All groups in Gaza, including Hamas, would now accept a cease-fire deal with Israel which would include releasing Gilad Shalit, according to the Palestinian Agriculture Minister, who also heads the coordinating committee of Palestinian organizations there.
Ibrahim Al-Naja said the factions were ready to stop the Qassam rocket fire if Israel’s ceased all military moves against the Palestinian factions in Gaza. They are also ready to release Shalit in exchange for guaranteeing the future release of Palestinian prisoners.
Hamas leaders did not confirm this report on Monday, but if it is true, then this is the first time that Hamas has indicated its acceptance of the Egyptian proposal to solve the crisis.
We’ll see, I guess.
Funny how the Arabs always want to have a bit of a ceasefire when they’re losing. It’s almost like they want time to regroup, re-arm, and get the propaganda machine spinning in their direction. I think the term for that is “hudna”. Let’s see if Isreal, and all the rest fall for it, yet again…
Nice start, but I feel the stumbling block will once again be unrealistic prisoner release guarantees that will be demanded.
Interesting how a non-appeasement policy plays out. As per your last post Kate the real story here is the diversion of international attention.
But that is waaayyy to factual for many. Rather I suggest this course of action.
There is a window of opportunity here for the Israelis. A push deep into Lebanon followed by a quick withdrawal to be replaced by a peace keeping force consisting of General J. Layton, Commander B. Graham and for good measure Peace Mother Shehan.
That sounds about right. I’m sure they can muster an army of the best and brightest the left has to offer to once and for all clear this little squabble up.
Hugs all around!!
Syncro
The Euroweenies are big on Head-Chopper appeasement and cease-fires as long as only the Israelis will suffer the inevitable suicide bombings, kidnappings and constant rockets fired at them. But notice when the Israelis ask for an international force to give them a buffer zone there are no volunteers from the Eurabians – talk is cheap when someone else pays with their lives, eh? But the moment it might cost the phoney Eurotards a few lives, they suddenly have no time to get involved in the area. Pathetic!
It would be good if this is true. Good for Gilad Shalit and his family and the rest of Isreal and good for getting the whole thing to settle down if Isreal can do the deal and Hezbollah can see they have a reason to make their own deal.
the name Gilad Shalit will be legendary wherever he chooses to raise his family, for the symbol his trial represents re the value Israelis place on the lives of their own and the lengths they will collectively go to in order to maintain those lives.
see, THIS is the core essence of why Israel continues to survive in the face of enormous opposition: when push comes to shove they remain united. a single arm, a single voice, rising in unison against the aggressor.
it isnt paranoia or xenophobiism; far from it, they are acutely aware of the precipitousness of their situation in that wonderful sliver of land and the strategies necessary to keep it their own.
Robert J, honorary Jew for a day.
I’m with deity on this one. Prisoner exchanges aren’t happening. Sharon’s exchange in 2004 for a businessman was his coup de grace chess move to get these groups to do it again AFTER he pulled out of Gaza. This was his strategy to show the world how much peace the Palestinians really want and they fell for it hook line and sinker.
A prisoner exchange now would simply be giving in to terrorism.
when Britain was hit with V1 rockets in june 1944,did anyone think the response was overreacting?
not the invasion— the bombing of the launch sites. The Germans at the time didnt hide them within civilian houses, but there was collateral damage as the bombs at the time were not aimed.
One word: hudna.
Why aren’t the world’s relief agencies clamoring to get in to see the kidnapped Israelis, to ensure they are being humanely treated?
Where’s Amnesty Intl? Where’s the Red Cross/Crescent?
This just proves that Hamas equates strength with force. Israel is pulverizing Hezbollah and Hamas knows that unless it negotiates a ceasefire then they’re next, and that has them in a scramble to undo its inciteful action.
Israel, imo, should absolutely cease to relent on Hezbollah and scare the living shyte out of Hamas. Instead of negotiating a ceasefire, Israel should publicly inform Hamas that unless they Gilad Shalit unharmed they’re next.
Enough of the negotiation with terrorist factions. It NEVER benefits Israel.
