A commenter at Captain Capitalism explains why garbage degrees in modern academia have become so common:
The tuition is the same for an engineering major and a femminist studies major… but what does it cost the school to “educate” the femminist studies major? Assistant Professor sallary and “domestic partner benefits” for a couple of otherwise unemployable ex-activists, a handful of subscriptions to obscure journals for the library, the sunk cost of power and heat for a couple of classrooms, the coffee machine, and some food for the department’s cats.
It all makes sense now.
Many of the problems he are having with modern western universities are due to the notion people had over the last few decades that since university graduates tended to be more successful, everyone should be a university graduate.
This has had three negative effects. Firstly, the intellectual quality of the average student has gone down. Since universities traditionally accepted only the most qualified, adding more students can only lower the average.
Secondly, the value of having a university education has gone down. It is now the case that a BA is worth no more than a high-school diploma one was. When I did my masters it was considered optional and maybe even a bit indulgent for an engineer. Now, when hiring engineers, we are much more likely to consider a masters to be a significant advantage.
Thirdly, we couldn’t just throw the new portion of less intelligent students into the parts of the university that actually work, like science, medicine and engineering, because they aren’t smart enough. It’s all well and good to educate the kids to the best of their ability, but having incompetent doctors and falling bridges is not acceptable.
Even the departments of English and sociology were overflowing, so we created new departments in fields like race, gender, and class studies to house the under-performing. Since these departments are full of, relatively speaking, cheap losers, they have become as we now know them: the angry studies departments.
The solutions to these problems in modern western universities are three-fold. First, the professional parts of the university like medicine and engineering should be split off into independent technical schools. Second, the majority of the remaining students who are ostensibly there for “job studies” should be moved from large monolithic universities into smaller community training colleges. Third, the remaining spaces for what is traditionally known as a renaissance education, as least as paid for by the taxpayer, should be strictly limited to the best and brightest in society as demonstrated via meritocratic aptitude assessments.
Until we see to it that the faux-studies departments that are the source of all the loser rage and anger on campus are denigrated to the point that they become ex-departments, we will not be receiving the value from our universities that we should.
What does a “feminist Studies Major” do when they graduate? Do they become sex therapists?
I was having a discussion on a similar topic the other day. We’ve all heard that a Univeristy Degree is worth X$ in lifetime earnings. This number is obtained by looking at the earnings of graduates vs non graduates.
But isn’t the University attracting (on average) the brighter and harder working people (no slight intended to hard working plumbers, electricians, etc.). So are the higher earnings of the graduates because of their University education or because they are already the brighter and harder working people?
What does a “feminist Studies Major” do when they graduate?
mike in Ontario – I worked a few years ago on a psych unit in a prison with a “feminist Studies Major”. Her position was very loosely described as a counselor. She was a useless idiot of the first order. For starters, it was a male facility. She carped about her miserable life and radical politics all day, oh, and, why women never matched men in income and stature, that from the mouth of an idiot who basically had no skill set. She moved on to work at a battered women’s shelter. Those clients, trying to get their lives back in order, needed her like a hole in the head.
Lot’s of angry lesbians love as Rush would say “feminazi” studies, it validates their anger, and, gotta say it, too often gives them permission for their frumpy appearance. Wouldn’t learning a trade be a smarter choice for these gals.
Today’s colleges are so dumbed down, it’s a business like the airlines, they just want to fill as many seats as possible for the revenues. Look no farther than the Group of 88, now documented for posterity in “Guilty Until Proven Innocent”, at Duke for how craven and stupid the victim studies faculty are.
[quote]So are the higher earnings of the graduates because of their University education or because they are already the brighter and harder working people?
[/quote]
Jethro,
Very good point.. I like wise noticed that the person with the most prestigious Tie (England) is not always the person I wanted working my projects.
When I took my B.Comm degree (Acctg major) at the University of Calgary, school policy required that we had to take about 9 or so courses from the so-called liberal arts disciplines…social sciences, philosophy, and other useless “bird courses” that I have thankfully forgotten.
