For those who cannot understand how it is that the big-government, nanny-state “liberal” left finds kinship with fundamentalist Islam and fascist dictators – an interview with poet Ali Ahmad Sa’id, who is known by the pseudonym “Adonis”;
Interviewer: “What are the reasons for growing glorification of dictatorships – sometimes in the name of pan-Arabism, and other times in the name of rejecting foreigners? The glorification comes even from the elites, as can be seen, for example, in the Saddam Hussein trial, and in all the people who support him.”
Adonis: “This phenomenon is very dangerous, and I believe it has to do with the concept of ‘oneness,’ which is reflected – in practical or political terms – in the concept of the hero, the savior, or the leader. This concept offers an inner sense of security to people who are afraid of freedom. Some human beings are afraid of freedom.”
Interviewer: “Because it is synonymous with anarchy?”
Adonis: “No, because being free is a great burden. It is by no means easy.”
Interviewer: “You’ve got to have a boss…”
Adonis: “When you are free, you have to face reality, the world in its entirety. You have to deal with the world’s problems, with everything…”
Interviewer: “With all the issues…”
Adonis: “On the other hand, if we are slaves, we can be content and not have to deal with anything. Just as Allah solves all our problems, the dictator will solve all our problems.”
[…]
“I don’t understand what is happening in Arab society today. I don’t know how to interpret this situation, except by making the following hypothesis: When I look at the Arab world, with all its resources, the capacities of Arab individuals, especially abroad – you will find among them great philosophers, scientists, engineers, and doctors. In other words, the Arab individual is no less smart, no less a genius, than anyone else in the world. He can excel – but only outside his society. I have nothing against the individuals – only against the institutions and the regimes.
“If I look at the Arabs, with all their resources and great capacities, and I compare what they have achieved over the past century with what others have achieved in that period, I would have to say that we Arabs are in a phase of extinction, in the sense that we have no creative presence in the world.”
Interviewer: “Are we on the brink of extinction, or are we already extinct?”
Adonis: “We have become extinct. We have the quantity. We have the masses of people, but a people becomes extinct when it no longer has a creative capacity, and the capacity to change its world.”
(Emphasis mine.)
The only portion that puzzles is why Ali Ahmad Sa’id doesn’t quite make the connection to “understand what is happening in Arab society today”. The two traits he mentions in the quote I selected (dependency on “higher” authority and lack of creativity) are not simply related – the latter is the expected consequence of the former.
The rest at Memri.
Timely comment Doug! Ryan…not much has happened to forward the cause of human rights after more than three years post Taliban. That’s not acceptable on any level. We can’t be sacrificing Canadian lives in that country without consistent, significant and continued advances in the human rights of Afgan citizens.
My fear is that if Canada and other Western democracies don’t push a Bill of Rights, nothing will change. We have an opportunity to do it right and that doesn’t mean giving the Afgan government more time to do nothing. If nothing significant is being done now we have to go home! Anything less is weakness and failure.
Kate, I felt bruised, reading the tripe about your writing, posted by someone called John Daly. Me? I loved your pithy, spot-on comments. Later, I was delighted to see your kick-butt response: “dickhead”, indeed! How about “poltroon”, to boot?
steve d.: The Arabs were emasculated by the Muslim Ottoman Turks for 400 years (1517-1918).
http://www.zum.de/whkmla/military/arabworld/milxottomanarabia.html
http://arabic-media.com/mongol.htm
Tamerlane (Muslim) sacked Baghdad in 1401. And the Mongol Hulagu Khan sacked Baghdad in 1258 (“end…[of} the Abbasid Caliphate, a blow from which the Islamic civilization never fully recovered”).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad
By comparison, the Europeans hardly did any emasculating at all. That was done by fellow Muslims and the Mongols.
Learn some history.
Mark
Ottawa
steve d.
Don’t let the facts stop you from posting your drivel.
Well of course the the Muslim world gave us the construct known as Al Jabr; schoolkids learn it as Algebra.
By 2000 BC the Babylonians had a well-developed algebra which was capable of solving quadratic equations by using a general formula as well as completing the square. This Babylonian algebra and the one developed by the Muslims in the 8th through 12th centuries AD were based on words rather than the symbolic type which arose in the 16th century AD in Europe and is now used. The very name of the subject, algebra, comes from the title of al-Khowarizmi’s book on the subject, Hisab al-jabr wal-mugabalah, the science of reunion and opposition. In its everyday usage, al-jabr meant “reuniter of broken bones” or “bonesetter.” The Muslim mathematician Omar Khayyam (better known today as a poet and author of The Rubricat) even developed geometric algorithms (another word with a Muslim origin) for solving some cubic and quartic equations.
agitfact:
My father used to march past the hangers which contained the ME-262 Schwalbe as a youngster inducted into the Hitler youth. At age 14 he was sent to sniper school destined for the Russian front. He is lucky to be alive, as he went to the west instead.
You are correct that technological prowess is not a test for moral fibre.
How come Nazi Germany developed the first jet and unguided missiles, not to mention that envy of the Allied armies, the jerry can?
Off of the fear for their lives and smarts of their Jewish scientists before they got out and joined the Manhattan Project.
Read Solzenitzen’s “First Circle”(he lived it) and the “Gulags” to see how the Communists extracted science from their imprisoned.
The Soviets were a fraud…a Potemkin facade, my friend. They went down in flames when push came to shove. The US, via German emigre Jewish scientist from Germany, surpassed Hitler in military technology quickly because they were free.
I suspect that your average free enterpriser would have shut down and left for Switzerland long before 1944.
Really? German speaking Switzerland maintained its “neutrality” by banking the Third Reich’s loot and every thug since then banks there. They didn’t open their arms to the masses fleeing Germany.
You really need to read more on WWII.
steve d: And a relevant guest-post at “Daimnation”:
“Fast Eddie Said”
Played fast and loose with the truth about the Middle East in maligning “orientalism”…
http://www.damianpenny.com/archived/006033.html
Mark
Ottawa
“Do Germans care more about alleged torture, abuse, human rights violation and inhumane living conditions in Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib than about much worse conditions in Darfur and many other war zones?..”