Commenter at Belmont Club has made his choice.
Said it before; will say it again:
Choose your side;
Freedom and democracy; or,
chaos and nihilism, aka Death.
There is no nuance when confronting Evil.
Stand for Israel. …-
The question is whether the free world has learned anything from history or are we doomed to make the same errors of the past 100 years. Some in the Arab world are beginning ‘to get it’ that things might be different. A few more in EUrope and Blue America are starting to see the line of demarcation and choosing sides.
It’s likely simpler than that.
The terrorist factions have been cut off from Iranian resupply for over a week. Most of the Iranian army who were showing them how to fire their rockets are likely casualties or escaped.
They’re not making any “concessions”, they’re just running out of rockets.
Even Hitler tried to set up peace negotiations when he realised he’d likely lose. It didn’t work then, it shouldn’t work now.
Increase the volume from the rocket fire, then you can use the excuse,… “we could’nt hear the phone” when they call to beg a ceasefire.
“Schaaalome! thanks for calling, sorry we missed your call, we are not able to come to the phone right now as we are out offing koranimal bitches, please leave a message and your co-orrdinates,… beeeeeeep”. 🙂
I think Mad Mike has a point; they are running out of supplies. And as Condi Rice points out, the whole situation in the ME has to change. A ceasefire isn’t enough. There are several layers to the situation.
The first is the Israeli-Palestinian situation, which has evolved, I maintain, out of a naive belief by the Israelis that the Palestinians will simply disappear over time and don’t need their own state. An arab is an arab is an arab. That’s simply not valid; Israel has to accept the reality of a Palestinian state. And not a municipal state (aka Oslo Accords) but a real state where resources are negotiated and etc. That means get rid of the settlements. All of them. And it means moving the palestinians out of the peasant mode in whcih they have been kept, by Arafat, by Israel, by the UN, by the other Arab states.
Then, the other problem is Islamic fascism, which has moved in to merge with the Israel-Palestine situation, and which uses the Palestinians as proxy-fighters for Islamic fascism.
Islamic fascism is a direct result of the failure of the ME nations to modernize and move out of tribalism, which empowers only a minority and into democracy, which empowers the majority.
And, we have a third factor, which is inevitable everywhere; that is human corruption and fallibility. But the serious issue here, is the legitimization of corruption within an international agency, the UN. The UN is completely and totally corrupt.
To read that the Hamas/Hezbollah were able to go into Israeli territory, wearing UN uniforms, and by bribing the UN – means that this official system must be treated AS IF it were part of, as if it were aligned with world terrorism.
Just to set up a truce with Hamas/Hezbollah is pointless unless the basic problem, that dysfunctional infrastructure of tribalism, is changed. That means allowing Iraq to develop and modernize; same with Afghanistan.
Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria – they have to be ‘brought to heel’.
Forget ceasefires.
The only thing that’ll be any good is a total surrender of the terrorists… or a total wiping out of them.
It’s war. Ceasefires and diplomacy are irrelevant. Victory is what matters now.
The ways of the past only gave the enemy time to regroup and rebuild, preparing for jihad later on. Hamas, Hezbollah, AQ, etc. and Islamofascism must be destroyed. They must surrender fully and unconditionally or else.
ET:
Yes, those dictatorships will have to be dealt with. They can no longer be ignored in the modern world. Which is why this war will be the longest and potentially dirtiest in history. Changing the basic personal worldview of millions of people will take at least a generation, but is not avoidable in the long term.
The UN is a self-serving joke consisting of nieve bureaucrats and outright criminals- No surprise, that is how most of the member countries are themselves governed.
I will personally cede credibility to the UN when I can personally vote for my UN rep. Until then, the UN will remain a quasi-criminal organization.
Canadian Sentinel – I don’t think your suggestion is viable.
Total surrender of the terrorists? They aren’t a legitimate army; they aren’t the military of a nation, with the national gov’t there to fund and order them to war or to surrender. Therefore, ‘they’ can’t surrender, for there is no Supreme Commander of their ‘forces’.
