“We have no creative presence in the world”

For those who cannot understand how it is that the big-government, nanny-state “liberal” left finds kinship with fundamentalist Islam and fascist dictators – an interview with poet Ali Ahmad Sa’id, who is known by the pseudonym “Adonis”;

Interviewer: “What are the reasons for growing glorification of dictatorships – sometimes in the name of pan-Arabism, and other times in the name of rejecting foreigners? The glorification comes even from the elites, as can be seen, for example, in the Saddam Hussein trial, and in all the people who support him.”
Adonis: “This phenomenon is very dangerous, and I believe it has to do with the concept of ‘oneness,’ which is reflected – in practical or political terms – in the concept of the hero, the savior, or the leader. This concept offers an inner sense of security to people who are afraid of freedom. Some human beings are afraid of freedom.”
Interviewer: “Because it is synonymous with anarchy?”
Adonis: “No, because being free is a great burden. It is by no means easy.”
Interviewer: “You’ve got to have a boss…”
Adonis: “When you are free, you have to face reality, the world in its entirety. You have to deal with the world’s problems, with everything…”
Interviewer: “With all the issues…”
Adonis: “On the other hand, if we are slaves, we can be content and not have to deal with anything. Just as Allah solves all our problems, the dictator will solve all our problems.”
[…]
“I don’t understand what is happening in Arab society today. I don’t know how to interpret this situation, except by making the following hypothesis: When I look at the Arab world, with all its resources, the capacities of Arab individuals, especially abroad – you will find among them great philosophers, scientists, engineers, and doctors. In other words, the Arab individual is no less smart, no less a genius, than anyone else in the world. He can excel – but only outside his society. I have nothing against the individuals – only against the institutions and the regimes.
“If I look at the Arabs, with all their resources and great capacities, and I compare what they have achieved over the past century with what others have achieved in that period, I would have to say that we Arabs are in a phase of extinction, in the sense that we have no creative presence in the world.”
Interviewer: “Are we on the brink of extinction, or are we already extinct?”
Adonis: “We have become extinct. We have the quantity. We have the masses of people, but a people becomes extinct when it no longer has a creative capacity, and the capacity to change its world.”

(Emphasis mine.)
The only portion that puzzles is why Ali Ahmad Sa’id doesn’t quite make the connection to “understand what is happening in Arab society today”. The two traits he mentions in the quote I selected (dependency on “higher” authority and lack of creativity) are not simply related – the latter is the expected consequence of the former.
The rest at Memri.

172 Replies to ““We have no creative presence in the world””

  1. Very sad really, a billion people drifting on grievance, for nothing.
    Insightful article. Not surprising he chooses anonymity, the mullahs would fatwa his butt real quick.

  2. This is why the Islam worries me…
    http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/03/21/afghan.christian/index.html
    Rahman, a father of two, was arrested last week and is now awaiting trial for rejecting Islam. He told local police, whom he approached on an unrelated matter, that he had converted to Christianity. Reports say he was carrying a Bible at the time.
    “They want to sentence me to death, and I accept it,” Rahman told reporters last week, “but I am not a deserter and not an infidel.”
    ———–
    Love to know what all you peaceniks think about this. Shameful man converts to Christianity and is found with a Bible. He should be brought to Canada and indoctrinated in our places of higher education about freedom of thinking and how to giving BJ’s to a Capitalist Pig.

  3. Typical rightie…bringing a poet to a gunfight.
    Funny…I read that and it confirmed that it was for those who cannot understand how it is that the small-government, control-state “Conservative” right finds kinship with fundamentalist Islam and fascist dictators. Fascism is right wing.
    I’m ready for my diagnosis now.

  4. Yeszz. Fascism is right-wing. That’s why Hitler’s party was called the National Socialist German Workers Party, and used the same hammer-in-fist iconography as Mao and Stalin.
    That’s an interesting, thought, Kate, that freedom is terrifying to leftists because they’re not up to snuff. I’ve never understood why leftists always seem to find common ground with brutal dictators like the ronery Kim Jong Il, and brutal Islamist theocrats, or why they have always been so spectacularly, pointedly indifferent to the horrifying conditions in North Korea today, just as they were to Maoist China or the former Soviet Union.
    Maybe they consider freedom to be beyond their ability to deal with, and that it’s a form of cruelty and abandonment. As a working theory, it would explain why they yearn for control over all things, and why they constantly, tireless organize to set up an overarching state which, in their dreams, will control everything.
    Hmmm…

  5. Hey
    That was a pretty intelligent stringing together of labels all-in-a-row “big government nanny state liberal left.
    Say it quickly and it becomes even more meaningless. Lazy writing. c minus!

