At the Belmont Club, a lengthy list of the close calls INIFIL had already suffered due to their proximity with Hezbollah installations;
All the incidents of IDF fire reported in the press releases are clearly related to some kind of nearby combat with the Hezbollah. In one case the IDF fired on a village into which the UNIFIL had gone, but rockets had originated from the vicinity of the village prior. In another case, an Israeli aerial bombardment detonated mines all around a UNIFIL position. Those mines were presumably not planted by UNIFIL, but they were so close to it that the UN position caught fire. The UN observation post in Maroun al-Ras was hit by artillery, but we know from press reports that Maroun al-Ras was the epicenter of heavy fighting and the location of a Hezbollah bunker complex. The UN even ran a convoy from the Hezbollah “capital” of Bint Jubayl to another area. Bint Jubayl is well known to be the target of an IDF attack. Yet the UN felt that it was possible to move convoys through such areas, albeit at considerable danger.
One reason that they could was that UNIFIL was evidently in contact with the IDF. In a sentence which speaks volumes we learn that “One unarmed UN military observer, a member of the Observer Group Lebanon (OGL), was seriously wounded by small arms fire in the patrol base in the Marun Al Ras area yesterday afternoon. According to preliminary reports, the fire originated from the Hezbollah side during an exchange with the IDF. He was evacuated by the UN to the Israeli side, from where he was taken by an IDF ambulance helicopter to a hospital in Haifa.” This strongly implies that UNFIL was able to coordinate their movements with the IDF and that the IDF was willing to risk men and aircraft to help UNFIL.
Now a lot will be made of UN positions being “clearly marked”. However nearly all of the fire reported on UN positions with the exception of the July 23 indicident in Kiyam, where the 4 UN observers were killed today, were from artillery, which is an area weapon. Artillery, depending on the angle and range from which it is fired, has a certain dispersion even allowing for crew perfection. (In contrast UNIFIL took small arms fire from the Hezbollah between Kunin and Bint Jubayl and small arms can only be used when visual contact is made). Imperfections in shell manufacture, operator error, barrel wear etc can cause an artillery round to fall off target. It is not called an area weapon for nothing.
[…]
Their positions are manifestly so close to the Hezbollah; their convoys so at risk at being confused with mobile Hezbollah forces that only by the grace of God and the accuracy of the IDF have fatalities been avoided until now. They were willing to take the risk. Annan was willing to make the hay.You be the judge of Kofi Annan’s competence both in the care of his men and with respect to the accusation he has made against the IDF.
An interview with Lew McKenzie has more. (ram file) – an exerpt;
We received emails from him a few days ago, and he was describing the fact that he was taking fire within, in one case, three meters of his position for tactical necessity, not being targeted. Now that’s veiled speech in the military. What he was telling us was Hezbollah soldiers were all over his position and the IDF were targeting them. And that’s a favorite trick by people who don’t have representation in the UN. They use the UN as shields knowing that they can’t be punished for it.
.
Regarding the UN observers killed yesterday – below is a link to an interview this morning on CBC radio in Toronto with retired Maj. Gen. Lewis MacKenzie. MacKenzie states he knew the Canadian member who was killed and had been in recent e-mail communication with him. The observer had stated that Hizballah had been using the UN observers as human shields hoping to draw Israeli fire.
It’s the first interview of today (July 26).
http://www.cbc.ca/metromorning/
Also a interesting point of view from M Medved @
Townhall.com
It should come as no surprise that some of the same angry leftists who stridently deny Israel’s “right to exist” similarly challenge the claims to nationhood of the United States of America.
After all, the two allied and embattled democracies achieved independence in the same way – the patient settlement of largely desolate and under-populated land, the building of a new civilization virtually from scratch, and a long, bloody fight against determined, sometimes implacable opposition.
In order to place these realities in proper perspective, it’s first necessary to reject some thirty years of wildly irresponsible anti-Israel propaganda. First of all, it’s not true in any sense that the modern Jewish State ever supplanted or destroyed an existing nation of “Palestine.” From the time of definitive destruction of the ancient Jewish commonwealth in 70 A.D., the land that comprises the current State of Israel never enjoyed independent existence but, rather, passed back and forth among competing world empires—Roman, Byzantine, Arab, Crusader, Mamaluke, Ottoman and British. Over the course of more than 1,800 years, no nation with the name “Palestine” appeared on any maps, anywhere. The distinguished Arab-American historian Philip Hitti, professor at Princeton University, testified to the Anglo American Committee in 1946: ‘There is no such thing as ‘Palestine’ in history, absolutely not.”