The short answer, Mark, is “yes.” Remember,they were condemned internationally for those very things during and after the Second World War. The “tu quoque” defence (“you did the same thing”)was denied to the accused at the Nuremberg Trials, so you have to understand that the knights in shining armour blotting their copy book does have a certain interest to the German public. Most of them may have been born after the War, but they’ve carried the can for decades.
There is another factor that may come into play. A lot of the troubles in Africa (and the Middle East) have a colonial past, so there may be a tendency to let the former colonial powers deal with them. I suspect that Germany would support international efforts at solutions, but I would not expect them to try to lead the way.
Just another of my attempts to show that reasonable explanations can be found for apparently strange things.
Hans: I always enjoy your comments, and I have to say that my father remembered the Me-262 Schwalbe as well. Parked on a tarmac. He was a U.S. Soldier in the XX Corps of Patton’s Third Army. It was one kick-ass machine, that’s for sure. Say, what ever happened to Schwarze-Tulpe? He used to post here.
Ural I like it when you call me a slut, it shows your good breeding.
Ural I know Canada is the USA’s largest supplier of oil. I also know two other things. One, Canada cannot supply US needs. Two, the USA’s own supply just may have peaked and their supply will only decrease from now on while of course, their need for more oil will only increase. So guess what URAL? They are going to need increasing amounts of middle east oil. We in Canada have a stable population. We appear to be as constant and regular as the sun. So they don’t have to send in the troops on some pretext. The middle east is quite the opposite kettle of fish.
ol hoss
I like your Fascism piece. I agree. The government did have immense control over orders etc. This is mainly because most of their spending was for armaments. Most big spenders get a lot of say when they order armaments.
The USA doesn’t have as much say about price because they can’t allow the military industrial complex to start bringing in slaves. The government does have a say about most other things though, as they should.
CANADA NEEDS SOCIALISM
If there was no left then the Liberals would have to go farther right to pick up Conservative voters. Liberals wouldn’t have to to have any policies that please the Left because the Left would have no choice but to vote Liberal or not at all. The Conservatives would be forced to move farther Right where the Fascists are.
The presence of the Socialist left pulls the Liberals left. The Conservatives have more room on the Right. They don’t have to court the FAR right because they don’t need to.
So you see the political setup in Canada is very healthy. The Socialists on the left help prevent
the politics from swinging too far Right. The presence of the Conservatives helps keep the country from swinging too far left. The vast majority don’t want either political extreme. That is what Canadians are basically politically moderate. Everybody gets a little attention but nobody runs away with everything. We are far luckier than the Americans politically. They don’t have a Left. The Democrats and Republicans are both right of centre. I think there is always a danger of the rise of American Fascism.
agitfact: Perhaps you might read “Germany admits Namibia genocide”:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3565938.stm
That was the territory formely known as German South West Africa–“a colonial past”.
http://www.zum.de/whkmla/region/southafrica/germanswa.html
But the point of the post I mentioned was that it is odd the German media should go berserker over whatever the US does, while paying much less attention to much more serious abuses by others.
By the way, the Germans may do something, briefly, in the Congo–but not try to lead about Darfur. Why?
“Darfur: NATO willing to help UN; EU eyes Congo”
http://www.damianpenny.com/archived/006045.html
Mark
Ottawa
Regarding that Reichmerchwatchamacallit- Presumably they hadda come from Germany, and speak German, to get onto that. (SNC Lavelin and Bombardier, anybody?)Jesus loves you! Go to your church and wait!)
Do Germans care more about alleged torture, abuse, human rights violation and inhumane living conditions in Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib than about much worse conditions in Darfur and many other war zones?..”
Did they care about Saddam’s or the Taliban’s genocides? Are they active in making a difference in the ME in a constructive way? Why has virulent anti-Semitism resurfaced in Germany if they are so contrite? Why did Schroder accept an immediate position at Gazprom upon retirement when Putin’s thuggist human right’s violation of Mikhail Khordorkovsky and his Yukos company are well known?
Basically, who gives a damn about Germany which with France are the two most useless countries in the western hemisphere.
Living conditions aren’t inhumane at Guantanamo. The creeps are lucky thay are living as non-uniformed captures in a field of battle. International Law says they could have been executed then and there. They have no Geneva Convention rights.
Oh, Penny, you are so drearily pernicious.
1. I don�t think that there were many Jewish scientists working in Germany after 1938, and it would be safe to assume that none would have been working on sensitive projects during the war. How would you account for the ungodly rush between the Russians and the Americans to get their hands on German scientists at the end of the war and to “persuade” them to work in their respective countries?
2. Do you suppose that unlimited resources and manpower have something to do with superiority of military technology?
3. When �push came to shove�, the Soviets destroyed over 160 German divisions on the Eastern Front. The most the Western Allies faced between Norway and North Africa was 70. Some �Potemkin fa�ade,� some going down in flames (to borrow from a well-known orator.)
4. Swiss borders always were permeable to money, not to fleeing masses. I think that the average German “capitalist” could have managed it.
As to my reading more about the War, Penny, so far I�ve had no problem putting the boots of fact to your opinions.
Kate, Kate, Kate,
You need to exercise that index finger a bit more.
You, know, the one that hits the “ban the moonbat” button?
If you don’t, your bandiwth will eventually be all consumed by quotes from Marx, Moore and Marcuse.
How utterly boring.
Mark, the Germans had to turn their colonies over to the Entente after WWI, and Hitler never got a chance to get them back, so why should they be concerned about subsequent events in Africa?
Penny, I have already gathered that you don’t give a damn about France and Germany and other European countries (UK excepted.) Nearly two weeks ago I asked you how you developed your expertise in European affairs, but you never answered whether it was fact-based or “x”-hand.
