Negotiation Styles

Tough talk from Australia;

Anyone wanting to live under Islamic law (shari’a) might feel more comfortable living in countries where it is applied, such as Saudi Arabia or Iran, federal Treasurer Peter Costello said in an address to the Sydney Institute, a think tank.
In a pledge of allegiance, immigrants taking on Australian citizenship declare: “I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its people, whose democratic beliefs I share, whose rights and liberties I respect and whose laws I will uphold and obey.”
Costello said that anyone “who does not acknowledge the supremacy of civil law laid down by democratic processes cannot truthfully take the pledge of allegiance. As such they do not meet the pre-condition for citizenship.”
Any Muslim planning to immigrate to Australia should first consider its values.
“Before entering a mosque visitors are asked to take off their shoes,” Costello said. “This is a sign of respect. If you have a strong objection to walking in your socks don’t enter the mosque.
“Before becoming an Australian you will be asked to subscribe to certain values. If you have strong objection to those values, don’t come to Australia.”

Someone is finally getting to the point.
When the concept of a “multicultural” society was presented first to Canadians, the majority took it to mean more pavilions at Folkfest.
After all, no matter what our race, heritage and family history may be- the vast majority of those living in the west share the same culture. Culture isn’t dressing up in a kilt once a year, or celebrating Ukranian Christmas. It’s climbing in your Dodge Caravan, popping in a Red Hot Chili Peppers CD on the way to pick up the kids from hockey or soccer or band practice. It’s heating up a frozen pizza and flipping the channels to find CNN or Jeopardy.
Behind all the feel-good pap we’re fed about the Canadian “mosaic”, there is an unpleasant, politically incorrect reality that must always be made clear. There are cultures and religious practices that are structurally incompatable with a liberal democracy – not the least of these is threatening violence towards those who mock or criticize your religious beliefs.
Western democracies cannot make concessions on these points – even minor ones – without destabilizing and eroding our rights and freedoms. That’s what “incompatable” means – the two cannot coexist without one giving up ground on its fundamental principles.
In contrast, we have this troubling quote from Vatican Secretary of State, Cardinal Angelo Sodano. If this is what the Vatican means by “taking a stand”, perhaps they should quit while we’re only a little behind…

“If we tell our people they have no right to offend, we have to tell the others they have no right to destroy us,”

Worded differently – “If we tell our people they have the right to offend, you have the right to destroy us.”
Apparently, it hasn’t occurred to Cardinal Sodano that when someone believes they are entitled to destroy you in response to being offended, you’re not being offered a say in who has what rights.
With Cardinals like this, who needs Imams?

104 Replies to “Negotiation Styles”

  1. Costello has it absolutely correct. Not just Muslims should be targeted though–there are many groups migrating around the world that expect the country they immigrate to to bow down and allow them to live the way they did in thi=eir former land. Canada has been a ‘leader’ in this mentality–a sad fact that has done nothing more than change Canada into a non-country without a culture. We have been so socially engineered to bow down before other cultures etc. that we have lost sight of who we are. Wish Costello was a Canadian–wish there was a Canadian who had the courage to face down the politically correct crap we have been force fed over the last decade. Bravo Mr. Costello

  2. I agree that there are practices incompatible with liberal democratic traditions. These include the unthinking patriotic nationalism fostered by political leaders like John Howard of Australia, who has also shown neglect for the UN Charter, international humanitarian law, the Geneva conventions and rights of due process.

  3. That’s your opinion. If it is as bad as you claim and you were an Aussie, you would be in the Gulag. Well, are you (they)? Of course not. They get to gripe as long, loud and bitterly as they choose.
    Leftists today believe if you do not share their opinion, you need shouted down, demonized and eventually, run out of the country, except if you’re Musilm, then “please, how far and long do I bend over Ahmed?”
    How’s your Arabic, Stephen?

  4. You say:
    “If we tell our people they have no right to offend, we have to tell others they have no right to destroy us,”
    Worded differently -“If we tell our people they have the right to offend, you have the right to destroy us.”
    But that’s not right–the latter statement isn’t logically equivalent to the former. Here’s what an equivalent statement, worded differently would look like:
    “If we tell others they have the right to destroy us, we can tell our people they have the right to offend.”

  5. ‘How’s your Arabic, Stephen?’
    Better than your logic, Doug. Thanks for asking.
    By the way, where did the Gulags, demonization and being ‘run of of the country’ come from? I don’t recall posting anything of the sort.