  6. Related article here:
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Commentary/com-2_28_06_TL.html
    Toward the end of the article Thomas Lifson writes:
    “At its heart, the Islamist vision is opposed to all technological change. Rather than a society characterized by continuing discoveries in medicine, telecommunications advances and new applications of micro-electronics to further delight the mind and body, these Islamists prefer (or think they prefer) a steady state society, roughly fixed at the seventh century, when Muhammad received divine revelations and laid down the optimal way to govern human existence for all time.”
    He then refers to the comparisson that Jack Risko, of Dinocrat.com makes between patent activity in the nations of Islam and the west:
    Saudi Arabia, which only established a patent office in 1990, has not granted a patent in six years. Iran in 2001 granted only one patent. Egypt, home to a quarter of the world�s Arabs, is only now getting around to mandating the task of undertaking a substantive investigation of patent claims before granting patents.
    The basic machinery of technological innovation is absent. Indonesia, with almost a quarter billion people, has totaled 30 patents in the last five years.
    The US granted 157,000 patents last year, and has a cumulative total of seven million. Jack Risko comments:
    Imagine: over a billion people, and they have fewer patents in their entire recorded history than did the citizens of Utah last year.
    Jihadists have proven adept at using cell phones, air travel, the internet, and satellite television. We now fear their developing prowess in biotechnology and nuclear technology. Clearly their hostility to technology has not prevented them from using it.
    I have to ask myself if they truly would give up all these fruits of science and civilization, originated in the west but now embraced throughout the non-Muslim world. No more al Jazeera? No more cell phones?
    How about no more air-conditioning?
    If they get their way, do they envision getting rid of all post-800 AD innovations? Or will they try to hold onto what exists, while allowing no further innovation? The mind boggles. Who will train the air conditioner repair men? How will they keep up with what already exists if nobody is interested extending in such knowledge? Everyone might as well just study the Koran in madrassas.
    And that is the point.”
    Freedom is the catalyst that makes creativity and innovation possible in society. Profit and the possibility of gain are the incentives that allow dreamers dare to take a risk.
    Daniel

  7. Rejection of personal responsibility and dependancce upon the nanny state (or the dictatorial one) has created driven creativity and innovation from the soul of many on the left. Ali Ahmed Sa’id sees this but, as you commented, doesn’t make the connection.
    What’s the adage? “Give a man a fish….”
    Might as well end with “…and soon he’ll be flopping around on the beach.”

  8. Slouching towards sanity. +
    Afghan convert to Christianity unfit to stand trial
    Associated Press
    Published: Wednesday, March 22, 2006
    KABUL, Afghanistan — An Afghan man facing a possible death penalty for converting from Islam to Christianity may be mentally unfit to stand trial, a state prosecutor said Wednesday.
    Abdul Rahman has been charged with rejecting Islam, a crime under this country’s Islamic laws. His trial started last week and he confessed to becoming a Christian 16 years ago. If convicted, he could be executed.
    But prosecutor Sarinwal Zamari said questions have been raised about his mental fitness.
    “We think he could be mad. He is not a normal person. He doesn’t talk like a normal person,” he said in an interview.
    Moayuddin Baluch, a religious adviser to President Hamid Karzai, said Rahman would undergo a psychological examination.
    “Doctors must examine him,” he said. “If he is mentally unfit, definitely Islam has no claim to punish him. He must be forgiven. The case must be dropped. +
    http://www.paulding.net/bin/url.cgi/13229.6
    canada.com

  9. “Fascism is right wing.”
    NOT
    Castro say’s he’s a socialist just like you steve in bc
    Mugabe say’s he thinks like you too.
    China says they’re commie’s just like Jack Layton.
    Steve in bc Diagnosis: You think you’re rebelling against something,you’re stuck in the 60’s ,your brain shut off, you have no capacity to reason nor critical thought, only default modes that you allowed flakes to install into your physche.
    The good news is we’re not all like you, your presence here tells of an attraction to the right.
    Go with that.
    And make another appointment with the rceptionist in the lobby.