Moreover, the Jewish title to the land of Israel received long-standing recognition from international organizations that didn’t even exist at the time of American independence. On July 24, 1922, the 52 governments of the League of Nations formally recognized and endorsed the British Balfour Declaration calling for “reconstituting….a national home for the Jewish people” in the land with which that people enjoyed “historical connections.” Twenty-five years later, the United Nations (successor body to the League of Nations) validated this title with the partition plan, dividing the British Mandate in the area into two states—one Jewish, one Arab. The Arab leadership violently rejected that solution, but after Israel’s bloody war for Independence the UN recognized Israel as a full member state in 1949.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/MichaelMedved/2006/07/26/does_israel_have_a_right_to_exist_does_the_us
Just thought you folks might be interested.
always at least 2 sides to a story eh?
anyway, OT:
drum roll please !!!
performance review of the harper government:
whatsisname a bomber pilot veteran is FINALLY given back pay exceeding 1 million when the mil ombudsman pushes hard for a review of his pension claim. check.
1 billion with a ‘b’ is allocated to include a huge swath of victims of the hep c tainted blood scandal. check.
harper supports Israeli response to this latest attack by hezbollah the iranian string puppets. check !!
3 for 3, so far, so good.
John B,
Great find. As the picture shows the Hesbos are setting up shop next door. WHy the UN would let that happen is beyon me. Personally I would have been telling them to move away, for that very reason.
Thank goodness Order of Canada winner General Lew is calling it for what it is. Why Kofi would take that position I have no idea. Perhaps someone better informed than I can comment on Mr annan’s position vis a vis Israel.
At the end of the day Kofi strikes me as the kind of guy who would spout whatever his advisors told him. This means it came from the people around him…and they are???
What do Syria,* Iraq, Lebanon and Jordan have in common with Israel?
Prior to gaining independence from French and British mandate rule in the 1930s and 1940s, none of these countries existed.
However, you’ll note that no one ever seems to question THEIR right to exist.
* Indeed, Syria is the only one to share something in common with Israel: it has the same name as an ancient kingdom or empire in the region.
According to a report in today’s Scotsman, (it’s online-check it out)- that ‘United Nothing’ Observation Post was hit by a BOMB, (not arty),
which “impacted the building and the shelter”, killing the unfortunate occupants.
Smells like a ‘bunker buster’ to me……..
The Scotsman (online), is worth a read, just for the comments on this topic- the best of those was posted by Alexander from Canada. (Ya got it right on that one, Alex)!
Annan: Gross negligence of duty.
Annan must resign now. …-
Kofi Annan Could Have Ordered Peacekeepers to Leave
The four UN peacekeepers killed in an apparently accidental airstrike on a UN observer post were required to stay there until ordered to leave by UN Secretary General Kofi Annan—an order he never gave. (Hat tip: vxbush.)
Haifa, Israel (CNSNews.com) – The four United Nations peacekeepers killed in an Israeli attack on their outpost were required to stay at that post “until they were ordered by the [U.N.] secretary general to withdraw,” said a member of the United Nations Truce Supervision Organization on Wednesday.
But the peacekeepers apparently never received such an order, despite the fierce cross-border fighting that erupted in southern Lebanon two weeks ago. …-
via LGF
” Kofi, who are his advisers ?” One is Canada’s owm Maurice Strong, Oak Lake MB. … of One World Governance fame, also Earth Charter fame, any yes, Kyoto .
Commenter at Belmont Club:
The_Head_Jimmy said…
So it seems, to me anyway, that the four UN Soldiers killed were not a part of the UNIFIL mission but were from a separate mission (UNTSO) and were “visiting” the UNIFIL compound for some reason. I wonder why? Maybe it was the safest place for them? I dunno. Sucks pretty bad to lose a troop to the Israelis though, accident or not. Goes with the territory I guess. I’m still waiting for official confirmation from Ottawa before I believe it. …-
“Sucks pretty bad to lose a troop…”
Yes it does.