  6. So then, how do you say:
    “Oh Infidel, Stephen, bend over and pick up that pencil, in the name of Allah, until new camel comes home.”
    in Arabic?
    or
    “From now on, no more CBC, just Al Jezeerah”
    or
    “We’re not burning Christians, homosexuals, communists, lesibians and other multi-culti-worhippers, it’s just an alternative fuel source.”

  7. Well, here we have cowardly leftist appeasers like Paul Martin. In a statement issued January 11, 2006 to Muslims celebrating Eid Ul-Adha he proclaims, “Muslim values are Canadian values…” According to Martin these values that Muslims and Canadians apparently share are multiculturalism, freedom, tolerance and the equality of every person. If he wasn’t the PM at the time and so serious, this would be laughable.
    These leftist Canadian politicians are a danger to society because they’re just so damn ignorant.

  8. “In contrast, we have this troubling quote from Vatican Secretary of State,…Worded differently – “If we tell our people they have the right to offend, you have the right to destroy us.”…If this is what the Vatican means by “taking a stand”
    I don’t think that’s a fair or accurate comment. The title of the article you link to is “Vatican to Muslims: practice what you preach”; this seems very much in line with what Australia is asking, and not in contrast.
    Yes, it’s not the most strongly worded comment, but it’s only one comment out of several in the article and isn’t refelctive of the article itself nor the Vatican’s overall response; maybe you just read it quickly?
    As a conservative I’ve never been more impressed with the Vatican and I think a few more quotes from the article would be helpful in adding context:

    “Enough now with this turning the other cheek! It’s our duty to protect ourselves,”
    Monsignor Velasio De Paolis, secretary of the Vatican’s supreme court, thundered in the daily La Stampa. Jesus told his followers to “turn the other cheek” when struck.
    “The West has had relations with the Arab countries for half a century, mostly for oil, and has not been able to get the slightest concession on human rights,” he said.
    Bishop Rino Fisichella, head of one of the Roman universities that train young priests from around the world, told Corriere della Sera the Vatican should speak out more.

    “Let’s drop this diplomatic silence,”
    said the rector of the Pontifical Lateran University. “We should put pressure on international organizations to make the societies and states in majority Muslim countries face up to their responsibilities.”
    ************************
    The Pope is leading the way on this issue and Western Civilization should be bloody grateful to have a man of his intellect and character leading the fight.

  9. Oops.
    On reading Doug’s witty riposte, I realize I’ve made a mistake.
    My Arabic is not better than Doug’s logic.
    Rather, it would be more correct to say that my (non-existent) Arabic is better than better than Doug’s (non-existent) logic, taste and sense of humour combined.

  10. The point I feel compelling, is that any religion that follows the teachings of Christ (which includes the muslims who feel he is an important prophet)should stay out of politics. Jesus himself(and I am paraphrasing) told Pilate that his “Kingdom was no part of this world.”
    Interestingly, his first century followers took that to mean they wouldn’t hold political office, nor would they take sides politically.
    The other side of the coin is this meant they weren’t popular with the Romans and ended up in the gladitorial games.

  11. For all you avid Multicultists out there, I offer the wisdom of Philip K. Dick…
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away.”
    Or loosely paraphrasing… If you don’t get your head out your collective ass’ before it’s too late, you’ll be stuck with the consequences. Two words… French toast.

  12. Socialists/communists hate & loathe nationalism.
    Nationalism is anathema to their “monstrous fiction” of “equality”.
    John Howard personifies the nationalism of Australia.
    Go, John Howard. +
    PART ONE OF this article (Vanguard N0.51)outlined five of Edmund Burke’s ideas which are of relevance to nationalism.
    These were: that man is tied to a family, locality and nation;
    that society is organic rather than mechanistic;
    that the past, present and future are linked;
    that as a nation we must put our own people first;
    and that equality, like most abstract doctrines, is “a monstrous fiction”.
    These points were all fundamental to Burke’s world view. +
    http://www.bigeye.com/burke2.htm

  13. “who has also shown neglect for the UN Charter, international humanitarian law, the Geneva conventions and rights of due process”
    Why bring Kofi “I lined my pockets with Oil Scam Money” Annan into this discussion.
    this is about some common sense Aussie idea.