I agree that Gitmo prisoners do not have rights under the Geneva Convention, but that is a matter of force-majeure fact, not entitlement. When you don’t shoot a franc-tireur out of hand, you have to make him a POW.
doug, as always I second your request.
Steve from BC,
“Ural I like it when you call me a slut, it shows your good breeding.
Ural I know Canada is the USA’s largest supplier of oil. I also know two other things. One, Canada cannot supply US needs. Two, the USA’s own supply just may have peaked and their supply will only decrease from now on while of course, their need for more oil will only increase. So guess what URAL? They are going to need increasing amounts of middle east oil. We in Canada have a stable population. We appear to be as constant and regular as the sun. So they don’t have to send in the troops on some pretext. The middle east is quite the opposite kettle of fish.”
I’m guessing you are a retired teacher. Maybe re-read what I posted. Do you have any FACTS do back up your babble? If so, please post, prove me to be ignorant (proviso … something that is real … like, fact based).
“Harper has proven himself more nimble at international politics than the White House this week. This case provides a clear example of the difficulties in bringing democracy as a guarantor of human rights to the ummah, and it puts the US in the position of criticizing the government it desperately wants to support. Understandably, Washington does not want to give the impression that Karzai lacks our support. It could undermine Karzai and the democratic government we have worked hard to build if we start issuing ultimatums.”
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/006585.php
Ural
Here for proven oil reserves in North America:
http://www.energy.gov.ab.ca/docs/oilsands/pdfs/NAOR2003.pdf
Here for world picture on oil:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves
Notice: that the US oil supply has already peaked some time ago
also even though Canada has an excellent supply of oil it is only 1/5 of the middle east reserves
It is easy to see why the US has a very large presence in the middle east.
End of a long thread. Few will notice this..
The problem is the profit in opium and the gang leaders that wealth creates. Transition away for those crops will be slow and bumpy.
Taliban twisted Khoran law enables Iran influenced clerics to hold Afghani and Iranian people in an iron grip.
The grip allows them to milk the people’s wealth and hold total power.
Iran is now nervous however… They released dissident writer Ganji and…
The Sunday Times March 05, 2006
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2070420,00.html
Nato may help US airstrikes on Iran
Sarah Baxter, Washington and Uzi Mahnaimi, Tel Aviv
WHEN Major-General Axel T�ttelmann, the head of Nato’s Airborne Early Warning and Control Force, showed off an Awacs early warning surveillance plane in Israel a fortnight ago, he caused a flurry of concern back at headquarters in Brussels.
It was not his demonstration that raised eyebrows, but what he said about Nato’s possible involvement in any future military strike against Iran. “We would be the first to be called up if the Nato council decided we should be,” he said.
Nato would prefer the emphasis to remain on the “if”, but T�ttelmann’s comments revealed that the military alliance could play a supporting role if America launches airstrikes against Iranian nuclear targets. TG
10Words.ca
Well that’s a blah ending.. must be more to it.
Ural
One more important number. 20 million barrels a DAY were needed by the USA in 2003.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/aer/pdf/pages/sec11_21.pdf
I am having a difficult time with the case of Abdul Ramon. Are we not in Afghanistan to help the citizens of that country to stabilize and possibly bring democracy to them. To prevent this country from being a training ground for the terrorists. I understand that each country has their own court systems and rule of law, but does this attitude even sound civilized. Even if he is freed his life will be in danger. I know Christianity in the middle ages did their share of absurdities, but it matured. I am beginning to wonder if sacrificing our own soldiers to this cause is worth it. Seems our men and women would be considered infidels – so why should we help those who’s intentions would be to eliminate us.
Why are the Canadian Muslims so quiet about this. They were vocal when it came to cartoons. If the Muslim community expect to ever be considered part of our nation by those who have blended in then they had better start speaking up soon. This is definitely a war of Religion and it will escalate till we are all involved.
I am pleased that our Prime Minister has spoken up. If this attitude cannot be changed then I will have a change of heart about our enlisted being in that country.
steve d,
“It is easy to see why the US has a very large presence in the middle east.”
I am a simple country boy … I can’t join the dots. Please show me why the US’s biggest supplier, can’t supply them … and why reserves matter anything? Can anyone tell me why Saudi is pissed at the US because they suggested alternative fuels? … just asking.
When �push came to shove�, the Soviets destroyed over 160 German divisions on the Eastern Front.
With the help of Lend-Lease.
Martin B
“If nothing significant is being done now we have to go home! Anything less is weakness and failure.”
Let me get this straight, anything less than turning tail and running, at the first sign of adversity, is weakness and failure? I really don’t understand this attitude of surrender. Are you just a troll trying to diseminate you message of pascifism?
We’ve been there for 3 years! That’s not very long in military terms, the US still has personel in Japan and Korea. I just don’t understand, you claim that you want the military to accomplish something there, but you would deny the time to do so.
As far as the deaths of Canadians in Afghanistan, I don’t want to downplay the sacrifices of our troops but so far there have been 10 casualties, thats not exactly WWII numbers.
Our noble objectives must be accomplished, anything less shows weakness and failure.
Ural
The Middle East has over 700 billion barrels of oil in reserve. The US has 40 billion left. Canadian producers are planning to build a pipeline to the west coast so they can sell some oil to the Chinese.
The Saudis are sitting on the largest reserves in the world. They have big plans to sell for many more years. They don’t want alternatives just yet. They have been very loyal to the US at some cost to the Saudi family within the country. They would like their loyalty returned.
The US would like to centre their Middle Eastern bases in Iraq. They build as we speak. Then they could remove them from Saudi Arabia. This is a big complaint of the Muslim fundamentalists. They resent American bases in the Middle East to begin with but Saudi Arabia has the Holiest sights in all of Islam. They think it is scandalous the Great Satan sits close to Islams holiest sights. So maybe if the Americans move their bases off Saudi soil things will cool down a bit. At least that was the theory before all hell broke loose in Iraq.
The Saudis are sitting on the largest reserves in the world.