  10. They really are forgetful.
    Arabs invented suicide bombing and hitting themselves in the head during parades whilst screaming and bleeding.

  11. so maz2, this fellow in Afghanistan that converts from Islam to Christianity, must be insane?
    thank you for making sense of it all for me. sarc/

  12. A relevant column by David Warren in the Ottawa Citizen today, available online at:
    http://davidwarrenonline.com/
    Excerpts:

    ‘An editorial in this newspaper yesterday called attention to the case of a man in the �new Afghanistan�, named Abdul Rahman, who is being tried for apostasy under Shariah law. He secretly converted to Christianity 16 years ago, while working with a Christian aid mission, and now members of his own family have outed him. Under Shariah, anyone who converts from Islam is guilty of apostasy, which has always been punished by death. It is the reason Christian missionaries have had so much less success in the Islamic world than elsewhere — for the Muslim convert must choose Christ and martyrdom in a single step. He can save his life by reconverting to Islam, but then he is denying Christ, as Abdul Rahman refuses to do.
    I mention this case because it perfectly illustrates the impossibility of establishing a Western secular order in a country where Shariah is recognized as law. Or as the learned Bernard Lewis put it, as discreetly as he could, in his book Islam and the West: �The primary duty of the Muslim as set forth not once but many times in the Qur’an is �to command good and forbid evil�. It is not enough to do good and refrain from evil as a personal choice. It is incumbent upon Muslims also to command and forbid — that is, to exercise authority.�
    This is at the root of the �clash� between the worldviews of our West and the Islamic East. Because our societies were built on Judaeo-Christian foundations, we take it for granted that it is wrong to kill someone for his religious beliefs. Whereas Islam holds it is wrong not to kill him, for abandoning Islam. (On the other hand, the right to convert TO Islam has been universally affirmed.)
    Shariah is logically coherent, and cannot be argued with on its own premises. The clash is therefore of premises. At the end of the day, we are attempting to impose our premises on societies that are conditioned to reject them.
    But of course, the Bush administration must pretend that our premises are universal, or at least, that men anywhere would embrace them given a free choice. The latter proposition may be true, but not the former. And it is in the transition that all National Security Strategies, presidential speeches, and the like, are bound to founder…
    Any way you look at it, the �democratization� project asks Muslims to cease to think as Muslims, and think as post-Christian �seculars� instead. This was the project Kemal Ataturk embarked upon, in trying to modernize Turkey after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. In Turkey, it involved the suppression of nearly every visible manifestation of Islam in public life — and it worked, for a while. Turkey became modern. But now, nearly a century later, Islam is visibly resurgent even there.
    The Bush administration does not know how to square this circle. Does anyone?’
    Mark
    Ottawa

  13. Nein, mein marc in calgary/ das devil, aka Satan, made hims mad. )Sarcasm: irony is great, praise Irony.) And in Darfur, there is no irony. Point: There are no mosques/mullahahas on the list, so far, Darfur. +
    Practical blasphemy
    In the toss up between cartoons and killing people, one might conclude that ending the lives of the children of God might rank as a greater offence than mocking either God or God’s prophets. So, one might expect that a few Sudanese embassies have been put to the torch by crowds angry at genocide in Darfur, but apparently not.
    The protests against mass murder in Darfur have been impressively peaceful. A number of religious institutions have started displaying banners calling for the Darfuris to be saved. A list is here. Oddly, one kind of religious institution appears to be missing. Interestingly, many institutions that will soon commemorate pharaonically induced mass pedestrianism are well represented. How will Harvard explain that? +
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1600880/posts
    List here:
    http://www.savedarfurbanner.net/pages/4/index.htm

  14. OK, TG, I will do that. Just as soon as I figure out what a wps file is. But..your crabby response aside, or included (as you like) I would suggest my comment had some relevance, because you responded to it.
    I’m not dissing your site, by the way. I like your site, or I would not be reading here. Simply saying I prefer descriptions more vivid than “nanny state”.
    Using those kinds of labels reduce discussion the level we used to enjoy at recess, while playing dodge ball.