  14. Aussie!Aussie!Aussie!…Oi!Oi!Oi! Gawd I love that country! Hearing from my friends down there, and from the time I’ve spent there, they are very much like we were… 30 yrs ago. Before the great Liberal “multi-cultural force-feeding”.They aren’t afraid of turning boatloads of illegal immigrants back to sea either. Can we clone Costello and install him here as Immigration MP? :)))

  15. Amen and Hallelujah, if I may use such exclusionary language.
    Tolerance seems to have snuck onto the moral podium, masquerading as the ultimate societal value. But if I have to surrender MY rights so that you may exercise yours, we are no longer conversing in the realm of moral values. We are dealing instead with nothing more than accommodation or appeasement, a practical transaction perhaps, but utterly without moral overtones, in fact distinctly immoral if coercion or threats are involved. Tolerance is not a moral value.
    “If you have a strong objection to those values, don’t come here.” Makes sense, Mr. Costello. “Surrender your culture and accept an inferior one in the name of tolerance” doesn’t have the same appeal, does it? But who has the guts to call it inferior?

  16. Gawd, it is so refreshing to hear from politicians like the Aussies who apparently haven’t yet been gelded and transformed into Liberals.
    Every visit I make to Australia feels like I’m stepping back into the Canada that used to be, before our country was overtaken by a seemingly unending chorus of politically correct whiners seeking more and more from the state instead of getting off their collectivist asses and actually creating something. And, all the while, bleating incessantly about those bad old Americans.
    And as for the UN charter Stephen, you can just stick that up your…oops, better not, our health care system sucks. Man, that charter sure worked in Rwanda, or Zimbabwe, or Bosnia, didn’t it?
    And as for “international humanitarian law”, is that the same law promoted in the aforesaid countries, or Saddam’s Iraq, or Iran? If so, the success was breath-taking, wasn’t it?

  17. Maz2: “…that as a nation we must put our own people first;”
    Somewhere along the line, the “natural governing party” missed this point. As time ticks by, we seem to be powerless to stop the wholesale dismissal of our heritage and our culture… just to appease new arrivals. There is nothing wrong with absorbing positive elements of other cultures, but NOT at the expense of our own. Now with a shortage of skilled labour, we face the prospect of wholesale immigration. Not a bad thing if it’s done right. What I am afraid of is the govt’s “lowering the bar” just to get people here. Their track record over the last 20-30 yrs hasn’t exactly been stelllar. Seems they’ve missed the point of “…that as a nation we must put our own people first;”! Thanks for that Maz!
    Cheers

  18. The President of the Christian Association in Nigeria issued the following statement:
    a. From all indications, it is very clear now that the sacrifices of the Christians in this country for peaceful co-existence with people of other faiths has been sadly misunderstood to be weakness
    b. We have for a long time now watched helplessly the killing, maiming and destruction of Christians and their property by Muslim fanatics and fundamentalists at the slightest or no provocation at all. We are not unaware of the fact that these religious extremists have the full backup and support of some influential Muslims who are yet to appreciate the value of peaceful co-existence.
    c. That an incident in far away Denmark which does not claim to be representing Christianity could elicit such an unfortunate reaction here in Nigeria, leading to the destruction of Christian Churches, is not only embarrassing, but also disturbing and unfortunate.
    d. It is no longer a hidden fact that a long standing agenda to make this Nigeria an Islamic nation is being surreptitiously pursued. The willingness of Muslim Youth to descend with violence on the innocent Christians from time to time is from all intents and purposes a design to actualize their dream.
    2) a. It is sad to note that all acts of hostility meted against Christians by Muslims in the past have remained unaddressed with nobody paying compensations or the culprits brought to justice.
    b. We do appreciate the fact that at this stage of our national development, peace is absolutely necessary for realizing our dreams and aspirations. It is in view of this that Christians in Nigeria agreed to participate in the forthcoming National Census as sacrifice for the peace and progress of this nation, in spite of our protest over the non-inclusion of Religion and Ethnicity as necessary demographic data.
    c. May we at this stage remind our Muslim brothers that they do not have the monopoly of violence in this nation. Nigeria belongs to all of us � Christians, Muslims and members of other faiths. No amount of intimidation can Change this time-honoured arrangement in this nation. C.A.N. may no longer be able to contain our restive youths should this ugly trend continue.