They are TERRORISTS; this means, they are a self-organized militant groups of individuals, who make their own decisions, and who are ideologically, not authoritatively, linked up with others…Nothing to do with a nation’s gov’t.
And you can’t ‘kill them all’.
Therefore, your two suggestions are unrealistic and belong in a Cowboy Frontier movie.
What has to happen is an overhaul of the economic and political infrastructure of the ME. That will empower the majority of citizens there, rather than a minority, and will move fascist extremism to a small minority, controllable by the legitimate empowerment of that majority of the population.
That is, ending terrorism has to be a structural change.
ET,
Why is it Israels responsibility to recognize and set up a Palestinian state? Why don’t all the surrounding Muslim states create Palestine? Isn’t it their responsibility, if anyones? And obviously I would think, another Muslim state is not in Israels best interest. I don’t think Israel could count on Palestinians behaving once they have their new state, do you?
Typical Muslim tactic – when you’re losing, negotiate a settlement before you’re pulverized and then spin it into a great victory for Allah.
“The Israelis did not give us Gaza — they fled from it”
MEMRI ^ | 7/25/06
Hamas terrorist training and indoctrination movie. They have no interest in peace, only killing Jews and taking Israel on the way to “forcing all the world to worship Islam.” And we are trying to negotiate with these people? View movie here. …-
Link to MEMRI from:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1671830/posts
What was really needed was a regime change in both Syria and Iran not an invasion of Lebanon. Lebanon’s invasion was simply because Israel and the US did not go after the real culprits when they should have, assuming of course they should have at all. I still say a couple of well placed cruise missiles in both Damascus and Tehran may have brought about this change without any long term involvement or ground forces. If successful it would have given the moderate forces within these Countries a window of opportunity and at worst the same thing different people.
irwin Daisy, it is Israel’s responsibility to recognize a Palestinian state, something which it has so far refused to do. A nation, not a set of municipalities (Oslo). That means that Israel first recognizes a Palestinian state and withdraws fully from the occupied lands.
Second, the Palestinians are going to need help from all ‘sides’ of the problem. You have, essentially, a people who have been refugees, ie without a national identity or national political structure – for a whole generation. To mould this disparate hodge podge, held together, not by national aspirations but only by emotional hatred against The Occupiers – is a task for all sides.
The Arab states have never been interested in Palestinians, considering them, as I’ve said, illiterate peasants of no interest to them. They aren’t interested, even, in a Palestinian state. The primary interest of the Arab States it to maintain tribalism and prevent their own majority populations from attaining power in their own states. Palestine has been a handy ‘externalization’ of this internal problem.
As for Israel not wanting/needing ‘another Muslim’ state, no country has the right to dictate the religious identity of its neighbours.
Western Canadian – who, exactly, would you suggest go in and accomplish this ‘regime change’ in Syria and Iran? You suggest the US and Israel. Why? Yet another world use of the USA – we would then see enormous world marches against the USA, just as we saw with regard to Iraq. Why should the US bear the burden of all this?
I believe the response of Israel has been more than measured. Don’t buy the rhetoric about ceasefires. Hamas and Hezbollah strut across the border, punch Israel in the nose, then plead for a ceasefire. Never again. Israel routinely drops leaflets in civilian areas warning of an imminent attack encouraging civilians to leave. I don’t recall Hezbollah dropping one single leaflet on Israeli civilian areas they continue to target. On September 11th, I’m fairly certain there was not one single leaflet dropped in NYC, warning civilians of the impending slaughter. The Israeli army is probably the most skilled, humane army on the planet. No ceasefire till Hezbollah is history.
ET, this time we’ll have to agree to disagree. It’s possible you’ve missed some facts. Could happen to anyone.
ET, of course it’s true that we cannot get rid of all jihadists.
What I meant is that Islam, the jihadist, supremacistic, etc., part thereof, must be eliminated.
Your suggestion would require conquering the M.E. via war and occupying the Islamic nations in order to effect what you said. It cannot be done peacefully. Why not? Well, I suggest you embark on some serious discovery of what exactly Islam and Islamists are about. Without this understanding, you cannot understand the situation.