  15. What a choice-choose Christ and be killed, choose Islam and kill others and yourself with a bomb. Only difference I see is that as a Christian, when killed, there are no virgins waiting for you. No one has ever told me what a female suicide bomber gets when she reaches paradise.

  16. (“The quality of mercy is not strained, it droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven…” Portia: Merchant of Venice. Shakespeare.) +
    Leader-Post:
    Soldiers save Afghan boy
    Namatullah, a six-year-old boy with a suspected case of cancer (centre), sits while his grandfather Taj Mohammed (left) discusses his case with Canadian army doctor Capt. Adrian Norbash in Kandahar, Afghanistan on Thursday, Feb. 23, 2006.
    Photograph by : CP PHOTO/Les Perreau
    Richard Foot, CanWest News Service
    Published: Wednesday, March 22, 2006
    KANDAHAR, Afghanistan — One month ago, a dying, six-year-old Afghan boy arrived at the gate of the Canadian army base in this city, brought by his grandfather in a desperate effort to find help for the suffering child.
    Horrified by the huge, infected tumour on his face, and the cancer that had spread to his lymph nodes and liver, Canadian medical staff said they couldn’t save the boy’s life but would try to ease his pain until he died.
    On Tuesday, the boy came back to the base for the first time since that fateful introduction — his tumour gone, his cancer in extraordinary retreat, and a small, shy smile upon his face — a living testament to the power of human kindness in this hard and unforgiving land.
    “When he first came here there was no indication that he would survive,” says Cpl. Brian Sanders, one-half of a miracle-working Canadian tag team that appears to have saved the boy’s life.
    “Instead of certain death, he now has a 70-per-cent chance of survival.”
    When the boy, named Namatullah, first came into the orbit of the Canadian mission in Kandahar, he was grotesquely disfigured by facial cancer and in severe pain from the disease that had metastacized in his abdomen.
    His grandfather Taj Mohammad, a former mujahedeen warrior from Kandahar who once fought against the Russians, had been turned away from local hospitals here and in Kabul, by doctors who said the boy was beyond treatment and recovery.

    Sanders belongs to a church back in Canada, the North Edmonton Christian Fellowship, that had been looking for a worthy cause to support in Afghanistan. He e-mailed photographs of Namatullah to the congregation, asking for help.
    Within days, the church, along with other Canadians who heard about the boy’s plight on the television news, had raised $10,000 to give Namatullah whatever medical care he needed.

    With the help of his uncles (his father is an opium addict), he was also brought triumphantly back to the Canadian base on Tuesday, where he sat for an hour in the army medical clinic — a tiny, heralded hero — a tad bewildered by all the fuss, but surrounded by an admiring swarm of smiling soldiers. +
    http://www.paulding.net/bin/url.cgi/13229.15

  17. Mark in Ottawa, this is the same David Warren who gloried in Iraq II, trumpeted how swimmingly things were going there according to his “American sources,” and declared that Bush was “de man.”
    Why is he now using the terminology of Sir Robert Thompson describing US efforts in Vietnam as trying to “square the circle.” Will Warren continue to the next Thompsonean insight, that the application of more force merely “squared the error?”

  18. For those people who believe that we should not be imposing “our way of life” on other societies, I believe that Basic Human Rights should be Universal

  19. Of course the Afghan Christian convert doesn’t talk like a ‘normal’ person: Christians tend to talk about turning the other cheek, and loving their neighbours as much as themselves.
    Compare that to years of Taliban rantings about soaking the land with rivers of Infidel blood, etc – heck it would sound insane to the average Afghani.

  20. I think John Daly is correct in his assertion that the term “nanny state” is lacking in vividness.
    What people should be talking about is the anal retentive nanny state. 🙂

  21. Ah, the connection. Former LIEberal leader of Canada goes to Libya, probably to pick up some new tips on how to “control” the minds{?} of left thinking{?} people! Just what’s needed by people too afraid to think for themselves and follow their leaders blindly while being fleeced by same! When you have an entire people too afraid to step out of their bubble and think/act for themselves, you have a pretty sad state of affairs. Muslim fundamentalists? It’s just too easy to recrute when your pool is composed entirely of people under the impression that they will be looked after without having to bother looking after themselves. Same as the LIEberals and NDP! Sad.