  19. Good one, Kate, especially the “means more pavillions at Folkfest”.
    “Before becoming an Australian you will be asked to subscribe to certain values. If you have strong objection to those values, don’t come to Australia.”
    Right on.
    The point missed by the multi-culti leftists brainwashed by their own tyrannical pc rules. They’ve failed to notice, because of their own superficiality, that superficial immigrants refusing to participate in a secular democratic society are their undoing.
    If you resist our culture, democratic politics and cherished love of free speech, then you need to leave NOW. If an economic motive is your only reason for living among us, then you need to leave NOW. If the Imam rather than the ballot box is the force governing your civil obedience, you need to have left YESTERDAY.
    The immigrants of my grandfather’s era embraced America’s values and opportunities. The Dems/Libs game of hyphenated Americans/Canadians is the underpinning of this folly. You no longer need to assimilate is the message.
    The craven leftist elites on campuses and in the media immediately after 9/11 sneered at the proliferation of US flags.
    The WOT is two front – the jihadists and their useful idiots on the Left.

  20. Snookie:
    Lowering the bar? We have immigrants with PHD’s driving taxis, when we need doctors. Maybe we should lower the the down to MA’s and BA’s

  21. Kate, you’re misinterpreting the cardinal. Here’s how I read it:
    “Before we tell our people to stop offending, tell your people to stop killing.”

  22. Neo: “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away.”
    I’d have thought that warning ought to have been heeded less by ‘multicultists,’ as you term them, and more by those who argued Iraq’s invaders would be welcomed as liberators and would need only a couple of billion to do the job.
    maz2: “equality, like most abstract doctrines, is “a monstrous fiction.”
    Burke is thoughtlessly quoted by many. How about this ‘monstrous fiction,’ from this morning’s speech by President Bush: ‘we’re advancing our security at home by advancing the cause of
    freedom across the world.’
    Fred: “Why bring Kofi “I lined my pockets with Oil Scam Money” Annan into this discussion.”
    In case you didn’t notice, that was you bringing Kofi Annann into the discussion.

  23. I love Kate (well, I dont know Kate at all, but I love her writings), but she obviously hasnt taken first year logic.
    Her evaluation of the Cardinals comment is a well known logical error: denying the antecedent .

  24. Stephen . . good luck with life, reality for you & your fuzzy wuzzy brain ilk is going to be a bitch.
    Friday . . was the day to shoot the women in the soccer field . . back of the head with the trusty ’47
    Thursday was for stoning homosexuals in the main square
    Saturdays, well that was just for killing anyone the mullahs didn’t fancy that week & had “fatwa’d”
    When the come for you, don’t expect us to help.
    Bye now.

  25. Dude:
    I respectfully disagree. While very close, the wikipedia used the term antecedant. This does not cover. Having said that, I’m willing to give leeway that Kate is not to the statement; where English might be the second language. Previous post, Christianity should stay out of politics.

  26. Stephen, why don’t you go to Bagdad and give all of the Iraqi’s a great big hug, I’m sure that’ll solve all of their problems. Been living on the dark side of the moon with your tin foil hat on, eh Stephen?

  27. Mark F: “…Lowering the bar? We have immigrants with PHD’s driving taxis, when we need doctors. Maybe we should lower the the down to MA’s and BA’s”
    Maybe you haven’t heard Mark, they are going to import about 36,000 truck drivers from Asia in the next while, just to fill those gaps, never mind other professions. In the rush to fill the vancancies, I hope they DON’T lower the bar any more than it is. We have 36,000 “undesirables” loose in this country they can’t find… because they don’t deport people here like other countries. We ask them to leave?! By a certain date?! And let’s not forget those 600+ people on a freighter they brought in, and made to “promise” to appear before the court in 2 weeks. Only about HALF showed up!! OK… so who ARE these people that are running loose in this country? Pretty shoddy immigration policy if you ask me. It WOULDN’T happen like that in Australia I can guarantee you!

  28. Stephen(possibly “from bc”?) – Yawn.
    I’d have thought that warning ought to have been heeded less by ‘multicultists,’ as you term them, and more by those who argued Iraq’s invaders would be welcomed as liberators and would need only a couple of billion to do the job.
    68% turnout in the Iraqi election, better then most elections in democratic countries, THE IRAQIS GOT IT, DUMBASS. The multi-culti’s didn’t.
    Are you so idiotically uninformed you still don’t get who the insurgents are? Hint. They aren’t Iraqis. Do facts ever penetrate your thick skull? The mosque destroyed. Hint: Iran.
    Changing your uninformed and illogical content is a better gambit then your troll name change tactic.