Well no, they’re not. According to the USGS unconventional oil such as Venezuelan heavy crudes are approximately equal to the identified reserves of conventional crude oil in the Middle East.
The catagory of “proven reserves” doesn’t include all oil. Only that which is, at present, economic to extract.
Steve d,
Now you understand how ignorant I am. I thought that Saudi would be interested in their biggest customers … not the smallest.
Never even heard about the pipeline to supply China … I thought THEY were buying from the ME for now anyway.
What I learned on this board today:
1) Everything is for the US oil requirement.
2) If the US doesn’t require the ME oil they are bad.
3) If the US requires the ME oil they are bad.
4) The US is bad.
5) May as well throw it in … PMSH is scary … can’t figure out if Canada is in the same boat as 1), 2), 3) above … we import oil also.
Is bananas a bad thing? We don’t grow them here?
Ryan, my attitude is far from surrender. You think I’m a troll pacifist? I don’t think I am but I also don’t believe in losing people for nothing. Please try to comprehend what I’m saying (backed up tonight by a good piece by Rex Murphy, if you care): the current Afgan government isn’t much better at this point than the Taliban one it replaces. Unless there is dramatic improvement in how the Afgan government treats its’ citizens Canadian soldiers dying to defend it is an utter waste.
I don’t want our soldiers dying for nothing. As said by Stephen Harper, Canada’s main mission four our soldier’s must be to bring freedom to the Afgan people. That mission cannot be accomplished without the Afgan government supporting full basic human rights of all its’ citizens.
I believe Canada doesn’t want to lose another one of our soldiers if all we are doing is propping up a government unmotivated to establish a Bill of Rights. There’s no other option. If the Afgan government won’t act then it must be allowed to die instead of our soldiers.
thanks “ol hoss” for the direction to http://www.Mises.org I think the way they explain econ. without too much emotive garbage is very helpful… especially on a topic such as the lack of a substantial difference (in freedoms) between socialism of the Germans or the Soviets.
The official estimates of the amount of RECOVERABLE oil in the Alberta tar sands (175 billion b.), are based firstly on those 300 billion b. thought to lay in the top 100 metres of earth. So the US Geological Survey isn’t too keen on guessing what lays under that… after all it could be… another + 300 billion barrels… Or not.
Of course it’s going to take a few years to really clear away and burn the top layer and by then, “cold fusion” or something will have come to my kitchen.
I’d expect cold fusion, before I expect a muslim reformation… although at this moment either would be ok for me. I cannot believe that the USA is in the ME over secure oil, it is a lazy discussion. There are too many other things.
Going back to the original string here, I remember proud lands, glorious and free, not too much red tape, where people from all over the world came to find freedom from tyranny. And where we stand now, a land where the govenment MAY still decide it is better at raising children than parents. It is something in our society and theirs that has brought the civilizations to each other’s throats. It is freedom. of expression, of thought, of religions (plural here), to doubt, and to prove what is correct by having that ability to doubt, without fear of being blasphemous or an infidel.
Freedom, what a concept.
Iraq oil..oil platforms off Basra..let me dig that out..
Iraq Oil Under Marine Guard
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9072-2072762,00.html
The key to Iraq’s economic future
By Michael Evans
Our correspondent joins the multinational forces protecting the offshore rigs that are crucial to maintaining Iraq’s flow of oil
FOURTEEN miles off the southern coast of Iraq stand two oil platforms. Huge 48in- diameter pipes snake along the seabed towards them. Above them, on the surface, military forces including the Royal Navy do everything that they can to protect them, because those platforms and the pipelines that feed them hold the key to the economic survival of Iraq.
Suicide bombers in a fast craft have tried once to attack them and the assumption is that others will try, too. Understandably, the world’s attention is on the mainland, where multinational forces are trying to hold the country together and prevent all-out, bloody civil war, but the social and political troubles besetting Iraq are overshadowing the potential vulnerability of its economy. [Michael Evans] TG
http://www.10Words.ca
Now I get it! Hitler = Stalin = Ed Broadbent
Back to the powerful Canadian Jewish Lobby for just one moment…..You right wingers are getting sucked in….big time….Are you just a bunch of war mongers? What’s wrong with you…Don’t you understand that blind right wing extreme rhetoric is just as bad as the Liberalist side?
For those of you who are not yet convinced: Here is a quote from this article from the Canadian Jewish Congress.
“With Iran showing no sign of backing down, Mr. Harper may soon have to decide whether to involve Canada in a western military response if the United Nations is unwilling or unable to rein in Iran’s nuclear ambitions.”
http://www.cjc.ca/ptemplate.php?action=itn&Story=1628
Read the entire article. It’s scary, only from the sense that the powerful Jewish lobby in Canada is moving us increasingly to choosing sides and away from our position of neutrality.
And what follows are my comments about all of this, especialy the dangers of the powerful Jewish lobby in Canada –
Of the four last judges appointed to the Supreme Court of Canada three were Jewish. Martin appointed three judges, one French and two Jewish, and the one appointed by Harper was also Jewish….Rothstein. Now, out of nine judges, four are French, three are Jewish, and only one is an anglo/saxon/celt. There are reports all over the Internet that at least Martin was harrassed by Jewish lobbiests to the point where he just got fed up and made the appointments they wanted.
Now, we have a list of potential candidates for the federal Liberal party. It is an interesting list when one checks the ethnic backgrounds of some of the candidates. Rae, as reported on Wikipedia is considered to be Ontario’s first ‘Jewish’ premier. Godfrey is Jewish. Stronach is a HUGE BACKER of the Jewish community, as evidenced by her speeches. Ignatieff writes a lot of material for a Jewish based magzazine in the USA, and has talked often about being a ‘zionist’.Not that there is anything wrong with the Jewish community….but let’s get real, they form LESS THAN ONE PERCENT OF CANADA’S POPULATION. They probably also control a hugh amount of Canada’s wealth. Just how much is the big question???? Ralph Klein is Jewish. Most of the people who want to replace him are Jewish. Most of Canada’s current wealth is in Alberta. Many of the country’s finance ministers are Jewish…..