  22. “While Europe turns Muslim the children of the West burn the evidence of its Christian past.”
    “The French authorities fear that rioting students have destroyed unique manuscripts from the library of the Sorbonne University in Paris. According to today�s Catholic newspaper La Croix precious religious manuscript collections disappeared during the recent occupation of the Sorbonne. The books are mediaeval ecclesiastical chartularies: registers documenting property rights and temporary privileges pertaining to a church or monastery. The documents may have been burned on barricades which the students made near the Sorbonne chapel during the night of 10 March.”
    http://www.brusselsjournal.com/
    Can there be any clearer example of the mentality of leftists?
    They are as intolerant, arrogant and destructive as the Islamofascists.

  23. Daniel, You have written a little gem there old man. At 3:07 am I had no idea and I suspect many others were illuminated as well.
    Interesting in that Liberals and fundamentalists will be encouraged to think carefully and some will quietly see the light. TG

  24. Mark Collins at 8:54 writes another excellent piece of clarity. Very good! Is it the first day of spring, or something in the water? TG

  25. If you don’t like the words: “big-government, nanny-state “liberal” left”
    Prove it doesn’t exist or at least that you are not one. Otherwise accept the label.
    RE: the topic here, there is one flaw that Adonis cannot shake. His belief in any future for Islam. Islam is fundamentally corrupt.
    The Truth About Islam

  26. MaryT, A female suicide bomber, when she goes to the great mosque in the sky..[not sure how to spell heavan].. gets total freedom from oppression and never has to see a burkah again.
    TG