That was going to be my next question: Who gives INIFIL its orders?
Is the answer really Kofi Annan?
I wouldn’t trust my life or anyone I cared for to this smooth-talking, dressed-like-a-banker leader-imposter. If Annan is the best the U.N. can do, then it’s obviously time to pull the plug on ALL U.N. forays into peacekeeping (sic) and war zones.
He doesn’t know his a** from a tea kettle.
Man, do you guys ever question anyone who isn’t one of the hated ‘liberals’? Israel blows up a UN post and it’s Anan’s fault or the crazy lefties again. I just want to let you know that it’s OK to breaks ranks once in awhile and admit that mistakes have been made or at that very least that Israel should not have been firing on a UN post.
War is such a nice, neat, orderly process. No mistakes ever happen when being fired on. You always have that current, up to date google map of the battlefield with combatants clearly marked.
Keep it up you Israel haters. You do more damage to your jihad with every comment you post.
enough
Hmmmm, maybe I’ve been too hard on Israel. The situation is just sooooooo complicated, and who can trust any news source these days?
I’ve an idea: let’s invite Israeli PM Ehud Olmert and whoever was in charge of the IDF unit(s) that just delibrately targeted and killed a Canadian peacekeeper to Canada to give a speech or something so they can educate the Canadian people on the plight of the poor, defenseless Israelis.
Now, some crazy commies might say that Olmert and his gang of thugs would be arrested for crimes against humanity the second they step foot in any self respecting first world country, but that’s just crazy tinfoil hat talk!
Paul, you have been provided with a wealth of informed commentary as to why this accidental shelling occured, and who was culpable – yet you seem incapable of absorbing it.
Of course, you have plenty of company in that – it’s why they remain “hated liberals”.
A UN peacekeeper in an interview states that they could tell that the kidnappers of the Israeli soldiers who were dressed as UN troops were Hezbollah “I wish we had done something ”
The Indian army is conducting an inquiry into report that Indian soldiers sold UN uniforms to Hezbollah for booze and Lebannese women.Hezbollah sets up outposts alongside UN outposts to prevent being attacked.UN does nothing WHY
Bob: evidence, proof, please that Israel “deliberately” targeted the UNIFIL post. They have ADMITTED that they made a mistake.
But I guess the only mistakes allowed are those from Hezbollah. If you read Kate’s most recent post, they fired on UNIFIL personnel as well.
Do your homework. That goes for you too, Paul.
Nuance, clarity, and hilarity by Josh.
Josh calls the Muslim Islamist terrorists:
“fighters”, “guerrillas”,and “militants”.
Oh, …. and “bodies”. …-
Israel Collecting Hezbollah Bodies
Josh Pringle
Wednesday, July 26, 2006
Israeli troops are collecting the bodies of Hezbollah fighters killed in Lebanon.
The military won’t say why it is keeping the bodies in refrigerated containers in Israel.
Israel has used the bodies of Hezbollah fighters in the past as a bargaining chip for prisoner swaps with the Lebanese guerrilla group.
Israel has said it would not negotiate with Hezbollah over the release of two Israeli soldiers the group captured earlier this month.
Israel has special cemeteries for Palestinian and Lebanese militants killed in fighting with Israel.
cfra.com
To whom do Canadians serving with UNIFIL report? Do they report solely to the UN? Or would they also report to Canadian Forces commanders?
I guess what I am asking is this: did anyone in CF command know what was going on in UNIFIL? Did our military, the Ministry — and ultimately the Minister — know that the UNIFIL bases were so close to Hezbollah positions? Did we know that UNIFIL may have been — inadvertantly or not — providing support and cover for Hezbollah?
Note that I am not trying to smear anyone here. I am not attacking our military, and I am certainly not attacking the Canadian soldier who died in at the UNIFIL post.
I just want to know what we knew — and what we should have known — about what the UN is up to while Canadians are serving there.