  29. Of course… we can be comforted in know ing that these new truck drivers being imported in the next while WILL have the ability to drive. The question is… can they drive properly? No worries tho, if they don’t speak english an interpreter can and WILL be provided to pass the driving exam, as is now the law. Perhaps they can drive well in their own country… I just wonder how they compare to the industry here. I face numerous drivers every shift in the Fraser canyon. Both native-born Canadians and immigrants. There are some on both sides that shouldn’t be allowed to drive cars, never mind screaming down the road sitting on 136,000 lbs! I’ve dodged stuff falling off loads, drivers who think the centre-line is a decoration, and equipment that Stelco wouldn’t even take for scrap! Yeah, so I hope they don’t lower the bar, just to fill those jobs. I’ve managed to stay alive for the last 1.5 million professional miles with only one minor mishap, caused by someone who couldn’t keep to their side. You might wanna think about that next time you see a fully loaded truck ripping thru the mountains at 115 km/h.

  30. “Enough now with this turning the other cheek! It’s our duty to protect ourselves,” Monsignor Velasio De Paolis, secretary of the Vatican’s supreme court, thundered in the daily La Stampa. Jesus told his followers to “turn the other cheek” when struck.
    Jesus didn’t say to turn the other cheek in all situations. Only when met with violence while teaching.
    Self-defense has always been a Christian precept. As evidenced by Peter cutting off the ear of priest’s servant, does anyone think Peter was wearing a sword just for show? John 18:10.

  31. Stephen:
    >>and more by those who argued Iraq’s invaders would be welcomed as liberators and would need only a couple of billion to do the job.
    Can you point me to somewhere that someone said either of these things? A link, maybe?

  32. I read the Cardinal’s statement as being weak… in the face of troubling developments in the ME… can you imagine if a left leaning Pope was in the big chair?
    Of course the Vatican doesn’t have much in the way of a “conventional” army…. but the ability to sway so many shouldn’t be underestimated.
    I do think the current Pope knows what it is to live under tyrants, as JP2 did.
    I think Mr. Costello has it correct…. immigrants should check their intolerance at the gates, and not fester hatred from within.
    remember Toursim BC’s slogan, “Beautiful BC”
    The new one from Tourism Australia is…. “So where the bloody hell are you”? (I’m serious.)
    I’m liking Australia more and more….
    http://www.theage.com

  33. Me too marc… been toying with the idea of immigrating there for the last yr or so. Time will tell how it works out.

  34. You might wanna think about that next time you see a fully loaded truck ripping thru the mountains at 115 km/h.
    Or with Mexican plates heading up I25 in the US.
    Anyone really think that they have the same checks on truck road worthiness? Want to trust brake systems safety compliances in Mexico?
    ol hoss – Jesus was no fool. He was as good at political instructiveness – “render unto Caesar….” – as he was religiously instructive.

  35. ol hoss – have you seen Walter Wink’s interpretation of “turning the other cheek”? According to him, it wasn’t an act of meek submission – far from it. In fact it was an ingenious act of defiance that exposed the brutality of the one with the fist, for all to see and condemn.
    http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1216-30.htm
    If the Cardinal’s words are really meant the way Norman reads them –
    “Before we tell our people to stop offending, tell your people to stop killing”
    – then I think the Cardinal is getting closer to what Jesus was talking about.

  36. Stephen-
    Yes, President Bush is completely right; he IS advancing the security of the US by advancing freedom and democracy around the world.
    As for your strange comment about the practices that are incompatible with the liberal democratic traditions – those most certainly are the ones carried out within the Islamic countries – who have all shown complete neglect for the UN Charter, an utter disregard for international humanitarian laws, for the Geneva Convention and the rights of due process. I assume you are aware of these problems in the Islamic countries???.
    I fully agree with Kate- in Canada, multiculturalism has been thought of as referring to ‘food, drink, dress and dance’, ie, to cultural aspects. But, the ambiguity of its definition, aligned with the relativist lack of ethics of postmodernism, has led to more and more ‘distinct groups’ in Canada claiming ‘special rights’.
    Different religions, backgrounds etc – can only operate within a democratic society, on the cultural level. There can only be ONE legal system – and the Islamic attempt to insert THEIR legal system of Sharia, is wrong. There can only be one political system – and that means that men and women are politically and economically equal.
    And so on..so, the Australians have it ‘spot on’. They are a great open country – and Canada has lost that self-awareness and that tremendous clarity and courage that Australia has.