Tell me, what do you KNOW for sure about Islam and Islamofascism? How much serious investigation have you done? Have you investigated what the Koran says? And do you know that millions of Muslims take the whole thing literally?
It’s important to know that. Before you can prescribe solutions to the M.E. situation, which is far, far more serious than I think you realize.
Then again, perhaps we just have a different way of approaching things which sometimes will lead to differences in analysis.
ET
The terrorists can be defeated even though they are not a army. Any movement can be dismantled if demoralized enough. As we are seeing today and in the past the Arabs turn tail and run when it begins to get tough or go against them.
Half measures militarily have been the hallmark of the West in the middle East for 2 decades with the status quo being maintained on the terrorists side. Always able to regroup and begin again.
Should Isreal be able to isolate and siege the terrorists in Lebonan then maybe their utter destruction can be achieved. That in turn will show the rest of the ME that the West has stopped fooling around. Appeasement has passed, this is War with all it’s Ugly brutal ramifactions.
The terrorists are brutal, merciless, and cowards.
Vastly superior strength and the will to use it to the end will eventually suck the life from the cause of terrorists.
As for the Palestinians the rest of the Arab world has as much if not more resposibility to create a real Palestinian state. Just because they are uninterested is no excuse to ignore the problem. If you believe that the creation of the a Pal state is a concern to the Arabs because it could weaken their own empires and will not participate the Palistinians will have to help out their own cause and that means coming to the table not with terrorist representation but with ligitimate civil government.
Should that occur then the Isreals may be moved to help, until such time that or as long Palistineans cling to the old beliefs they will wander the wilderness.
Canadian Sentinel – yes, I have read the Koran; Yes, I know about fascism; Yes, I know about Islamic fascism. Yes, I know the history of the ME and yes, I am quite aware of the seriousness of the situation.
And no, my suggestion for an infrastructural change does not require a military operation to conquer the whole region. Absolutely not.
The ME states have to realize, on their own, that they cannot continue to operate within a tribal infrastructure. It’s untenable for the size of their population – to have that majority population barred from political and economic power and to have that power confined to a minority. The ME states are fighting this inevitable.
But, the introduction of democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan are two important ‘nodes’ for change in the area; that’s why the ME, i.e., Iran and Syria are fighting democracy here, because it will ‘seep’ through the rest of the states. The ME attempts to divert the majority population attention from democractic power, by focusing on Palestine, won’t work; the attempt to divert attention by an apocalpytic utopian mass hysteria (Islamic fascism) also won’t work.
Jeff Cosford – no, I disagree; the ‘utter destruction’ of the terrorists can’t be achieved without changing the infrastructure in which terrorism is nurtured.
The ME states are not interested in Palestinians, first, because they are considered ‘low class’ and second, they aren’t interested in setting up a democracy in that area! That’s why it’s important for Israel to take that step, rather than, inadvertently, assisting the ME states in their anti-democratic modes.
And a people without an infrastructure can’t readily, on their own, set up such a structure. The Palestinians require help to do this. Not UN help which keeps them as ‘rabble’ rather than an organized society.
The ME states of Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Lebanon and Egpyt do realize that change is necessary. SA in particular, has been fighting it, but, it is now faced with a new spectre of domination. Iran. Now, that’s shaken up the whole area. The notion that Iran has imperial ambitions to conquer the whole ME, and subdue the Arab States, is finally become clear to the ME. This is a very important shift, for the focus is changing from ‘Against Israel and Against Democracy’ to ‘Help! Iran is out to get us!’
Iran is behind Hamas and Hezbollah; Iran has weakened the legitimate government of Lebanon, to use it to foment a ME war. Iran uses Syria as its puppet. Iran is behind the insurgency in Iraq.
The ME states might well have focused their attention on Israel, as a tactic to prevent their own requirement to change from tribalism to democracy..and to prevent Palestine from being yet another democracy.
But, with the emergence of Iran, which is NOT Arab, and which has open, blatant, imperial ambitions – the story is shifting.
mad mike:
when did hitler make any peace overtures?
with the russians?
before or after battle of the bulge?
are you confused about that mysterious rudolf hess flying to scotland thing?