Compared to courses related to my accounting major, the “social science” courses were laughably easy…all one had to do was to parrot back the ridiculous BS that the instructors preached…a sure “A”.
But I am torn about removing these useless and non-productive courses from the curricula of the universities. On the one hand, it would save huge amounts of money that we are spending on educational pursuits that have no apparent economic advantages.
On the other hand…it would cut into my business sideline: selling T-shirts that state “I have a liberal arts degree…would you like fries with that?”
Jethro. At one time it used to be “because they are already the brighter and harder working people?” Not anymore. The brighter ones (at least here in AB)are realizing that starting out at $15.00/hr vs. $30.00/hr by a university graduate(engineer,etc) may seem like a bad deal,but in 4 years they are making $45 +, AND don’t have a 50 grand student loan! Besides,engineers are a dime a dozen. A great plumber who knows not only water flows downhill is a rarity.
garbage degrees = sanitation engineer?
Jethro:
My 29 yr old son, who was involved in installing “gypsym wallboard” decided to go back to school and take the training to become a carpenter (to get a “trade”). We spent the $4K for tuition…he learned a lot during th 8 month course, and he then realized that as a carpenter’s apprentice he would earn about $13.50/hr. So he went back to “boarding”, earning $44.00/hr initially…after two years he is now earning six figures annually…because he’s good at what he does, and productive…he was so good at what he does that his company made him their site superintendent…hence the 6 figure salary…
Go figure…
What does a “feminist Studies Major” do when they graduate?
Good question Mike. My guess is ‘encourage the creation of more feminist studies majors’.
Posted by: Vitruvius at May 9, 2008 6:48 PM
Excellent, Vit, I think your evaluation is bang-on.
Hey Justthinkin, that reminded me of an old joke (paraphrased):
1/2″ vent valve: $5.
Knowing where to put it: $495.
Showing off your thonged butt crack: priceless.
Many of the angry studies graduates go on to pollute our civilization’s tradition of due process and the rule of law and order, as we see in the case of the titular head of the OHRC, when they would have been better off having studied the art of hoofing, for when the citizenry finally detects the putrid odor of their pollution, they ultimately find themselves in the situation described by Simpson and Bruckheimer’s famous work:
She has danced into the danger zone
When the dancer becomes the dance.
She’s a maniac maniac on the floor
And she’s dancing like she’s never danced before.
Vit, I respect your expansive knowledge and everything, but would you stop quoting the Shakespearesque poetry? We knuckledraggers just don’t ‘get’ that level of sophistication.
I doubt I’ll go that far, Paul. SDA has many thousands of readers, various of whom appreciate or not various shticks, and so it is that with apologies to you and the intent to not over do it, I must yet note that as Abraham Lincoln said: “For those who like this sort of thing, this is the sort of thing they like”. More specifically, perhaps, as to whether or not Flashdance is Shakespearesque, well, I’ll have to sleep on that. Good night and best wishes, everyone.
Whoosh!
From my vantage point, the feminist studies clones gravitate towards the Mickey Mouse faculties of education. Tragically–not too strong a word–our ministries and boards of education are stacked with these dogmatic, unintelligent enforcers, and where they’re taking our young people, who are being brainwashed and NOT learning to be citizens, is not a place any of us will want to be.
The big problem with these universities is their brainwashing the students their no longer educating them
Mike in Ontario — I have often wondered that myself, my feeling is they become hysterical department heads in government. At any rate most of that type seem to fit Hippocrates definition of hysterical, the Greek root word for uterus, a medical condition peculiar to women. In modern terms it’s called PMS, I think only because mad cow disease was already taken.
The other thing I find common in this type of woman is their ability to talk incessantly without ever saying anything meaningful. It seems they talk until they think of something to say.
At any rate after being married for 43 years to the most wonderful woman in the world I have to say this, most are certainly not like the ones mentioned above, I say this as there is no logical opinion I value more than that of my wife and secondly I can confirm that both of the theories of winning an argument with a female are sound in principal but neither works.