Jeff Cosford :
Excellent post. Informative as well. Thank you
I think it’s well known that the un hates israel! So what is the point of setting up un posts in a war zone. Wouldn’t be to help sheild the hez would it? Lets set Kofi up in the middle of town and see what happens. How about the story the other day about the un indian observers takeing bribes from the hez to let them attack and kidnap the israeli soldiers. Who keeps blowing up bus loads of people in israel, who keeps shooting rockets into israel, and who’s supplying them. What would you like the israelies to do? Lay down and die…. I say get the **** outa the way and let israel take care of these thugs! God bless israel!
To whom do Canadians serving with UNIFIL report?
They report to Romeo Dallaire
Kate-I’m perfectly capable of absorbing whatever either you or the CBC or whoever posts. What you posted is just as logical as what I’ve read a dozen times already today from a bunch of different sources.
My point, which I clearly did not get across, is that no matter what happens it seems that the pro-war camp is willing to blindly accept that Isreal can do no wrong in this situation. A handful of people have acknowledged that it was a pity to lose the UN observers, but generally most are blaming ‘liberals’ for everything.
Thanks,
Paul
Sorry, I meant Israel…
While there are denials about deliberate targetting, if this was the same post where that allowed the Hesbos in then it wouldnt shock me one bit if this was a “happy accident”.
The US did target the Al Jazzera bureau to send a message. Although that too was “a mistake”
No judgement here, just saying thing arent want they always seem. Additionally, why those observers are still in the middle of the war zone is beyond me, once again no judgement just an observation.
Being cold about all of this, Israel is defending itself, sad but true. I dont think anyone questions their right to do so. How different is it from Iran’s sovereign right to possess a Nuclear weapon, just like Canada has the right to have one, we just choose not to.
Dont swallow the rhetoric. Israel will defend itself, Lebanon should defend itself, notice they arent fighting the israeli’s except rhetorically. The lebanese want the israelis to do the job they can’t.
End result needs to be a sovereign lebanon that exerts the monopoly of power and authority in Southern Lebanon. Which means no Hesbos and no israeli’s. One of those two will elave willingly, I’ll let you guess which one it will be.
Wow. I didnt know Canada had Republicans. Arent you folk on the wrong side of the border?
I dont care much for the inherent bias but I have noticed a lot complain about how media coverage in Canada has been too leftist. Well, in any case, here are some inconvenient facts that dont reflect well on your heroes:
“UN peacekeepers in south Lebanon contacted Israeli troops 10 times before an Israeli bomb killed four of them, an initial UN report says.
The post was hit by a precision-guided missile after six hours of shelling, diplomats familiar with the probe say”
“The four unarmed UN observers from Austria, Canada, China and Finland, died after their UN post in the town of Khiam was hit by an Israeli air strike on Tuesday.”
“The UN report says each time the UN contacted Israeli forces, they were assured the firing would stop.”
“A senior Irish soldier working for the UN forces had warned the Israelis six times that their bombardment was endangering the lives of UN staff, Ireland’s foreign ministry said.”
Had Israel responded to the requests, “rather than deliberately ignoring them”, the observers would still be alive, a diplomat familiar with the report said.
Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has expressed “deep regrets” over the deaths.
Israel is conducting an investigation into the incident.
It has rejected accusations made by UN Secretary General Kofi Annan that the targeting of the UN position was “apparently deliberate”.
White House spokesman Tony Snow said “something went really wrong” to cause the deaths, but also said there was no reason to suggest the bombing was deliberate.
The UN Security Council is meeting to discuss the incident.” Its all on the BBC. Frontpage.
So tell me about your antiUN bias. As it is Canada is a tiny country with no real power of any sort. To put it mildly, the UN has given Canada a role to play in the world. We dont have a military, and even if we did, it wouldnt be as large as we would need it to be to be relevant in a world of million man armies. Canada plays to her strenghts. We have smart people, fine educational institutions, and a whole lot more money than most countries. Somebody has to take a moralist/idealist stance. Why not us? I suppose you d rather have us be spineless US sidekicks.
Now I know you Republicans love your FOX News and George Bush and America, but why dont you do the rest of us a favor, and move, instead of demanding that this country simply fly the Star Spangled Banner. A Canadian troop has died, but God knows it wasnt Israels fault. Nope it was the UNs fault for sending them there in the first place. I suppose there would be a whole lot more indignation if the victim had been American?
