[A] remarkable drama has been unfolding in Australia, where the new Labor government has belatedly joined the “consensus” bandwagon by introducing a bill for an emissions-curbing “cap and trade” scheme, which would devastate Australia’s economy, it being 80 per cent dependent on coal. The bill still has to pass the Senate, which is so precisely divided that the decisive vote next month may be cast by an independent Senator, Stephen Fielding. So crucial is his vote that the climate change minister, Penny Wong, agreed to see him with his four advisers, all leading Australian scientists.
Fielding put to the minister three questions. How, since temperatures have been dropping, can CO2 be blamed for them rising? What, if CO2 was the cause of recent warming, was the cause of temperatures rising higher in the past? Why, since the official computer models have been proved wrong, should we rely on them for future projections?
The written answers produced by the minister’s own scientific advisers proved so woolly and full of elementary errors that Fielding’s team have now published a 50-page, fully-referenced “Due Diligence” paper tearing them apart. In light of the inadequacy of the Government’s reply, the Senator has announced that he will be voting against the bill.
The wider significance of this episode is that it is the first time a Western government has allowed itself to be drawn into debating the science behind the global warming scare with expert scientists representing the “counter consensus” – and the “consensus” lost hands down.
Looks like the Aussies may actually save the world !
Conservative MPs you now have your game plan.
Global warming has raised this morning’s temperature to a roasting 13 degrees C in the middle of July!
At least the garbage in Toronto will rot at a slightly slower rate. There’s a silver lining in every cloud.
The public service unions should see what is being said on Facebook as people share photograph’s of Toronto’s growing piles of garbage. There is no sympathy for these unions, and the rhetoric against them is getting hotter even if Gaia’s temperature isn’t.
Oh look normal people.
“Brain, your Australian followers have been exposed as idiots. What will you do now?”
“Pinky, they have failed me, but were only supposed to destroy Australia’s economy to prove the concept. We will press on and tonight we will upload the beta mass confuserizer program to the Al Gorebot. By the end of next week I shall rule the world.”
But now the Warmongers, being forced to admit that the planet has been cooling for the last ten years, are claiming that it is just a reaction to the planet getting “too hot” in the years before the 1998 el nino spike.
Desperation breeds bizarre ideas.
“Over at Real Climate they are busy giving climate skeptics reason to cheer:
“We hypothesize that the established pre-1998 trend is the true forced warming signal, and that the climate system effectively overshot this signal in response to the 1997/98 El Niño. This overshoot is in the process of radiatively dissipating, and the climate will return to its earlier defined, greenhouse gas-forced warming signal. If this hypothesis is correct, the era of consistent record-breaking global mean temperatures will not resume until roughly 2020.”
Imagine, twenty-two or more years (1998 to ~2020) of no new global temperature record. What would that do to the debate? Real Climate does say something very smart in the piece (emphasis added):
“Nature (with hopefully some constructive input from humans) will decide the global warming question based upon climate sensitivity, net radiative forcing, and oceanic storage of heat, not on the type of multi-decadal time scale variability we are discussing here. However, this apparent impulsive behavior explicitly highlights the fact that humanity is poking a complex, nonlinear system with GHG forcing – and that there are no guarantees to how the climate may respond.””
http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com/2009/07/two-decades-of-no-warming-consistent.html
Ok, this link deserves a wider audience (via MySearch4Truth on WUWT) It’s exactly the kind of thing the media would be shoving down our throats if it had to do with heat rather than cold.
“Children die in Harsh Peru Winter”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8146995.stm
So Red Tory, tell me again about peer review?
That was the scientific equivalent of a ‘bitch-slap’.
Go Aussie!
“In addition to immediately increasing unemployment in the energy sector, even more American jobs will be threatened by the rising cost of doing business under the cap-and-tax plan. For example, the cost of farming will certainly increase, driving down farm incomes while driving up grocery prices. The costs of manufacturing, warehousing and transportation will also increase.
The ironic beauty in this plan? Soon, even the most ardent liberal will understand supply-side economics. ”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/13/AR2009071302852.html
does anybody actually believe this will change anything in australia? understanding only comes with wisdom and wisdom is lacking everywhere.
Maybe the terrible consequences of not allowing homeowners to cut back vegatation had an effect. During the recent fires that caused total loss of property and needless deaths due to councils restricting common sense and allowing people to protect themselves. It is nice to see some politicians take a principled informed stand on an important issue. Hope it catches on and is exported.
At least there is one place on earth where this stuff is debated with actual science in mind.
Gotta love the Aussies.
Now if only we could be as grown up and mature in Canada…
Alright everyone. Fire up your word processors and write to your MPs.
Yes finally !! Western politicians were asked to explain there Global Warming Religious Zealotism – and they could not !!
Really need to track down his 50 page reply!!