A lot of Uni degrees today are kinda like describing art, making something out of nothing for no one.
Having spent a couple of years in university before switching to a tech program, I can say that the tech program was less expensive but more demanding. Most importantly though was their employment stats for graduates – 80%+ within the first year. In fact, I was offered a job before finishing the course. What really choked my brother, the engineer, was that I also made more money for the first four years.
Where so the liberal arts student go? Around here they become an army of outreach workers, liaison officers, diversity consultants, social service workers etc. Supposedly to ensure more kids are staying in school. Money that, in my opinion, would be better spent on bus drivers and sandwiches.
I went to a small town graduation last night, only 15 grads. Not one of them are going to university, but several are going into the trades.
Not one nurse, lawyer, accountant or teacher in the bunch. Is this a trend, as the Trades are where the money and jobs are.
The sad thing is that most of these kids will have to take upgrading courses in College to get into some of the trades they picked. The dumbing down of education at the high school level and lowering the standards of what you need to get a diploma is ridiculous. At one time a high school diploma meant something, not today.
When I took my B.Comm degree (Acctg major) at the University of Calgary, school policy required that we had to take about 9 or so courses from the so-called liberal arts disciplines…social sciences, philosophy, and other useless “bird courses” that I have thankfully forgotten.
Compared to courses related to my accounting major, the “social science” courses were laughably easy…all one had to do was to parrot back the ridiculous BS that the instructors preached…a sure “A”.
–Bruce
Ha, ha. I always enjoy reading the postings at this site where the open-minded readers go on about how they didn’t learn nuttin when they had to take them pin-head libral arts corsiz at universty. Them A’s just came a-rolling in ‘cuz all u gots to do is parrut that stuff back again. Oh, wait a minute, that’s called learning the course material and showing that you understand. On the other hand, we all know that you never have to do that in a course in the “hard” sciences, where it’s all touchy-feeling stuff about your “feelings” rather than the course material.
Fundamentally, anyone who says that he learned nothing of any use amidst all of the offerings at a real university (history, philosophy, literature–you get to choose what you for your distribution requirements) just says that he was a willful fool at picking courses as an undergraduate (and has not learned any wisdom in the meanwhile). If you go into something with a bad attitude and are determined to find nothing of worth, then you won’t, but that’s your bad.
MaryT, don’t worry, as the Windows Vista DoublePlusGoodExtreme Service Pack 4 will take care of all that pesky “thinking” stuff for us.
Then again, anyone who thinks that you need a university prof and pay thousands of dollars in tuition to be able to understand history, philosophy, literature may be educated but not very smart.
There are many so books and periodicals around that all you need is an inquisitive mind, basic reading comprehension, a library card/internet connection and some time. Then you too can pretend you know all the answers while sipping a latte.
Conversely it is the rare person who is a self taught engineer, dentist or doctor. Access to scientific equipment and labs alone is a big obstacle. Standards of competency and professionalism are also more strictly regulated.
In my opinion, a science student will do better in liberal arts class than a liberal arts student in a science course.
lynnh – while you’re correct that you can quite easily self-educate, at the end of the process you’ve got no pretty pieces of paper to show for your knowledge. It used to be you didn’t need the paper if you could prove you had the skills/knowledge/abilities to do whatever job you were hired to fill. Those days are long gone now. Now, unless you’re working in trades (and even then it’s iffy) you often need a piece of paper to make it into the “to be interviewed” pile. Which explains why I went from university – to tech college – and I’m back in university 15 years later pursing yet another piece of silly paper…
As for the quality and difficulty levels of liberal arts courses – a lot of that depends on the rigour of the quality council investigation when the courses were designed, the lattitude program chairs and deans give their professors to teach whatever they want in established courses (often referred to as “academic freedom”), and the overall “purpose and vision” of the university itself. I can honestly say that some of the jr. year arts courses I’ve taken at RMC are significantly more difficult than those I completed at U of A, U Vic or STU in the past. Then again, RMC has a well rounded set of core courses that ALL students have to take, regardless of program. So arts students have to complete a preset number of Math, Chemistry or Physics. Courses in Business, International Politics and Tactical Warfare (TW is technically classed as part of the History department) are required as well. Those who don’t declare a degree and choose a general liberal studies program with no major have to complete Economics courses. On the flip side, those completing the Engineering program at RMC have to complete mandatory Psychology and Ethics courses.