Altogether now, “o’ say can you see…”
yup.
Having spent six months on the Golan Heights, I feel somewhat qualified to answer Lickmuffin’s questions.
I believe it was/is common knowledge that Hezbollah has been building/built its positions close to UN positions. They have been doing so for some time and you can bet that the UN Military Observers reported it immediately when they began. Remember, all the guys on the post have to do is watch, so if anything happens, they tend to report it immediately.
As for the chain of command, while there is a UN chain of command, a parallel chain exists through ones own country, so that Canadian issues can be addressed. If a Canadian soldier was unhappy about something going on in the mission and it was not addressed through the UN command, he/she would be able to report to the CF what was going on.
There is no doubt in my mind the the CF has known for years that Hez has built positions right along side of UN positions and that this was reported, if not by the UN to Canada, then through Canadians to NDHQ. I am not that familiar with the specific mandate of UNIFIL, but I suspect that there was nothing the UN could do to stop Hez from building those positions. Remember, the UNIFIL is there to observe, and when they observe someone breaking the agreement, all they can do is report that. I doubt the UN purposely provided cover to Hez. The UN is a huge organization. Most mistakes are due to that plus incompetence, not on purpose. I have seen it many times.
My big surpirse about this situation is that UNIFIL personnel were not withdrawn immediately from the area when the fighting started. You would have something like 2-4 unarmed observers with little protection right in the middle of a war. My experience with the UN is that it is risk adverse, and I am surprised that they did not immediately pull ot the observers.
Anyone remember the UN inspectors leaving Iraq just before Gulf War 2?
Read somewhere that Annan was the first chairman to rise through the ranks, that he’s not an antisemite per se, but adopted the anti-Israel stance to advance to the top; in other words, standard “office politics”. It’s obvious though that the UN, which permitted a member to openly call for Israel’s destruction and other members to prominently display a map sans Israel, has allowed Hezbollah to use it as a human shield. Very effective propaganda as we’ve seen from some posters here, and my old friend who I thought had finally seen the light, but alas! no, as per e-mail this morning citing the deliberate attack on the UN. Sigh.
Mb — thanks for the comments.
Wow. I didnt know Canada had Republicans. Arent you folk on the wrong side of the border? … why dont you do the rest of us a favor, and move, instead of demanding that this country simply fly the Star Spangled Banner.
Left-wing gits still believe they and they alone represent “da Canadian values?” Amazing.
… the UN has given Canada a role to play in the world.
The quintessential left-wing view: Canada exists for the U.N., not the other way around. Similar to the way in which socialists believe that citizens exist for the government, and not the other way around.
Middleton,
Agreed. We should complain about Canadian soldiers being killed. We should be complaining to the Taliban about the killing of many more Canadian soldiers. Strenuously, in fact we should take action….
That being said, yes there is a little too much Israel is right even when its wrong here, but thats my opinion just like you have yours and others have their opinions. Live with it rather than say move….
As for the UN. Well it hasnt been terribly effective, even for Caanda. Just ask Mrs Kazemei’s family, or Bill Sampson, or even Mahar Arar. The Canadian government wasnt terribly effective in those areas either.
The story on the UNIL unit selling uniforms etc is troubling, would you not agree. Especially since the use of those uniforms is the immeadiate cause of the current conflict. Is the UN properly investigating that incident, or is it only the lives of UN soldiers that matter to the UN and not the lives of those they may have been accomplices to, albeit unwittingly.
As I said above it wouldnt surprise me one bit if the UN post was directly targetted, perhaps as retribution, perhaps because there were HEsbos taking refuge in there….Israel has a right to defend itself, but it will be be judged by itself and others on how it defends itself.
If you agree that the military arm of Hesbos must go and the Isareli’s must leave and the Lebanese should have full and effective sovereignty over their entire country then we have lots in common. We can defintitely debate the best way to acheive that, there may be differences but at least they are differences on methods and not end point.
But I wonder if there are more fundamental differences on objectives here?
Okay, Mb says that his “experience with the UN is that it is risk adverse, and I am surprised that they did not immediately pull ot [sic] the observers.”
My first reaction, since I’ve begun to read these posts, is why weren’t the U.N. personnel immediately pulled out of Lebanon once hostilities began between Israel and Hezbollah?