ET:
Good analysis.
Which should bring us to economic issues – in this case, oil. Dictatorships are notoriously inefficient. We’re buying oil from tribalist dictators, allowing them to survive economically when they should have collapsed from sheer inefficiency long ago.
IMHO, if the British Empire had colonized and maintained governance of the ME as they did other territories (such as Canada and Australia) the framework for free democracies would already be in place. In other words, we’d be a couple of generations ahead of where we are now. The situation has now become untenable.
So, we either must defeat them and install puppet regimes, (such as Iraq and Afstan) or stop buying the oil. As politically incorrect as this may sound, “liberal empire” would likely be a better solution. Simply cutting off the money would soon lead to a “Kilkenny Cats” situation among the tribes, and millions would die before a successful democratic, market economy would evolve on its own.
Yes, I’m suggesting we (the western world) bite the bitter pill, and admit a liberal empire must be formed. The old British Empire is gone, but it left good things in its wake (like the US and Canada). Something must needs replace it, at least until the rest of the human race grows up.
No, I’m actually not an Imperialist, more a Libertarian, but it would be far better to temporarily control them than to kill them.
An Islamic terrorist with a stolen Lee-Enfield in 1927 is acceptable, an Islamic terrorist with a stolen nuclear weapon in 2007 is not…
robert j:
Yes, the Rudolf Hess thing is one example, and from what I have read he was sent as a peace envoy when radio and written communications from Germany were (correctly IMHO) ignored by the British. If this is incorrect, (I disremember where I read it)please feel free to educate me…
mad mike – I agree that the legacy of British colonialism is far superior to that of any other colonial power.
France, for example, has left a legacy of anarchy – eg. Haiti, Algeria, Ivory Coast, Lebanon and etc. France set up a two-class state, with the entire local population as ‘low class governed’ and themselves as an elite set of governors. There was no interaction. There was no middle class, unlike the British Empire.
I strongly disagree with your definition of the current gov’ts of Iraq and Afghanistan as ‘puppet’. They are not; they are legitimate, democratically elected governments of the people of each nation.
I also disagree with you that the West should ‘go in’ and ‘wipe out the ME’ and ‘install democracies. No democracy has ever been set up by such a tactic – and that includes Iraq and Afghanistan.
Both countries were liberated from dictatorships – and power given to the people. The problem in both countries is two-fold; a dictatorship deliberately does not set up any political or economic infrastructure that can be run by an elected body; and, the other ME states don’t want democracies in their midst and have moved in as insurgents to foment unrest. It will take time, but, they’ll succeed.
As for the ME, I think that the ‘internal seismic shift’ has already occurred. That shift is the emergence of Iran, a non-Arab state, with imperialist ambitions. The other ME states don’t want to be under Iran’s control. This is an important shift, and I think (I may be wrong of course) that it is what has been needed, to ’tilt’ the situation and enable these states to slip into democracy.
Before, they were safe; they could buy their way out of having to be democratic by oil. Then, as their population pressure increased, they moved to externalize the pressure by fomenting anti-Western hysteria via Islamic fascism. But now, not only is the West fighting back against this fascism, but, Iran – right in the middle of the ME – has suddenly raised its dragon-head.
That was unexpected. The ME states can’t buy their way of this; they can’t divert attention from this by anti-Western hatred. It’s right in the middle – and – Iran’s agenda is not focused on the West. It’s focused on the ME; it wants to be Emperor of the ME. Now, that’s quite the tectonic shift…and I think that’s something to watch.
ET:
I didn’t say “wipe out the ME”- someone else did.
Maybe my use of the term “puppet regimes” was too blunt,(a spade is still a spade, negative connotations notwithstanding) but what would happen to the democratically elected government of Hamid Karzai if the PPCLI and everyone else left today? Taliban back in, elected or not.
Likewise, if the Coalition left Iraq today, the next incarnation of Saddam would emerge to fill the gap. If we had left Germany by Xmas 1945, the Nazis would likely have come back. A “puppet regime” of some sort must remain in place long enough for the regular citizen to learn how freedom and democracy works, and that political power does not come from the barrel of a gun, as it does now. After that, fine.