  27. WHY WE FIGHT
    By TONY BLAIR (I ain’t no panty waist socialist)
    March 22, 2006 — Below are excerpts from British Prime Minister Tony Blair’s speech yesterday to the Foreign Policy Center in London. The full text is on the Web at:
    number10.gov.uk/output/Page9222.asp
    – THE EDITORS
    VICTORY for democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan is a vital element of defeating global terrorism.
    I recall the video footage of Mohammed Sadiq Khan, the ringleader of the 7/7 bombers. There he was, complaining about the suppression of Muslims, the wickedness of America and Britain, calling on all fellow Muslims to fight us.
    And I thought: Here is someone brought up in this country – free to practice his religion, free to speak out, free to vote, with a good standard of living and every chance to raise a family in a decent way of life – talking about “us,” the British, when his whole experience of “us” has been the very opposite of the message he is preaching.
    And in so far as he is angry about Muslims in Iraq or Afghanistan – let Iraqi or Afghan Muslims decide whether to be angry or not, by ballot.
    There was something tragic, terrible but also ridiculous about such a diatribe. He may have been born here. But his ideology wasn’t. And that is why it has to be taken on, everywhere.
    This terrorism will not be defeated until its ideas – the poison that warps the minds of its adherents – are confronted, head-on, in their essence, at their core.
    By this I don’t mean telling them terrorism is wrong. I mean telling them their attitude to America is absurd; their concept of governance pre-feudal; their positions on women and other faiths, reactionary and regressive.
    And then, since only by Muslims can this be done: standing up for and supporting those within Islam who will tell them all of this but more – namely that the extremist view of Islam is not just theologically backward but completely contrary to the spirit and teaching of the Koran.
    But in order to do this, we must reject the thought that somehow we are the authors of our own distress; that if only we altered this decision or that, the extremism would fade away. The only way to win is to recognize this phenomenon is a global ideology; to see all areas, in which it operates, as linked; and to defeat it by values and ideas set in opposition to those of the terrorists.
    THE struggle against terrorism in Madrid or London or Paris is the same as the struggle against the terrorist acts of Hezbollah in Lebanon or the PIJ in Palestine or rejectionist groups in Iraq. The murder of the innocent in Beslan is part of the same ideology that takes innocent lives in Saudi Arabia, the Yemen or Libya.
    And when Iran gives support to such terrorism, it becomes part of the same battle, with the same ideology at its heart.
    The conventional view is that, for example, Iran is hostile to al Qaeda and therefore would never support its activities. But as we know from our own history of conflict, under the pressure of battle, alliances shift and change. Fundamentally, for this ideology, we are the enemy.
    Which brings me to the fundamental point. “We” is not the West. “We” are as much Muslim as Christian or Jew or Hindu. “We” are those who believe in religious tolerance, openness to others, to democracy, liberty and human rights administered by secular courts.
    This is not a clash between civilizations. It is a clash about civilization.
    It is the age-old battle between progress and reaction, between those who embrace and see opportunity in the modern world and those who reject its existence; between optimism and hope on the one hand; and pessimism and fear on the other.
    And in the era of globalization – where nations depend on each other and where our security is held in common or not at all – the outcome of this clash between extremism and progress is utterly determinative of our future here in Britain. We can no more opt out of this struggle than we can opt out of the climate changing around us.
    T HIS is why the position of so much opinion on how to defeat this terrorism and on the continuing struggle in Iraq and Afghanistan and the Middle East is, in my judgment, so mistaken. It ignores the true significance of the elections in Iraq and Afghanistan.
    The fact is: Given the chance, the people wanted democracy. OK, so they voted on religious or regional lines. That’s not surprising, given the history. But there’s not much doubt what all the main parties in both countries would prefer, and it is neither theocratic nor secular dictatorship.
    The people – despite violence, intimidation, inexperience and often logistical nightmares – voted. Not a few, but in numbers large enough to shame many western democracies. They want government decided by the people.
    And who is trying to stop them? In Iraq, a mixture of foreign Jihadists, former Saddamists and rejectionist insurgents. In Afghanistan, a combination of drug barons, Taliban and al Qaeda.
    In both countries, the armed forces and police service are taking shape so that in time a democratically elected government has, under its control, sufficient power to do the will of the democratic state. In each case, people die lining up to join such forces – determined, whatever the risk, to be part of a new and different dispensation.
    So here, in its most pure form, is a struggle between democracy and violence.
    PEOPLE look back on the three years since the Iraq conflict; they point to the precarious nature of Iraq today and to those who have died – mainly in terrorist acts – and they say: How can it have been worth it?
    But there is a different question to ask: Why is it so important to the forces of reaction and violence to halt Iraq in its democratic tracks and tip it into sectarian war? Why do foreign terrorists from al Qaeda and its associates go across the border to kill and maim? Why does Syria not take stronger action to prevent them? Why does Iran meddle so furiously in the stability of Iraq?
    The answer is that the reactionary elements know the importance of victory or defeat in Iraq. Right from the beginning, to them it was obvious.
    For sure, errors were made on our side. But the basic problem from the murder of the United Nations staff in August 2003 onwards was simple: security. The reactionary elements were trying to de-rail both reconstruction and democracy by violence.
    Power and electricity became problems not through the indolence of either Iraqis or the multinational force but through sabotage. People became frightened through terrorism and through criminal gangs, some deliberately released by Saddam.
    These were not random acts. They were and are a strategy. When that strategy failed to push the multinational force out of Iraq prematurely and failed to stop the voting, they turned to sectarian killing and outrage – most notably February’s savage and blasphemous destruction of the Shia Shrine at Samarra.
    They know that if they can succeed either in Iraq or Afghanistan (or indeed in Lebanon or anywhere else wanting to go the democratic route), then the choice of a modern democratic future for the Arab or Muslim world is dealt a potentially mortal blow.
    Likewise, if they fail, and those countries become democracies and make progress and, in the case of Iraq, prosper rapidly as it would – then not merely is that a blow against their whole value system; it is the most effective message possible against their wretched propaganda about America, the West, the rest of the world.
    That to me is the painful irony of what is happening. They have so much clearer a sense of what is at stake. They play our own media with a shrewdness that would be the envy of many a political party.
    SHORTLY after Saddam fell, I met in London a woman who, after years of exile (and there were 4 million such exiles), had returned to Iraq to participate in modern politics there. A couple of months later, she was assassinated, one of the first to be so.
    I cannot tell what she would say now. But I do know it would not be, “Give up.” She would not want her sacrifice for her beliefs to be in vain.
    Two years later, the same ideology killed people on the streets of London, and for the same reason: To stop cultures, faiths and races living in harmony; to deter those who see greater openness to others as a mark of humanity’s progress; to disrupt the very thing that makes London special would in time, if allowed to, set Iraq on a course of progress too.
    This is, ultimately, a battle about modernity. Some of it can only be conducted and won within Islam itself. But don’t let us in our desire not to speak of what we can only imperfectly understand; or our wish not to trespass on sensitive feelings, end up accepting the premise of the very people fighting us.
    The extremism is not the true voice of Islam. Neither is that voice necessarily to be found in those who are from one part only of Islamic thought, however assertively that voice makes itself heard. It is, as ever, to be found in the calm, but too often unheard beliefs of the many Muslims, millions of them the world over, including in Europe, who want what we all want: to be ourselves free and for others to be free also; who regard tolerance as a virtue and respect for the faith of others as part of our own faith.
    That is what this battle is about, within Islam and outside of it; it is a battle of values and progress – and therefore it is one we must win.