  37. I hear ya Penny! Just because someone can aim and steer, doesn’t mean they know how to operate the equipment safely.

  38. Miss Piggy is jubilating; what a lady. Pork for allah. +
    Cartoon-newspaper wins prize (Hip Hip Hooray!!)
    News24 (South Africa) ^ | 24 February 2006 | News24
    Posted on 02/24/2006 3:15:34 PM PST by Cornpone
    Copenhagen – Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten, which angered the Muslim world by publishing cartoons of Prophet Muhammad last year, has won a Danish critical journalism award for its initiative, the jury said.
    Denmark’s largest daily was honoured with the Victor Prize for “having opened everyone’s eyes by showing how easy it is to introduce cracks in freedom of expression and how so-called political correctness is infiltrating what we believe to be inalienable rights,” Hans Engell, the editor of tabloid Ekstra Bladet which awards the prize, said during a prize ceremony in Copenhagen late on Thursday.
    The Victor Prize, named for the late editor-in-chief of Ekstra Bladet Victor Andreasen, was handed to Jyllands-Posten’s editor Carsten Juste.
    “This prize is awarded to Jyllands-Posten for its adamant defence for months of freedom of expression, which is under threat,” Engell told AFP.
    Freedom of expression
    “Jyllands-Posten only did its duty: exercise its right to freedom of expression,” he added.
    Juste, guarded by two secret service bodyguards, noted “how fragile freedom of expression is” as he accepted the award, his newspaper reported.
    The 12 drawings of Muhammad, which first appeared in Jyllands-Posten last September, have sparked violent protests in Muslim countries against Denmark especially, as well as against other European countries where the cartoons have since been reprinted.
    Islam considers any image of the prophet blasphemous.
    Both the newspaper and Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen have repeatedly refused to apologize for the publication of the cartoons, insisting that freedom of expression is a fundamental right in Denmark. +
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1585062/posts

  39. Any comments on what would happen if the next Canadian Federal election was fought over a “rights for the majority” platform?

  40. A lot of people have missed the point.
    In a liberal democracy, no one has the authority to tell others “they do not have a right to offend”.
    Full stop.
    There is no capacity to lay any such concept on the table for the purpose of negotiation – unless you are willing to forfeit democracy itself as the price for non-violence.
    Thus, the Cardinal’s statement was a concession that offended Muslims set the terms under which he would negotiate away our democratic freedoms. That’s not reciprocity – it’s submission.

  41. It’s interesting to see the comments about moving to Australia. There’s a family story about how my grandfather chose Canada instead of Australia back in 1906. And just today, for reasons mentioned on this thread, I thought, hey, what if it had been Australia…
    Of course, the poll that mentioned the majority of Canadians didn’t thing we should help in Afstan didn’t help.

  42. Interesting idea Martin B. I’d love to see it here, but I fear that the majority have been so brain-washed that it’d be “politically incorrect”, you see.

  43. ol hoss – have you seen Walter Wink’s interpretation of “turning the other cheek”?
    I really don’t agree with his interpretation. The command to turn the other cheek was in relation to teaching the Gospel. That’s the subject of the foregoing scripture.
    The “evil” spoken of in Matt. 5:39 is poneros, and simply means “hurtful” and does not refer to essential charactor or degeneracy.
    Christians are also to obey civil law in the country in which they reside (Romans 13). That’s the context of “render unto Caesar…”, in which the ruling country was heathen.
    That certainly doesn’t preclude Christians from taking a part in the politics (policies) of a Christian country.

  44. I re-read that cardinals statement a couple times, just to be sure it said wot it said. All I can say is….LUDICROUS! Someone check his party membership! I seriously hope he’s NOT involved with this country in any meaningful political capacity. Why not just kneel and offer the head now. Sheesh! Our boys that never came back would be bloody livid.

  45. martin…
    unfortunately the candian charter of rights sanctioned the right of the minority and NOT the rghts of the majority. hence the problems we are faced with today. there can be no canadian “identity” under our present charter. what exactly is a canadian in todays world ?

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