We are not ruled by a British governor backed up by the British Army today, but we were for a couple of generations.
Someday I hope that the Canadian Army can hand their guns over to Afghan police loyal to a democratically elected government, jump on a C-17 and fly home.
Just not today.
mad mike – yes, I agree with you that the Coalition cannot leave either Iraq or Afghanistan.
My point is that the governments in both countries are not puppet regimes, installed without vote or by manipulated votes, by external agents; they are genuinely democratically elected regimes. What these gov’ts lack is the infrastructure to control the country, especially when both countries are attacked by insurgents who wish to destroy their democracy.
So, until the people learn a civic mode of governance and how it operates, and above all, until the insurgents give up – the coalition armies (not governments) have to remain. It’s the military that is remaining; not any political agents.
Again, the nodal point in the ME now, is Iran, the dragon in the middle of them all. Now, Iran is far more to be feared by any ME country than Israel – for Iran has imperialist ambitions while Israel has none.
The late Arafat (cursed be he) holed up in Ramallah until he grew thin; his aides removed his bag of bones to France where he …-
Palestinians: IDF Surrounds Intelligence HQ In Ramallah (Asking Those Inside to Give Themselves Up!)
Ynet ^ | 7/25/06
Palestinian sources reported that a large IDF force has encircled the Palestinian military intelligence headquarters in Ramallah. According to the report, forces are using loud speakers, asking those inside to give themselves up. Sources in Ramallah expressed concern that the IDF would destroy the structure, as they claimed the IDF destroyed the Mukata a few days ago. (Ali Waked)
…- via free republic
Fox News Alert:
4 UN observers killed.
free republic
Jeff Cosford – no, I disagree; the ‘utter destruction’ of the terrorists can’t be achieved without changing the infrastructure in which terrorism is nurtured.
ET – infrastructure? I’m not sure what you mean by that. And, if it is the old “root causes” apologia that the left trots out, sorry, I’m not buying it. How about the Koran as the main infrastructure, that unifying spiritual and political entity which gives terrorists from motley tribes all over the ME permission to murder. How would one change that paradigm?
Geez, let’s review the Islamic infrastructure: women as chattel(hence, macho males dominate), modern commerce forbidden(forbidden to charge interest rates), anti-secularism, intolerance of anything not Islamic(dhimmis), scientific inquiry as bad, literature as bad, murder of anything designated as the other as redeemptive(jihad), polygamy is ok….I could go on and on. That’s the “infrastructure”. Basically, Islam has to go down in flames for this lunacy to ever end.
they can’t divert attention from this by anti-Western hatred.
They use anti-Israel hatred as the proxy, the gift that keeps on giving. Palestinians are deliberate and useful dupes in this like the present Lebanonese dupes. To their last drop of oil revenues, the Death Cult will finance their fanaticism and the dupes will do their murder and mayhem for them.
No democracy has ever been set up by such a tactic…..
Not true. Japan(never one), Germany(a failed one). And Afghanistan isn’t doing too badly.
penny – infrastructure means exactly what the word says: the internal structure or organizational properties of a system.
In a society, that’s first, its economic system, which is related to its environment (you can’t be agricultural in the arctic); which is related to its population size (how many people can that env’t and that economic mode support?). This system acts as a cohesive structure. It actually operates in a particular manner – dependent on the nature of the economy (peasant agriculture, industrial agriculture, industrial etc).
Linked to this, will be its political and legal systems. These are the basic and most important ‘infrastructures’ of a society.
The rhetorical or ideological systems, such as the religion, are the superstructure; they express, in images, the deep structure or infrastructure. So, the religion is not as important a cause as that basic economy and population size. The religion, after all, is man made; it’s a human construction. It can be changed. The way to change the religious paradigm, is to change the deep infrastructure – the economy and political mode.
The Islamic world is trying to prevent that required change to its infrastructure, and is misusing religion by setting up an Islamic fascism, to prevent any change. But, it’s an inevitable change. The population is too large for tribalism. The West went through this change in the period from about 1100 to 1500 AD.
