism, other than a few minor parties in Israel. One of the reasons we’re an enlightened society (both the state of Israel and the Jewish community in diaspora) is that we’re all over the map politically and tolerant of ideas. Alberta, on the other hand… (Just having some fun.)
“There are many nation states on Earth but only in the case of the Jewish one is its existence up for discussion”
Maybe it is because of the way the state of Israel was created.If the chinese were to come to Canada and start relocating Canadians and started taking over Canadian territory and occupying us, how would you feel?yet thats what happen in 1947 after ww2
the state of Israel exist and thats that, now is the time to look for peaceful solutions so that the palestinians and isrealis can co existe peacefully
zionism like most political ideologies are more complexe as to just the creation of a nation state
From Wikipedia
Similarly, anti-Zionism as a political movement often is interpreted improperly as antisemitism.
TS: yes, Israel was created differently. It started off with the land being BOUGHT! (At premium prices.) There is nothing worse about the way Israel was created than any number of countries.
greenmamba
so if north american indians start buying there land back with the money they make off casinos lets say, and begin relocating canadians, and occuping Canadians that’s ok, because it was there land before we got here
greenmamba
you are much more articulate than I, we seem to agree to disagree on certain issues, you are an educated person, how would you resolve the palestinian israelis situation?
Sorry, TS, I missed that. Do I think the war in Iraq is/was a war on terror? No. But, I’m not sure why that is significant.
Yes, the majority of Germans voted in Hitler and his regime, and the world lived to regret the fact that no one read Mein Kampf with any understanding and heeded the warnings which were there for all to see.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and we learn from history or (as they say) we repeat it.
BTW, TS, I pray for all the countries of the world, and pray for the peace of Jerusalem that all the nations of the world are not drawn into another war.
Arafat is dead, but the Palestinian goals are the same unless a leader arises who is a bit more temperate in their view of the right of Israel and Jews to exist. In his own words:
“The jihad will continue … You have to understand our main battle is Jerusalem … It is not their capitol. It is our capitol.”
�Arafat speech in Johannesburg, South Africa, May 1994
“By Allah, I swear … that the Palestinian people are prepared to sacrifice the last boy and the last girl so that the Palestinian flag will be flown over the walls, the churches and the mosques of Jerusalem.”
Oh, bah, all of you…the question is, how much of our information can we trust?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4655196.stm
Just for a change of pace.
gellen
Do I think the war in Iraq is/was a war on terror? No. But, I’m not sure why that is significant.
I think it’s significant because most americans believe it is, thanks to the western media propaganda.
osama bin laden is still running around and bush decided to attack iraq
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and we learn from history or (as they say) we repeat it.
we are repeating it today, I believe we are at the beginning stages of world war 4.
At the end of that very day 9/11, President Bush reportedly wrote in his diary: “The
Pearl Harbor of the 21st century took place today
that is greatly important, because pearl harbour is what caused the americans to enter ww2, so in fact Bush is saying ww4 has begun (ww3 cold war)
and yet iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, and osama bin laden is still running loose, and most americans and canadians think that all 1.2 billion muslims are terrorist
TruthS: been called away to taxi kids. We’ll have to continue another time. The problem is when one’s ideology causes one to filter facts to suit. I came by my views honestly after research and choosing the more probable over the improbable.
(PS: I can help yo with your views on the Iraq War too.)
truth seeker – I’m curious as to how you define “ally”. For example, one would certainly consider Britain, Austraila, Canada (yes!), etc. to be allies of the U.S. However, there have always been 3rd-party countries that the U.S. has given aid to, to further particular aims, but neither side was/is under the mistaken impression that they were “allies”. Palahvian Iran was considered an American ally (with all its faults), but that ended with the revolution. In the ’80’s everyone was clear that the U.S. was “using” Iraq to get at Iran, and that Saddam was very happy to be so “used” and accept U.S. aid. But just because the U.S. gives aid, does not make the aid recipient our ally. (See, for example, Egypt. Our great ally. Ha hahahahaha! Oh, that makes me laugh. Thanks.) Plus the fact, that, um, we were also giving some arms to Iran.