Why do our prime ministers acquiesce so much to the Jewish community that forms less than 1 percent of Canada’s population??? Is it because, through Canwest, they control a massive amount of Canada’s media. With a minority government were Martin’s and Harper’s hands tied?
Maybe this is the real reason so many high profile potential leaders of the federal Liberal party are choosing to stand aside. Face it, would you want to deal with a powerful Jewish lobby that is determined to take our women and men soldiers, most of them anglo/saxon/celts, practially none of them Jewish, into terrible military action in the middle east, to see Canada forced to choose sides when we never had to before??? Could you, as a prime minister faced with such decisions, actually get any sleep at night? Who has been moving Canada closer to terrible consequences in the middle east? Harper? Martin? or a sinister and powerful Jewish lobby?? And are they using this crap about anti-simetism to shield their true agenda? I certainly hope not, but all of Canada should be concerned, and should not be afraid to express their opinion about this. Maybe the real problem with the Liberal party is not that it is in shambles, but rather, is the Jewish community attempting to take over complete control of the party?
Read all of the article I linked to and judge for yourself….The Jewish lobby in Canada is so powerful, possibly the most powerful lobby in the country.
http://www.cjc.ca/ptemplate.php?action=itn&Story=1628
NOW, IF ANY OF YOU WAR MONGERS ARE ACTUALLY ANGLO/SAXON/CELTS….MAYBE YOU SHOULD THINK REALLY HARD ABOUT WHO IS DYING OVER IN THE MIDDLE EAST. BE THEY AMERICANS OR CANADIANS, THE VAST MAJORITY ARE ANGLO/SAXON/CELTS. WHAT THE HELL ARE WE DOING LETTING OUR SONS AND DAUGHTERS DIE ON FOREIGN SOIL BECAUSE OF ARAB/JEWISH CULTURAL HATE WARS? Are there ANY Jewish Canadian soldiers serving over in the Afghanistan? My intention is to point out just how powerful the Canadian Jewish Lobbiest have become…..BE WARY RIGHT WING WAR MONGERS.
Canadians must not be afraid to speak up about the powerful lobbies operating in Canada, and the culturally biased media that supports and shields them.
Der Joos are coming…der Jooooos!!! Same old, same old crap.
A Left Lady Speaks Out.
“Some of the women’s ‘sexual crimes’ were having been raped by one of Saddam’s sons.
One of the women executed was a doctor who had complained of corruption in the government health department.”
Pamela Bone joins with Christopher Hitchens in rejecting the Bush Derangement Syndrome.
Come out, lefties; Walk on the sunny side. +
The Humanitarian Case For War In Iraq (Jeff Jacoby On A Rare Liberal Defense Of The Iraq War Alert)
Townhall.com ^ | 03/23/06 | Jeff Jacoby
Posted on 03/22/2006 10:57:12 PM PST by goldstategop
“I wondered at first whether the women were exaggerating.”
The writer is Pamela Bone, a noted Australian journalist and self-described “left-leaning, feminist, agnostic, environmentalist internationalist.” She is writing about a group of female Iraqi emigrees whom she met in Melbourne in November 2000.
“They told me that in Iraq, the country they had fled, women were beheaded with swords and their heads nailed to the front doors of their houses, as a lesson to other women. The executed women had been dishonoring their country with their sexual crimes, and this behavior could not be tolerated, the then-Iraqi leader, Saddam Hussein, had said on national television. More than 200 women had been executed in this manner in the previous three weeks…. Because the claims seemed so extreme, I checked Amnesty International’s country report…. Some of the women’s ‘sexual crimes’ were having been raped by one of Saddam’s sons. One of the women executed was a doctor who had complained of corruption in the government health department.”
Bone’s words appear in an essay she contributed to “A Matter of Principle: Humanitarian Arguments for War in Iraq,” a 2005 collection edited by Wellesley College sociologist Thomas Cushman. To read her essay this week, with the war entering its fourth year, is to be reminded of the abiding moral power of the liberal case for the war. While most of the left was always opposed to liberating Iraq — a subset of its comprehensive opposition to President Bush and all his works — a small but honorable minority never lost sight of the vast humanitarian stakes: Defeating Saddam would mean ending one of the most unspeakable dictatorships of modern times. Wasn’t that a goal anyone with progressive values should embrace?
That was why, “in February 2003, when asked to speak at a rally for peace, I politely declined,” Bone writes. “But I added, less politely, that if there were to be a rally condemning the brutality Saddam Hussein was inflicting on his people . . . I would be glad to speak at it.”
But condemning Saddam’s brutality, let alone doing something to end it, was not a priority for most of the left. I remember asking Ted Kennedy during the run-up to the war why he and others in the antiwar camp seemed to have so little sympathy for the countless victims of Ba’athist tyranny. Even if they thought an invasion was unwise, couldn’t they at least voice some solidarity with the innocent human beings writhing in Saddam’s Iraqi hell? Kennedy replied vehemently that he took a back seat to no one in his concern for those who suffer under all the world’s evil regimes, and demanded to know whether supporters of war in Iraq also wanted to invade North Korea, Burma, and other human-rights violators.
It was a specious answer. + more
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1601461/posts
Since I didn’t get banned overnight, let me summarize my interest in this site (and some of its worthy bloggers)by citing a few words of wisdom from to-day’s Ottawa Cititzen’s editorial on the crusades:
“The difference between propaganda and history is that one is black and white and the other has shades of grey. Propagandists don’t like nuance and ambiguity, which explains why they too often are the enemies of historical truth.”
When there is no need to agitate against your propaganda with historical facts and questions, agitfact will happily fade away.
dddkinear,
the Jewish judges appointed to the Supreme Court are liberals, so there is a flaw in your logic. The majority of so-called powerful Jews in Hollywood and the media and the Democratic party and the Liberal party are all left-leaning, anti-American, and basically anti-Jewish and anti-Israel. They have swallowed, hook line and sinker, that the Jews “stole the land of the ancient Palestinians and the poor poor ancient Palestinians who lived there since time immemorial are the victims of Zionism”. The majority of my post-Jewish liberal-leftie family feels this way.