  28. FASCISM IS RIGHT FAR RIGHT
    Yes, the proof is NOT in the NAME the PROOF is in the actions of the FASCISTS. You have to ask yourself what they actually did.
    Socialists do not put socialists in concentration camps
    Socialists do not put homosexuals in concentration camps
    Socialists do not make deals with Capitalists to give them slave labour
    Socialists do not put Communists in jail
    Socialist governments do not attack Communist governments
    Hitler’s FASCIST government did all of those things.
    He was aided and abetted by large international Capitalist corporations. It would be impossible to arm and outfit a state of the art military without working closely with large corporations–some of them American(IBM,FORD,GOODYEAR)

  29. On a related note, check out this post at The Western Standard’s Shotgun blog.
    Tim Denton and I have co-authored an essay entitled “Allah’s Holodeck: How the Islamic Worldview Deals with Contrition”, in which we examine the problem of free will within Islam and its consequences in relations with Western societies.

  30. Oops … Their is actually spelled ‘there’
    Daly … FYI
    .WPS file is a word prefect text file
    .doc is a word for windows text file
    AND …
    ‘nanny state’ is a perfect description of the over bearing, in your face, over taxing government we have here is The Socialist Dominion.

  31. Arabs have been emasculated in the last century by the two economic and military superpowers of the time, England then America.
    Their foreign policy is dictated by their economic interests. In this case oil has been increasingly important. To ensure that oil is delivered reliably you must have order and control of the supply. The Americans can control the supply if the locals could supply the order. It doesn’t matter who gives you the necessary stability as long as they leave you to exploit the resource. So deals were made and are still being made to ensure political stability.
    In summary, it is superpower meddling which while making a small number of Arabs immensely rich keep the vast majority impotent. Obviously, these days it becomes more of a challenge to maintain this stability because it was set up by outside forces.

  32. Tony Blair:
    Likewise, if they [Jihadists] fail, and those countries become democracies and make progress and, in the case of Iraq, prosper rapidly as it would – then not merely is that a blow against their whole value system; it is the most effective message possible against their wretched propaganda about America, the West, the rest of the world.
    The extremism is not the true voice of Islam.
    It is, as ever, to be found in the calm, but too often unheard beliefs of the many Muslims, millions of them the world over, including in Europe, who want what we all want: to be ourselves free and for others to be free also; who regard tolerance as a virtue and respect…
    ======================
    There is a world conference attended by moderate Muslims and Muslim leaders in progress right now.
    Their purpose is to come up with effective ways to stop fudamentalist cleric leaders from twisting the peaceful teachings of Muhammad to violence for their own personal power grab.
    The outcome will be important! TG

  33. I’ve seen the word FREEDOM liberally thrown about this topic…I’m starting to believe mankind will never trully be FREE until he can break FREE of this ancient, cross-cultural need to believe in an after-life.
    I live my life without imposing my beliefs on others yet am constantly oppressed by “believers”,from facing threats of terrorist attacks,to watching friends being manipulated
    by religious pitchmen(often for cash,of course).
    I am sooooo sick and tired of watching,at ANY given time,innocent people from somewhere in the world,suffering horribly in the name of someone’s GOD.
    Will mankind ever break FREE of these CHAINS?