As Henry Kissinger said back then, “It’s too bad they can’t both lose.” Not for the people of the region, who suffered terribly, but their disgusting, tyrranical governments.
Meg Q
ok so the U.S and Iraq were not allies, in the traditional sense of the word.
tell me why was Saddam labeled a bad guy after gulf war one, but was best friends (not ally) with the U.S.way back when the cia helped put saddam in power in 1963, supported saddam against the iranians, supported saddam when he gassed the kurds, supported saddam when he gassed the iranians, supported saddam when he was torturing his own people, but all of a sudden
he’s a bad guy
greenmamba
“We’ll have to continue another time.” yes looking forward to it, it’s been fun
“The problem is when one’s ideology causes one to filter facts to suit.” can’t agree with you more
“I came by my views honestly after research and choosing the more probable over the improbable.”
funny, so did I, and still do
(PS: I can help yo with your views on the Iraq War too.)
I may have to choose my words more carefuly in the future regarding zionism
(will research some more), but I can assure you my views on Iraq are correct, and 9/11 as well)
if you haven’t done so you have to watch these videos
http://www.hugequestions.com/
http://1984videos.com/
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/northwoods.html
Jordan is a state of Arabs from the British Mandate for Palestine. Before 1967 the only people who called themselves Palestinians were Jews. Between 1948 and 1967 when Jordan held the West Bank and Egypt held the Gaza strip, no one on the planet was calling for the establishment of a state of Palestine on these lands. These are not “opinions” – they are just simply facts – look it up yourself. If the Arabs of British Mandated Palestine had accepted the partitiion plan of 1947, they would be celebrating the 58th year of their own state.
http://www.palestinefacts.org/
seems interesting ex-liberal
I will look it up, but tell me, how could they be celebrating the 58 year of there own state, if they didn’t call themselves palestinians and they weren’t calling for the establishment of a state of Palestine on these lands?
The Arabs referred to this area as southern Syria I think. Do you know what the partition plan of 1947 was? Palestine is just a name the Romans gave to the area after they put down the Jewish revolt. They did not want to refer to it as Judaea (a name that appeared on maps)and to discourage the Jews who had just waged a rebellion against them, they renamed the area after the Jews great enemy from the time of King David -the Philistines. Hebrew is the indigenous language of this area. This is the place on the planet where Hebrew originated. Arabic is the language of the Arabian peninsula. When the UN was determining who were Arab refugees are the war in 1947, they had to redefine the term refugee to mean “anyone who had lived in the area for 2 years”.
ok, I’m not sure where you going with this, but if the zionist movement to colonize that stripe of land in the ottoman empire known as southern Syria (today’s israel), that means if there was no palestine, there was no israel either.
Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were displaced and in 1948 Israel came into being.
several wars were fought involving Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon after 1948, and these arab states lost territory to Israel, and Palestinians in the West Bank, including east Jerusalem, have lived under Israeli occupation since 1967
and Israel evacuated its settlers from the Gaza Strip in 2005 and withdrew its forces, ending almost four decades of military occupation
When Mark Twain travelled through the area in the 1800s he reports that the area was desolate and with hardly any inhabitants. There has been a continuous if small Jewish presence since the time the Romans destroyed the second Temple in 70 AD. Jews had been there for at least 1000 years before that. The number of Arabs in the area greatly increased when they migrated in in the late 1800s early 1900s to take advantage of the job opportunities opening up as returning Jews started to clear the swamps, build roads, towns, etc. Do you know anything about the British Mandate? Jews did not steal the land from some ancient Arab society that had been there from time immemorial. Do you know there were 800,000 Jewish refugees from Arab countries in 1947?