The quality of the liberal arts degree and what you end up doing with it depends as much on the school you choose as the interests you pursue.
A liberal arts education is important for reasons other than wages. The ability to think, reason or question are skills more important to many of us than technical knowledge.
Why degrade the stuff I want to learn?
Also, a liberal arts education teaches writing skills. For instance, Spurwing Plover could use some help with this sentence:
“The big problem with these universities is their brainwashing the students their no longer educating them”
I agree that there are some very interesting things to learn in the social sciences. University profs in these areas are, in my experience, terrible. The epitome being the doofus who came in the first day of class just to tell us what a waste of his time teaching was.
I partly disagree with the piece of paper argument. Only some of these liberal arts degrees will give you employment. Maybe it was because of the recession but my liberal arts acquaintances did not have many job opportunities available to them with their piece of paper. They actually did have to waitress and work in retail to pay the bills. So their degree was largely useless to them. They either had to obtain specific job related training or become career students.
As to the old “it makes you think and be a better person” clique. I strongly disagree. Liberal Arts programs rarely turn out be free thinking, logical graduates. Their world view, like their life experience, is very limited and narrow. The only “diversity” of thought is the degree of red – pinkish or flaming.
On the other hand, if you sit down with any other large group of people you will get a much broader range of opinions. Many times they are also better thought out and argued. Most of the really enjoyable discussion I witnessed often came from conversations between tradesman and engineers. The Liberal Arts people are really boring and predictable in their sameness.
Good engineering professors are expensive because there’s always a demand for good, experienced engineers. “Gender study” professors are cheap like borsch cause the commercial market for their skills is sweet bugger all. Indeed, I would pay to keep these professional victims out of my company.
The “diversity industry” is trying to change that, so far with limited succes.
lynnh:
“profs in these areas are, in my experience, terrible”
I’m sorry your experience was so bad; mine was quite the opposite. I’ve had teachers I will always be grateful for in subjects such as Irish Lit, Shakespeare, philosophy, English drama, film studies, and many other subjects. There were some poor teachers but no one’s perfect.
“The Liberal Arts people are really boring and predictable in their sameness.”
Contrary to much of my experience as well. I find about the same diversity of people as there are in trades and skilled labour.
“The only “diversity” of thought is the degree of red – pinkish or flaming.”
This seems to be a strange statement in light of the discussion about education. It may reveal more about your prejudices than it does about your thoughts on education.
What do I do with my arts education? I drive a truck and regret neither.
“Prejudice is prejudging, making a decision about a person or group of people without sufficient knowledge”
I believe I have sufficient knowledge. Not just from personal experience but other sources. Any honest assessment of a liberal arts departments would see it as a hotbed of progressive thought. One foundation that chronicles the absurdity of university campuses is: FIRE-http://www.thefire.org/?PHPSESSID=c41e1e136f99ebeeb91190655f5629b2
Funny you should bring the charge of prejudice. It along with racist, homophobe, and sexist seem to be the preferred method for a progressive to silence debate. You learned well.
Answer: to justify the securitization of student loans. In other words, the structure of college loans was the basis for the housing boom’s NINJA loans. All you had to believe is that this new box of pressboard and staples was worth something, would last long enough to be worth more, and would be in the end useful.
Cranky feminists will end up working somewhere, and who knows, they may even be useful. Customer relations, anyone?
The most important thing to remember is that education has no bearing on intelligence. Many kids attend university because mom and dad insist, not to mention it’s a free ride. I have known some that majored in booze and parties.Europe has a far better system.