You will find Jews on all ends of the political spectrum though – they tend not to be monolithic in their political (or any) views.
Did you ever think that Israel and Canada have lots of things in common? both are democracies, same heritage, values, etc.
Only in some universe of moral relativism would Canada be able to remain, as you seem to long for, “neutral”. Canada does need to pick sides and decide if there is right and wrong.
The reason statists of all stripes, and the bureaucracy-worshipping secular left, have a ideological kinship with the despots of Islamic theocracy is simple….. hero worship.
Hidden deep in the heart of your secular control freak ( social activist/social engineer) lies a suppressed envy of the power these Islamo-fascist despots have to inflict their will on a helpless, cowed and reliant public. Call it a professional courtesy of ideological despotism…statist socialists will understand this affinity….for sceptics and objectivists, try this experiment:
Next time you hear some statist twinkie (utopian leftist) spouting off about all the needed state enforced changes we need to socially engineer his socialist utopia, ask him what he would have the state do with dissenters….will they be allowed to openly dessent, resist or opt out of his state enforced utpoia or will they be arrested and sent to re education gulags? 😉
Thought you faded away.
Commence with the facts any time, agit.
Your “boots of fact ” are Dorothy’s ruby slippers.
“There’s no one like Noam …There’s no one like Noam.. There’s no one like Noam”
Doesn’t work in real life, just like socialism.
Also your bloviating third person references to yourself are nice.
dddkinnear or is it kkkinnear?
15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.
dddkinnear you said…
“NOW, IF ANY OF YOU WAR MONGERS ARE ACTUALLY ANGLO/SAXON/CELTS….”
“…dangers of the powerful Jewish lobby in Canada…”
“a sinister and powerful Jewish lobby?? And are they using this crap about anti-simetism to shield their true agenda?”
Have you listened to yourself lately? When Kate ran a thread about our most recent supreme court judges nomination you tried to hijack that discussion into a diatribe about the great Jewish conspiracy. Now she runs a thread about Islamic creativity or the lack of it and here you are again spouting racist conspiracy theories.
According to the definition in section 15 above, why shouldn’t you be charged with promoting hatred with your public anti-semitic comments?
I am not Jewish, I am an anglo-saxon-celt, one that you keep bringing into the discussions, trying to make it “us against them”. There is just “us”. We are all Canadians.
As for your quote from the CJC on “Harper may have to make a decision”, well duh, of course he will at some point have to make a decision if things continue to go the direction they are. They are merely pointing out the obvious.
“…away from our position of neutrality.” What makes you think that Canada is neutral? Last time I checked, our soldiers were still in Afghanistan helping to fight the war on terror on that front. It is hardly a position of neutrality. I’d like to see you argue after 911 why we should be neutral? We are number 6 on the Al Queda “hit list”. Doesn’t seem like much room to be neutral there.
It is your kind of world view that gave rise to the Nazi’s ability to dehumanize a people and nominate them for extinction. I am not calling you a Nazi, only that promotion of this kind of rhetoric is dangerous.
Why do you suppose that the Jewish people formed lobbies in the various countries where they lived after WW2? I suppose the said to themselves “Never again!” 6 million of their own slaughtered because of their race. If it were me, I would try and find ways (lobbies, public office, etc) to have my voice heard as well.
I don’t know what others think on this site but I don’t think it is right to boil everything down to “the Jews are to blame for everything”.
Daniel
Richfisher, stick to gutting yellow perch, but don’t run with the knife.
Daniel
There is a deep anti-semitism strain in Canada.
This is not unusual. I believe it is present everywhere. A Christian legacy that just won’t go away. Our anti-hate laws and public condemnation of those would blame 1% of the population for 90% of its ills. The hopeful part is that much of this anti-semitism is unconscious and seeps out in ignorance as opposed to hate.
Daniel:
So, at least you acknowledge the existance of the powerful Jewish lobbies. That’s a start….The REAL problem is that there are NO powerful anglo/saxon/celt lobbies, nor do we anglo/saxon/celts control ANY OF CANADA’S MEDIA. The Jews control much if not most of Canada’s media, and nearly 100% of America’s media. That control, in combination with their powerful and rich lobby groups is DANGEROUS. They have only one percent of Canada’s population, but a HUGE amount of power and voice. It is mostly Anglo/saxon/celt soldiers who are dying in Afghanistan and Iraq. How many Jewish Canadian/American soldiers are dying? I demand a voice for my people, and if this is the only way to get it, I will take it.
Furthermore, why is the Jewish controlled Canwest taking over control of much, if not most, of IRELAND’S media? A country full of idealistic celtic warriers!
And there you go again with your anti-semitism crap……….trying to shut people up. If Germans controlled all of America’s media and most of Canada’s media, and if they also had the most powerful lobbies in either country …..everyone in the world would be screaming about it.
I am only concerned about Canada moving away from its historic position of neutrality in the middle east. That’s all. Don’t ready any more into this.
Steve
“The hopeful part is that much of this anti-semitism is unconscious and seeps out in ignorance as opposed to hate.”
I was over to visit Cerberus’s site yesterday. Ted is running a thread now that started with a report about one of the Bush ancestors having Nazi money in the institution that he partly managed. I think he was an investment banker or something similar. Ted had all of the Bush electoral victories won by Nazi money (no mention of huge oil money in the family) I was reading through the comments in the thread. They had the Bush family responsible for the Kennedy assasination, the attempted assasination of Ronald Reagan, etc. In Liberal thought, the Bushes are villified and responsible for everything, perhaps including the common cold.