Where would you like to go with this?
ex-liberal
keep in mind that nationalism is new, there were no Canadians 250 years ago, in fact countries only came into being (with borders)apx 300 years ago,
before the rule of law, man had kings and queens and empires. ex the roman empire included much of europe but there was no france, germany or british back then, rome is a city there was no italy either, thus the roman empire
so when you say “Before 1967 the only people who called themselves Palestinians were Jews” that is simply not true
there were and are people living in that part of the world and they were displaced.
what the world isn’t big enough they had to displace them and occupy them?of course there enough land for everybody on earth, the creation of Israel is also a religious issue not just a political issue
Israel has been a nation,and been aware of itself as a nation, for some 3500 years. Check the UN records, there is no discussion of “Palestinians” before 1967 – just Arabs and Jews. The Israeli Philharmonic Orchestra used to be the Palestinian Philharmonic Orchestra, the Jerusalem Post used to be called the Palestinian Post. In 1947 Jews asked their Arab neighbours not to run away before the invading Arab armies.
Israel has been a nation,and been aware of itself as a nation, for some 3500 years.
ok, where in the bible does it say “nation of Israel”
what are it’s borders
I never knew G-d created borders, I always thought man created borders
Oct 1922
First British census of Palestine shows total population of 757,182 (11% Jewish).
Nov 18 1931
Second British census of Palestine shows total population of 1,035,154 (16.9% Jewish).
yep, just swamp water and rocks
gellen, I doubt you might still be reading this but I’d like to say thanks for the thoughtful bits. With what is filtered through the MSM and the foreign offices of other nations, it is easy for some to think they know what is going on.
I still hope that power acts as a moderating influence on Hamas and that they are finally faced with mounting international pressure as was suggested over the past 48 hours or so. This was pressure they were never accountable to as a terror organization that ran in the shadows.
Perhaps now many pro-Palestinians will see the violence even between Fatah and Hamas and thereby conclude that a lasting peace 1) won’t be easy and 2) requires that pressure is kept up on Hamas to act in good faith.
In 1844 – when the Land of Israel was controlled by the Turkish Muslims – the Turkish census counted 7,120 Jews and 5,000 Muslims living in Jerusalem.
Take note of how few people lived in Jerusalem in 1844.
Jerusalem had a very small population because the Land of Israel as a whole was mostly uninhabited until the Jews started to return in larger numbers in 1870.
Israel’s interior areas were mainly a desert-like wasteland while her coast was a malaria-ridden swamp.
Not opinions, just facts
ex liberal
Not opinions, just facts
ok, post a link to a reliable source please
and enlighten me
*fyi, I do recongnize the state of israel, despite the fact that hundred of thousands of arabs/palestinians (people who lived under the ottoman empire)and our now scattered in syria, lebanon, egypt and other places
http://www.coastalpost.com/98/4/5.htm
Time to shut up now, truth seeker, we’ve heard all your Michael Moore/New Left shit before.
Evil Princess of Doom
…and no-one except sis is buying it!
EPOD
no need to buy it, it’s free 🙂
I have yet to read anyone providing me with facts of to what i’ve been saying regarding Iraq and 9/11 not to be true
if people wish to live there lives in ignorance and prefer lala land, then so be it
and as for me being a liberal!
I gave up be played as a pond in the grand chess board of life by our so called leaders, I read, listen, research and think for myself, I don’t need this fake (left vs right) WWF mumbo jumbo
thats being played by our political parties and telling us how to think and what to say
pond = pawn
haha that’s funny
World Wildlife Fund?
Yes, you are a pond of the insidious, lurking Left. A filthy, scummy one whose surface (and depths) badly need a new filtration system.
As the guy in Spinal Tap says, “(You) are one of those people who believes everything he reads” as long as Numb Chimpsky, Margaret Atwood(enhead), Mickey Moore or those Klein weirdos write it.
yes.this is my site http://polpopa.w.interia.pl/42.html http://polpopa.w.interia.pl/19.html http://polpopa.w.interia.pl/11.html http://polpopa.w.interia.pl/12.html http://polpopa.w.interia.pl/46.html http://polpopa.w.interia.pl/5.html http://polpopa.w.interia.pl/33.html http://polpopa.w.interia.pl/38.html Thanks.