I repeat, no gun forces a democracy to emerge. What happens is that the old dictatorships or tribal regimes are destroyed in war – and this enables democracy to emerge. Afghanistan democracy has not been created by guns; that’s impossible. The tribal dictatorship was destroyed by guns – which permits a democracy to be developed by the people.
Democracy can never be forced on a people. Actually, when the population is small and the economy is peasant and stable – the society doesn’t need democracy..and democracy would actually be the wrong political system in such an economic mode! For a small population, with a stable, no change pastoral nomadic or horticultural economy – the best political mode is tribalism!
But, when the population moves into the millions and the economy is industrial, then, democracy and a civic rather than hereditary political authority is required.
Democracy can never be forced on a people.
Wrong. Japan. 1944. 60 years and counting.
penny – I guess we’ll have to ‘agree to disagree’.
Democracy can’t be imposed on a population. Either the population are ready for it, i.e., have a large enough population and are in a market economy – or they are not. If they don’t have the population and the market economy, democracy won’t work. You can’t impose it.
Japan had, in 1944, the required population size and the industrial market economy. It needed to get rid of its tribal infrastructure – and the war did that. BUT – that didn’t mean that democracy was then inserted from the outside. That can’t happen; the population (size) and economy (market and industrial) was ready for it; take out the tribal infrastructure and democracy will self-organize.
et:
and how does one find out if the locals are ready for an experiment with democracy ??
Ive never heard any contention that democracy requires a threshold population size. where did you get that idea ???
Abbas: Release of Gene Shalit ‘imminent’
(AP) Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, who is on a visit to Italy, announced on Thursday that he had enough reason to believe that kidnapped daytime television personality Gene Shalit would be released very soon.
Abbas was speaking to reporters in Rome after talks with Italian Prime Minister Romano Prodi.
“I told the prime minister that as far as the question of the abducted Shalit is concerned efforts are undergoing continuously that lead us to believe that the solution will be imminent,” he said.
Shalit, book and film reviewer on NBCs Today Show was abducted on June 25, during a Palestinian attack against “anyone who looked like they were wearing a disguise, like a pair of those fake glasses with the mustache connected to it.” Two other minor TV celebrities were also captured in the attack.
The armed wing of Hamas, Izaddin al-Kassam, which is believed to be holding Shalit together with
other washed up TV personalities in the Gaza Strip, denied that it had agreed to release the film and book critic. The group said it did not know what Abbas was talking about and that Gene Shalit would be released only after Israel meets all the demands of the kidnappers, including keeping Gene Shalit and several other unnamed daytime television hosts back in America, not wandering around aimlessly in the middle of a war zone.
The initiative calls for an immediate halt to all morning show personalities on international flights into in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. In return, the Palestinians will announce a new hudna
(truce) and release Shalit as part of a prisoner swap with Israel.
The new initiative comes amid reports that Hamas has softened its position with regards to the case
of Shalit. ” He’s not such a bad guy when you get to know him. I mean, the Broke Back Mountain comments were a little strange and he looks very silly but he reccomended a great book to read while we wait for the armeggeddon.”, Hamas sources said earlier today.
Former PA security commander Jibril Rajoub, who serves as an advisor to Abbas, said he expected Shalit to be released sometime next week. Rajoub claimed that Hamas has agreed to release Shalit on
condition that Shalit “groom himself and stop looking so creepy like he’s wearing a disguise or something. I mean no one would deliberately look like that now would they?”
He said that Hamas was now discussing whether it should accept assurances that Israel would send several faded 90s girl bands to Lebanon in good faith after Shalit is returned home. “They have asked for time to study the possibility of accepting these guarantees” he added.
Another official pointed out that Hamas is under growing pressure from the Palestinian public to resolve the case of Shalit because of the “serious lack of film and book critics on daytime television. Indeed, where can america turn for comfort in this time of great turmoil and possible
world war? I think Gene Shalit is the answer.”
******the preceding was a parody of current news events. It is not to be taken seriously by anyone*****