The point is, it is no secret that the Liberals hate Bush and will use any opportunity to promote that hate because they feel it suits their agenda. I am not sure what dddkinnear’s agenda is but it seems that this anti-semitic rhetoric is not “unconscious and seeping out in ignorance”. There is a deliberate attempt to demonize the Jewish race and create suspicion based on ones own prejudices. I don’t see any evidence (if there is, take it to the RCMP) of wrong doing or law breaking on the part of the Jewish people that dddkinnear points out. They all appear to be successful pillars in our societies who have stepped up and taken the weight of responsibility on their shoulders. Perhaps in some Liberal circles that is a crime.
Perhaps if dddkinnear wants to discuss this he/she should lobby Kate to start a discussion and we could all sign in as Daffy Duck, Mickey Mouse and Dumbo, put on out tin foil hats and discuss conspiracy theories but until then I think it better to leave the racist rhetoric out of public discourse.
Daniel
(Sorry Kate for straying so far off topic,there are some things I find provoking, public promotion of anti-semitism is one one of them. Have a great Day!)
dddkinnear,
Sorry, I posted before your last post came through. The “anti-semitism crap” happens to be a part of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
You wanna compete…go start a newspaper, nobody is stopping you, it is a free country.
As for the lobbyists. It is no big secret. There are lobbyists for all kinds of things. Again, get your group together and go lobby. No one is stopping you. It is a free country.
My point is you don’t have to continue to spout anti jewish rhetoric in a public discourse. You are, in my opinion promoting hatred against an identifiable group (race). It seems to me that this is dangerous legal ground to be walking on. Just my opinion.
Daniel
I hate it when people don’t know what they are talking about, so I’ll educate all of you courtesy of the Oil Sands Discovery Centre.
The recoverable oil from the Oil Sands could keep Canada, at it’s current rate of consumption, and with it’s current rate of growth, fed for 435 years. The Oil Sands could feed the entire world at current rates of consumption for 15 years without skipping a beat.
Alberta’s oil sands contain the biggest known reserve of oil in the world. An estimated 1.7 to 2.5 trillion barrels of oil are trapped in a complex mixture of sand, water and clay. The most prominent theory of how this vast resource was formed suggests that light crude oil from southern Alberta migrated north and east with the same pressures that formed the Rocky Mountains. Over time, the actions of water and bacteria transformed the light crude into bitumen, a much heavier, carbon rich, and extremely viscous oil. The percentage of bitumen in oil sand can range from 1% -20%. The oil saturated sand deposits left over from ancient rivers in three main areas, Peace River, Cold Lake and Athabasca. The Athabasca area is the largest and closest to the surface, accounting for the large-scale oil sands development around Fort McMurray.
Since the 1920’s, open pit mining has been central to oil sands development. Mine equipment from the early years was scaled up significantly when large commercial operations started to come on line. The first large scale commercial operation, Great Canadian Oil Sands (now Suncor Energy), introduced German manufacturer O&K bucketwheels from the coal mining industry when they opened in 1967. Syncrude Canada Limited opened in 1978 and introduced gigantic draglines 60 times as large as the bucket on display from Bitumount, the first commercial oil sands plant. These large machines were connected to the processing plant by a system of conveyor belts. Today, large trucks and shovels have replaced draglines and bucketwheels as a more selective, and cost effective way to mine oil sands. The process begins by clearing trees, draining and storing the overburden and then removing this top layer of earth to expose the ore body. The equipment must be durable and strong enough to withstand extreme climate and abrasive oil sand. Mining never stops, the trucks and other equipment work day and night, every day of the year. Planning is an essential and continuous part of the process.
Geologists, surveyors and mine engineers play a considerable role in the mine planning process before any heavy equipment is introduced. The mine plan must commit to return the area to it’s former environmental condition. G.P.S. is used extensively to pinpoint mining areas.
Dr. Karl Clark, a scientist working for the Alberta Research Council, developed and patented the hot water extraction technique. Building on earlier experimentation by Sidney Ells and others which used hot water to separate oil from oil sands, Dr. Clark’s work brought the process to a commercial scale. Oil sand is mixed with hot water creating a slurry. Early methods used large tumbler drums to condition the slurry. Today, hydrotransport pipelines are used to condition and transport the oil sand from the mine to the extraction plant. The slurry is fed into a separation vessel where it separates into three layers – sand, water and bitumen. The bitumen is then skimmed off the top to be cleaned and processed further. Secondary recoveries are made with the middlings zone of the separation vessels to return the smaller quantities of bitumen that would otherwise flow to the settling ponds. Ph levels and temperature are key variables in the process.
About 80% of the oil sands in Alberta are buried too deep below the surface for open pit mining. This oil must be recovered by in situ techniques. Using drilling technology, steam is injected into the deposit to heat the oil sand lowering the viscosity of the bitumen. The hot bitumen migrates towards producing wells, bringing it to the surface, while the sand is left in place (“in situ” is Latin for “in place”). Steam Assisted Gravity Drainage (SAGD) is a type of in situ technology that uses innovation in horizontal drilling to produce bitumen. In situ technology is expensive and requires certain conditions like a nearby water source. Production from in situ already rivals open pit mining and in the future may well replace mining as the main source of bitumen production from the oil sands.
Challenges facing in situ process are efficient recoveries, management of water used to make steam, and co-generation of all (otherwise waste) heat sources to minimize energy costs. Other methods of in situ recovery look promising, and are in research stages of development.
The oil in oil sand is called bitumen, a complex hydrocarbon made up of a long chain of molecules. In order for bitumen to be processed in refineries, this chain must be broken up and reorganized. Unlike smaller hydrocarbon molecules bitumen is carbon rich and hydrogen poor. Upgrading means removing some carbon while adding additional hydrogen to make more valuable hydrocarbon products. This is done using four main processes: coking removes carbon and breaks large bitumen molecules into smaller parts, distillation sorts mixtures of hydrocarbon molecules into their components, catalytic conversions help transform hydrocarbons into more valuable forms and hydrotreating is used to help remove sulphur and nitrogen and add hydrogen to molecules. The end product is synthetic crude oil, which is shipped by underground pipelines to refineries across North America to be refined further into jet fuels, gasoline and other petroleum products.