Another after work project.
AtlanticJim,
You can find the PDF under Climate Change Documents.
I love Aussies because they will tell what they think, not what you want to hear..
Every time I hear about climate scientists, all I can see in my mind is SCTV’s John Candy, as a pseudo scientist, explaining why your underwear will kill you..
amazing, considering that this counters the very data collected by Australia itself. cooling for the last 20 years? I think not . Sea temperature rise much?
AtlanticJim,
Below is a link to a post on Senator Steve Fieldings Web Page about the climate change issue. From this link are additional links to:
1) The three Questions Senator Fielding asked Minster Wong regarding climate change.
2) Minister Wong’s answers to the three questions.
3) A brief assessment of Minster Wong’s reply
and last but not least
4) The fifty page due diligence by four Aussie scientists on Minister Wong’s reply to Senator Fielding’s Three Questions on Climate Change.
Knock yourself out mate.
http://stevefielding.com.au/climate_change/
Look at this jaw dropping comment
http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=6540#comment-348973
In other words, if the model doesn’t prove the warmies right, the model is wrong. This is similar to legislating the value of pi. When are they going to realize that they have become an oppressive orthodoxy? I guess they know it and don’t care.
WOW, so, not withstanding my general ignorance of this tiresome bogus subject, my pet question (or a variant thereof) shows up in the THREE QUESTIONS, namely:
Heh, what caused that one-mile thick slab of ice over Edmonton to melt 12,000 years ago?.
Related: This event totally destroys the bogus view — expressed by a few posters on an earlier thread — that it’s political suicide for a pol to ask these simple questions. A good leader would make it very clear that he was strongly pro-environment, would make loud noises about clean water and air, etc., but would not be afraid to ask these child-like questions. You know, like, “Daddy what makes the sky blue”.
Oh, and Bill O’Reilly has evidently drunk the “fair and balanced” AGW cool-aid, on top of “not having a problem” with Obama’s timid reaction to the Iranian democracy protesters, and Sotomayer’s “wise Latina” racism.
Thanx redneck. I’m looking forward to it.
The inconvenient truth is that “the concensus” is limited to the nutjobs at “Real Climate”…..
And the Aussies have figured that out….
That’s all folks…….
I LOVE the line on the first page of the 50 page paper calling for scientific evidence to be presented under oath with proper rules of evidence in place!
(Thanks for the link Kathryn.)
Wow, even if you don’t understand the technical details of what is presented in the papers, these guys did a hell of a job in arguing their case.
This defines b!itchslap.
Starting on Page 22 of the “Due Diligence” paper, the authors answer the questions they proposed. Check it out.
Me No Dhimmi: My pet question to the AGW alarmists is, what has caused the Antarctic to be covered with 2 mile thick ice shield, after the palm trees were growing there previously?
God bless the Aussies.
sda continues and continues and continues to deliver … DAILY !!! thx Kate 🙂
Heh. No Red Tory, no John Cross. Y’ever notice the Lefties/warmies always hide when there’s something not going their way?
understanding only comes with wisdom and wisdom is lacking everywhere.
~old white guy at July 14, 2009 9:50 AM
Wisdom is the knowledge of right and wrong(understanding) coupled with right action.
That is why young people don’t respect their elders anymore.
Elders used to be respected because they had wisdom and knew what it was.
Now that old people don’t have wisdom, don’t even know the meaning of it, they have nothing to bring to the intergenerational table.
The wheels are coming off of the AGW wagon, and the wagon is going over a cliff, just as the Harper government is climbing on.
Kathryn and redneck, cheers!
Between this and looking up the Don Lemon video, after work promises to be good for a laugh.
Heh. No Red Tory, no John Cross. Y’ever notice the Lefties/warmies always hide when there’s something not going their way?
They all wanted the world to be ending and now they are dissapointed.
[quote]A common expression of human caution, often attributed to Rupert Murdoch, is that in
matters of potential global warming we should “give Earth the benefit of the doubt”.[/quote] Aus Report
I knew that Bill O’Reily (FOX) was in the bag. He has some explaining. He (or the mouth of Murdock) said last night that AGW temp increased 1 deg. O’Reily is a fake
The gangsters, behind the scene, are coming into focus… Under oath & each individual’s wealth audit will help….
“A good leader would make it very clear that he was strongly pro-environment, would make loud noises about clean water and air, etc.,”
Agreed. If we’re going to over spend, I’d like to get something tangible for my money. Anything!
MND
Agreed wrt Bill O’Reilly.
Aaron, the drifting of the continent of antarctica over millions of years from an equatorial region to its present day location over the south pole has caused the two mile thick ice sheet. Nothing to do with climate change.
What evidence do you have to that effect, Pete? Evidence, like in verifiable factual information. I know that it’s a widely accepted hypothesis, nothing more.