My second and very cynical reaction is, did someone want to blame Israel for casualties in case/once they did happen? Leaving the U.N. observers in war-torn territory just doesn’t make any sense, and it’s hard to imagine that Kofi Annan could be that stupid/negligent.
Plato’s Stepchild’s answer to my question “To whom do Canadians serving with UNIFIL report?” was “They report to Romeo Dallaire.” I’m assuming, because of ignorance in the field of the military and wars, that P’sS is being sarcastic…?
A few years ago I attended a Rotary Dinner (as a Rotarian’s guest), at which Romeo Dallaire was the guest speaker. I was looking forward to his talk, as he had just written his book about the slaughter in Rwanda. I was pretty sure that he was going to expose the U.N. for the corrupt and ineffectual organization it has become.
I couldn’t have been more disappointed.
Perhaps suffering from Stockholm Syndrome, Dallaire sang the praises of the U.N. I was aghast but, unfortunately, most of the people around me were entranced and swooning.
Go figure.
Now HERE’s a good one via LGF:
The Danish embassy in Lebanon was attacked in February by a Muslim mob enraged over the dreaded cartoons of blasphemy.
And Ahmed Akkari, the Danish imam who toured the Middle East inciting Muslims against Denmark, has just been evacuated from Lebanon—by the same embassy he helped burn down.
middlemuddler, simpleton, er, middleton:
I don’t know if you’ve noticed but the country elected a Conservative government and Harpers approval ratings are quite high. And I suppose you didn’t happen to read the first post on this thread did you? No, of course not, your mind is already made up. Anti-UN bias? There’s no bias here. The UN is a proven corrupt organization. But I guess you haven’t absorbed those facts either.
Perhaps you should consider your own suggestion and take your “idealist” stance elsewhere.
Middleton,
Excellent post (for a change).
Daisy Dukes,
Take your Zionist views to Olmert.
A little snippet of the whole situation by the Canadian Ambassador to Israel.
It is printed in the Toronto Star (the Red Crescent as we call it in Alberta), so there can be said to be no Conservative bent.
Its a short synopsis of events for folks with short memories.
This is Hezballas fault & other terrorist who have made a mockery of the word Peace.
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1153864209355&call_pageid=970599119419
Simpleton.
It’s obvious you don’t know the words to The Star Spangled Banner.
Or it seems from your comment , much of anything.
Fair enough, you sound like a dipper or lib, you’re supposed to be as dumb as a bag of hammers.
I’ll bet you could lead us all in a shrieking chorus of UUU LU LU LUing though.
News flash: Knee jerk anti-Americanism is no longer a Canadian value.
You lost the last election with that clever party platform plank.
Dallaire: I read his book. My nearly immediate impressions were: drastically out of his depth but bilingual. But I do believe he beat up on the UN and Kofi Annan.
Kofi IMMEDIATELY knew this was premeditated murder… but a day later, he’s climbing down trying to pry that foot out of his mealy mouth.
Hezbollah digs in close to civilians and the UN and everybody is shocked when there’s collateral damage.
Bob:
“Now, some crazy commies might say that Olmert and his gang of thugs would be arrested for crimes against humanity the second they step foot in any self respecting first world country, but that’s just crazy tinfoil hat talk!”
Aside from the lack of proof for the claims that Isreal purposfully targeted UNIFIL trrops, why dosen’t anyone level charges of War Crimes or Crimes Aagainst Humanity on the part of Hizbollah?
Also, please consider this excerpt from the Geneva Conventions (picked up on Andrew Coyne’s blog)
“The First Protocol to the Geneva Conventions reads in part: “The presence or movements of the civilian population or individual civilians shall not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations…. The Parties to the conflict shall not direct the movement of the civilian population or individual civilians in order to attempt to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield military operations.”
If you attempt to use civilians or in this case UNIFIL troops (civilians for all intents and purposes anyway?) as human shields, you are yourself guilty of war crimes. What is more, the responsibility for any civilian deaths that occur as a result falls on you, not the attacking party.
So if anyone is guilty of crimes against humanity its Hizbollah…….should be common sense.