  34. Maz2 “…mentally unfit to stand trial, a state prosecutor said Wednesday.”
    Hmmm…I recall King David pulling a madness stunt when he was before a court
    😉
    Guess this is the best way to settle this in the worlds eyes, win-win for both parties. One doesn’t die, and the other doesn’t change its laws.
    Just hope the locals are as accountable…

  35. steven d, I agree with you that by definition fascism isn’t socialistic or Communistic – that fascism in history is more a product of the extreme right. Others may make a better case that I’m wrong.
    I disagree with you that the root of Arab’s problems at this point in time is their emasculation by others. Until they burn Islam to the ground and embrace incompatible concepts like secularism, science, women’s rights, modern commerce(Islam forbids charging interest on lendings) and freedom of expression they will always be doomed.
    In Arab history the rich were always a small number. Wealth belonged to the tribe on top. Nothing has changed over centuries.

  36. To Canadian Observer,
    RE: “watching,at ANY given time,innocent people from somewhere in the world,suffering horribly in the name of someone’s GOD.”

    Innocent people are suffering because of their own terrible GOVERNMENT.
    Nowhere in Canada or America are people suffering because of “someones God”? The truth is actually the opposite. Canada and American were founded on the recognition of our own citizens God given freedoms that our GOVERNMENTS may not take.

  37. Steve D., either you’ve never picked up a book in your life, or you don’t own a TV… which is it?
    Stalin was a socialist, and he killed 30 million other socialists, imprisoned countless millions more.
    Ever hear of the “Cultural Revolution”?
    Ever hear of the unpaid Merc. armies provided to Angola by Mr. Castro?
    How bout’ the poor bastards “shot”, running across the demark line in Berlin in the 60’s and chasing the wall in the 70’s…
    And of course, the Cheks were just liberals begging the Russians to come and free them from their oppressive way of life in 58′.
    Dude, you want to tear away at rightwingers, fine. Try using better examples though.

  38. “watching,at ANY given time,innocent people from somewhere in the world,suffering horribly in the name of someone’s GOD.”
    Somewhere in the world, at any given, time some innocent person chokes on a pill or dies because of an incompetent doctor, so should we eradicate medicine?
    You may hate religion but it is a source of comfort to many. Billions of dollars are donated to Christian/Jewish charities and put to good use in helping others. Statistics show that private faith based charities do a better job than government.
    Any thoughts on just what religion specifically, as we speak, is inflicting violence on others globally? And the religion of Islam’s victims?

  39. Daniel has a very cogent point about the paucity of patents in Muslim countries.
    Here’s another one that seems to me to correlate.
    Cairo, Egypt has been since the 19th century the book printing and publishing capital of the Muslim world. I can’t now find an excellent article I read on that recently but it detailed the significant and steady decline of the numbers of books published in Cairo over the last few decades. (Cairo not being replaced in publishing and printing by any other cities, either.)
    Those two factors: the dearth of Muslim patents (and presumably also copyrights and trademarks) as well as the steady decrease of book publishing seem to me to be excellent empirical evidence of a declining culture.

  40. Penny, I would suggest that although the political right are often described by the left as “fascistic” or of having fascist tendencies, the vast majority of real world fascists are on the left, and coming from the left.
    Using Webster’s definition of fascism as a political philosophy, movement or regime “that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation and forcible suppression of opposition” — don’t you think that Mao, Stalin, Kim Jong Il, and Castro perfectly fit the bill?
    The left says that chimpy McHitler Bush is the fascist, because the left’s descriptions of the right are usually in the form of perjoratives and accusations. Whereas (steve in bc) the terms Kate used to refer to the liberal-left — “big-government” and “nanny-state” — are accurate descriptions of the liberal-left’s avowed policies and goals. And of course “Liberal left” itself is no more insulting a term of description than “right” or “conservative”.
    Perhaps the left would prefer that everyone use the left’s approach to labeling, in which case the description of the left would be “whiny myopian-kleptocrats.”

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