Pete,
If memory serves, Pangea (or however you spell it) broke up and drifted north from the south. If my memory is correct (dubious at the best of times) then that would suggest Antarctica didn’t move far if at all.
There are theories suggesting the earth’s axis tilted at least once in history though so that might be it.
But again, my memory isn’t good so take it with a grain of salt.
Aaron: Another pet question is, why all those London street names containing the word “vine”. Answer: England was once prime wine country.
GREENland. Well, that’s a bit too easy eh?
Finally…at long last a politician with enough courage to challenge the global warming cretins and begin to peel off the layers of alarmism and deceit. This should be a wakeup call for politicians around the world which should start to have a snowball effect.
Now that the goose that laid the golden egg apparently has its head on the chopping block, it will be interesting to see the reaction of Gore, Suzuki et al. Will common sense tell them that it’s been a good run and to take their ill-gotten gains and “git while the gittin’s good”? Or will greed prevail and they will dig in their heels and continue this travesty?
“Heh. No Red Tory, no John Cross. Y’ever notice the Lefties/warmies always hide when there’s something not going their way?”
Alas. He’s over at Jay Curries arguing that black is white.
Apparently AGW “overshot” so we’re in for 20 years for cooling, so all is good…..
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/14/real-climate-gives-reason-to-cheer/
Cap and trade legislation shows up in the federal legislating houses of UK, US and Australia within a month of each other. Similar crippling tax and regulate laws are on the drawing board of the other G8 nations.
Please think about this. This isn’t coincidence any more. This is a pan-nation agenda. Now who has the political and economic juice to put this vast wealth and tax burden transfer agenda on the table of every political party in the free world?
It sure isn’t a few smelly hippies protesting the seal hunt or rain forest logging. The Carbondioxide-is-poison coup is backed by the largest banking and corporate investment cartels on earth. This is a multinational corporate establishment tax coup.
Look at the cap and trade, taxing schemes. Note how the operational net effect off-loads the fiscal responsibility for corporate best practices on the consumer, the taxpayer the end user?
Is this coincidence as well?
biffjr.
**Now that the goose that laid the golden egg apparently has its head on the chopping block, it will be interesting to see the reaction of Gore, Suzuki et al. Will common sense tell them that it’s been a good run and to take their ill-gotten gains and “git while the gittin’s good”? Or will greed prevail and they will dig in their heels and continue this travesty?**
Greed will prevail….
mounting the scaffold will not silence them, nor the tightening of the nose….only the springing of the trap will silence them….
They do not merit a gallows…a lamp post is more appropriate……..
pretty simple Aaron. First go to Wikipedia and read the entry for Mid-ocean ridge. These are where new ocean floors are being created. How do we know they’re new? Drilling cores have been dated, and it shows that the ocean floors get progressively older the further from the ridges. So if the ocean floors are continually growing, either the earth is getting bigger, or there has to be somewhere where the crust is being recycled. Bingo! Look along the edges of continents where the meet the ocean floor. Every continent seems to have a deep trench on one side that also happens to have lots of mountains, volcanic activity, seismic activity, etc. Again, drilling has shown the ocean crust being forced down beneath the continental crust. So from these observations, we can conclude that at least some of the oceanic crust is being recycled back into the earth. It also means that the continents ‘float’ around. In this way, we can trace the course that they’ve floated over millions of years by looking at which side trails away from a mid-oceanic ridge.
At risk of being called an irrational fool or scolded for going off-topic…
Pete, how do we know that the mid-oceanic ridges are “geo-stationary”?
Kate….comments for Cali juxtapose not working.
It is just more of the same thing that got us here. I think I am going to throw up (again). Here is a quote from http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/06/could-cap-and-trade-cause-another-market-meltdown
”In addition to trading the allowances and offsets themselves, participants in carbon markets can also deal in their derivatives—such as futures contracts to deliver a certain number of allowances at an agreed price and time. These instruments will be traded not only by polluters that need to buy credits to comply with environmental regulations, but also by financial services firms. In fact, a study (PDF) by Duke University’s Nicholas Institute for Environmental Policy Solutions anticipates that if the United States passes a cap-and-trade law, the derivatives trade will probably exceed the market for the allowances themselves. “We are on the verge of creating a new trillion-dollar market in financial assets that will be securitized, derivatized, and speculated by Wall Street like the mortgage-backed securities market,” says Robert Shapiro, a former undersecretary of commerce in the Clinton administration and a cofounder of the US Climate Task Force.”
Come on Pete. We all know that radioactive isotope dating is a plot.
I can’t remember if its a Bildeburger plot, a communist plot, a Nazi plot or just one of them there kinda eeeevile plots. But fer shur its a plot.
High noon in Calgary on July 14, 2009.
And the temperature is 10 degrees C.
/above zero that is.