So what does it take for someone to decide to criticze Isreal here? I’ve just moved up from the thread where someone said that the Canadian soldier deserved it because he was under UN auspices. Kate would you post that one on a remembrance thread for the widow?
Can Isreal do no wrong? If you think that, then I’d love to hear your opinions on the The Liberty or Pollard?
At the very least the attack was manifestly incompetent. It was a static position that had been there for years. How bad UNIFIL was, how close Hezbollah postions have been or how yucky the UN generally is, none of those are a legal, moral or tactical justificaton to attack the position.
Oh and before I get accused of being a terrorist supporter or any of the other nonsense some people here spout when they are contradicted , I’m not questioning Isreal’s right to defend themselves and if they can wipe out Hezbollah well and good. But that doesn’t excuse any act in pursuit of those goals
I don’t think people are saying that Israel can do no wrong.
Israel expressed regret and is investigating what went wrong.
Israel makes mistakes just like any other country. And they investigate and they press charges if there has been wrongdoing. (check out the proceedings of the Israeli Supreme Court or the tribunal which ended Ariel Sharon being a general, or all the times that IDF investigates questionable actions of soldiers.)
I think people are responding to the speed at which Mr. Annan concluded that Israel did it “intentionally”.
Goods points by gray and ex-lib.
The Israelis are no saints. They make mistakes. Did they target the UN on purpose? I don’t know but I find it unlikely. Just like any democracy, if they did, it will come out and someone will wear it.
Did Hez deliberately set up their positions close to UN ones hoping it would protect them or cause UN casualities if Israel tried to hit them? No doubt in my mind.
ex-lib is right. One side consistantly puts civilians at risk as part of their strategy, while the other goes out of its way to limit/prevent civilian/non combatant casualities.
Israel will do what it thinks is in its best interest, to hell with the UN and Canada. However if there is any doubt, I would give the benefit of that to Israel, until the evidence proved otherwise.
The dead Canadian soldier was actually part of UNTSO, not UNIFIL. UNTSO has been in the area since 1948, with Canadians participating since 1954:
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/Newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=914
“In June 1948, the UN Truce Supervision Organisation (UNTSO) was established to observe and report upon any violations of the armistice between Israel and its Arab neighbours. Canada’s involvement in UNTSO started in 1954 when four officers were seconded to it. A Canadian Major-General was named as UNTSOs Chief of Staff in that year.”
So the dead soldier was an “observer”, not a “peacekeeper”–a word that did have the current meaning in 1948.
http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976661268.htm
Headquarters are at Government House, Jerusalem.
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/missions/untso/
Canada was only part of UNIFIL between 19 March 1978 and 06 October 1978.
http://www.rcsigs.ca/ViewPage/History/UNIFIL-CANSIGS/
Mark
Ottawa
If Hezboolah terrorists go right up to the walls of an UN post and start firing their rockets…..MIGHT that not increase the chances of a mishap with Israeli fire.
My advice to the UN soldiers would be – shoot the terrorists!
You have to wonder, how would we have won WW2 with the amount of handwringing now going on over a tiny country fighting the terrorists who want to wipe them out.
and aren’t these the same terrorists who were obligated to disarm? but not compelled to by the Lebanese government?
Yes, Israel can be critized. Informed criticism.
gray, from what I’ve read, it seems that Hezbollah set up their bases right next to the UN bases. Their base was hit after six HOURS of intense shelling. So do you think that the IDF are such lousy shots that it took them six hours to hit their target? Or, more likely, that after six hours of shelling their target, one of their missed shots happened to land on the UN base?
AFAIK Robert, the UN military observers are unarmed. Could be wrong, but I recall reading that. Regardless…
Kofi needs to be moving those UN posts away from Hezb posts as fast as possible. If we have other Cdn assets camped out beside Hezb posts, I hope DoD is making loud noises in Kofi’s ear right now.
Who is Kofi Annan? How does this guy keep his job as UN Secretary General for over 10 years? Isn’t there something in the UN charter that requires mandatory elections? I get a strong feeling that Kofi exists as he does for the pleasure of his masters in a world where words like democracy, equality and freedom are treated as cheaply as tubes of Bangkok lipstick.
Got to hand it to Kofi, when he moves you can hardly see the strings.