It must be noted that some of the oil companies pipe their bitumen south in diluted form for upgrading at other refineries. Others produce either a single high quality synthetic crude oil or multiple petroleum products to suit market feedstock demand.
Once the final product is shipped by pipeline to refineries, an environmental footprint remains. This can include open pit mine holes, process water dykes and emissions. Minimizing the impact to the environment begins by understanding the complexity of eco-systems. This information is used to help develop reclamation plans that determine how to return productive areas, to a self- sustaining, productive state, as required by all lease agreements. An important part of this process is state of the art environmental monitoring programs and communication with stakeholders including environmental groups and aboriginal people. This is an area of ongoing research activity, and while improvements in environmental stewardship have been made, huge challenges remain. Protecting the environment is a shared responsibility involving industry, government and consumers of hydrocarbon products. These products include gasoline, fuel for our homes, and petroleum chemical products like plastics, fleece and even toothpaste!
The primary difference between crude from places like Saudi Arabia and Venezula is the type of crude, lighter and sweeter, therefore less costly to refine, as opposed to our, which requires much more in the refinement process. As well, the Saudi stuff for example is in shallow basins, quickly accessable.
There is so much oil in the world, it’s almost impossible to quantify it. We haven’t even begun to scratch the surface of our own reserves.
What makes Alberta special in this regard is several factors:
1) We are a stable country. You can spend money developing resource here and you don’t spend your time paying off corrupt officials, bandits, rebel armies etc…
2) We have a market economy, so you don’t worry to much about some yahoo coming in and nationalizing your company.
3) Heavy infrastructure and development is already available. You don’t need as many roads etc… most are there, and just need expanding on.
4) Edmonton, a metropolis of over 1 million people, provides all the major raw labor, parts and materials, and infrastructure support a company could ask for.
5)Calgary, a metropolis of over 1 million people, provides the crucial planning, development, engineering, and banking resources that you might need.
6) Pipelines already exist, and more are being built. No one blows up our pipelines, so it’s safe to turn your back on them.
7) It costs money to ship fuel. It costs money to pipe it too, but you can pipe more than you can ship for less than you pay to ship. There is 300 million thirsty consumers south of the border, who spend a shit load of money on their military, insuring supply, when they could just spend that money on Alberta’s Oil Sands.
Long and short of it is as long as oil stays above $45 dollars a barrel, we are digging it up. We’ll keep digging it up, and we won’t stop digging it up even when newer energy sources become available, because your talking about retooling an entire world.
We still haven’t actually finished converting North America over to things like Natural Gas… so there’s no worries about sales or supply for quite a while yet.
Oh, one other thing, Ural, and I think it’s SteveD, and Marc from Calgary (who should hang his head in shame for not knowing this:),
Canada provides approximately 10% of the current US requirements.
Canada is not an importer of Oil.
Saudi Arabia currently provides 25% of the US consumption.
Alberta, in the next 4 years, will increase it’s export to the US by approximately 200%, accounting for 30% of it’s consumption needs by 2010.
We are also in throw’s of a new pipeline being built to the Pacific Coast, where our Gas will be frozen and shipped to Southeast Asia.
Until the MCkenzie Delta Pipeline project is settled out and built, the Americans are taking absolutely nothing from the Anwar, as they have no way to get it home.
hmmm… “thanks” I’m not slighting the USA… if you think so.. nope. I hope they are in the ME for more reasons than “only the oil”.
There is some oil imported into Canada.. it isn’t significant. and we remain a “net exporter”
I know the Oil Sands Discovery Centre has something to say about this. I am pointing out (now) that the financing of these projects, is largely dependant on the US Geological Survey saying that Alberta has this or that much recoverable oil. Alberta could have 10 trillion?, but it wouldn’t exist until the Geological people in the USA say it’s so; also, I think that with new technologies, a much higher percentage of oil may be extracted from this area than we think.
The USGSurvey is looking at updating the amount of oil it says we can recover.. June 2006 I think.
additionally, the oil from Venezuela is light, but not sweet. It is real high in sulphur, and when exported to the USA, needs to go to refineries designed to handle this, (and owned by CITGO) Which makes Hugo’s persistant threat to send “his” oil somewhere else like China, a non-starter, as they don’t have refinery capacity for this sour oil.. at least not for the next 2 – 3 years.
as an aside to this conversation, Encana recently sold its out of country holdings (in Ecuador for example) reasoning… why should we look for oil? It is all here.
I agree.
So Daniel – It’s only okay to be able to blast away at Muslims. It’s not okay to hear the opinions of people who are disinterested parties, apart from the fact that it is their own people – the anglo/saxon/celts who are dying in the middle east.
I am merely pointing out the fact that the Jewish people control most of America’s media as well as much if not most of Canada’s media. In addition, at least in Canada they have demonstrated that they have powerful government lobbies that are now seeing their own people put into the Supreme Court and taping telephone conversations with Harper about Hamas. These are Canadian Jews lobbying about mideast matters. Seems like they are not disinterested parties to the mideast problems. So….I point out the danger of having the Jewish population control our media comgined with having the most powerful government lobby groups in the country….a fact that they seem unwilling to report on to Canadians in their media….. Let’s think of it this way. If Germans controlled Canada’s and America’s media and had the most if not ONLY cultural lobby groups in the countries, everyone in the world would be screaming about it….Yet I can’t even talk about this????? And so many people spew Muslim hatred on this and other media outlets in Canada…They’re not called racists, but I am, when I am neutral, standing outside of this conflict.
You are right, there is a need for an anglo/saxon/celt media outlet, especially since it is our boys and girls who are doing most of the dying in the middle east for someone elses hatred and foreign causes. And don’t doubt it for a moment, one of the issues to be addressed in that media source will be the question of who controls the media in the countries where we anglo/saxon/celts have the greatest population, along with the fact that we anglo/saxon/celts seem to be the people who are being dragged into the middle east hate wars.