… very:
The data from the Climatic Research Unit at East Anglia University — headquarters for Climategate — is now discredited. This discredits any findings by other research bodies that relied on the Climategate data.
How much falls from Climategate, whose participants read like a Who’s Who at the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change? Not much, says CRU’s disgraced director, Phil Jones, pointing out that CRU’s data for global temperatures is but one of several datasets, all in general agreement. Besides, many argue, CRU was no linchpin to the science. The IPCC relied on numerous other sources. Throw CRU out, they say, and the IPCC’s conclusions remain unshakable.
In truth, if you throw CRU out, you’ve eviscerated the findings of the IPCC’s Fourth Assessment Report, the most recent and most definite opus from the UN. This is the report, received with universal acclaim in 2007, which scarily stated: “The warming of the climate system is unequivocal.”
The argument over global warming requires evidence that the globe is warming in dangerous ways. This evidence the IPCC presents forcefully in its third chapter on surface and atmospheric warming, which rests overwhelmingly on the official global temperature record of the United Nations World Meteorological Organization, called the HADCRUT3 temperature dataset.
And who produced the HADCRUT3 dataset for the World Meteorological Organization? The Hadley Centre of the UK government’s meteorological office (the HAD of HADCRUT3) and the University of East Anglia’s Climatic Research Unit (the CRU).
If there are multiple datasets that are in general agreement,
and one of them is not correct, then all of them are incorrect.
Remember when McIntyre re-analyzed the NASA data and found that the warmest decade and the decade of the warmest year was the thirties?
The warmies answer was that the CRU data showed that the current decades is the warmest, not the thirties. Well, how convenient that the CRU data can not be verified in the same way NASA’s was.
Near as I can tell, the thirties were the warmest decade, and the only argument otherwise is “trust Phil Jones”
Would it be correct to say there are two “NASA” data sets? 1., the prox. 30 year satellite data, and 2., the independient “GISS”, Hansen’s surface station work?
That should be clarified, or am I wrong?
Unfortunately, the gang of thugs at the UN and their cohorts cannot and will not face these facts. They have come to far to allow evidence to get in the way of what they see as victory.
It’s a damn shame that we do not have any world leader who would have the courage to say stop.
The best that good leaders will do is to try and finesse around these thugs, which won’t stop the price tag from crippling North America.
This afternoon on Vancouver’s CKNW radio station, host Jon McComb outlined what’s going on in Copenhagen and what they’re proposing. This is TRULY NUTS!!! I wonder if any more than 5-10% of Canadians have the slightest idea how much these AGW zealots are proposing to raise our taxes by and that they’re expecting us to cut our carbon emissions by 80%.
And all for what? A non-existent threat that has been revealed to be a complete fraud!
Yet we, the regular readers & contributors to SDA, are the “right wing extremists”. Crazy times, folks, absolutely crazy times!
THE USA EPA uses the IPCC-CRU data and science. So the fate of CRU takes out a lot of the follow-the-leader fraudsters with one blow.
The missing greenhouse hotspot — The end.
Crazy times, folks, absolutely crazy times!
“I live in a crazy time.”
-Anne Frank
Yes folks, the illegal takeover of our country by a global government is underway.
No it isn’t.
good answer.
Aye.
Heh. Crooked Quacks or any other white collar crook shares the same craven self interest as their common street thug relatives.
Now 2 of the top quacks have been thrown to the wolves to save the IPPC bacon, it’s only a matter of time till Mann or Jones rat out their funding bosses out of vindictive meanness or to cut a deal when charges are pending.
Like Adscam, It will get interesting when we sweat these canaries under oath.
Vit, some evidence please.
“the illegal takeover of our country by a global government is underway” “No it isn’t.”
So Vit what yer sayin’ is that the global government taking over our country isn’t illegal?
Or do you deny the Copenhagen draft that speaks directly about establishing a global government?
BTW in my heart of hearts I want to believe your assertion but that pesky draft agreement….
What, you want me to provide evidence for something that is not happening? Nope, sorry, it doesn’t work that way. Can’t be done; if you don’t believe me go back to Aristotle’s Organon, which you will find filed under 350 BC here. If you want to convince me that we are actually under threat of something happening, it is incumbent upon you to provide evidence that such is the case. Copenhagen agreements that aren’t ratified and aren’t followed are not relevant. Proposed taxes that are not implemented are not relevant. You’re disaster-bating. You’re fear-mongering. I am a skeptic. I don’t believe you. After this Climategate fiasco, how can the epistemological strength of my position not be obvious?
Should be called Climageddon
oops…
The late Dr Jones thinks
“I think you can say that GISS is inferior to CRUTEM3.”
http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=1042&filename=1254850534.txt
the FAQ page at the Hadley Centre website states, in explaining that NASA, the National Climate Data Center and Hadley-CRU all use the same data.
OK. All three of these organizations came up with the same conclusion that there is a climate crisis. One of the three organizations, the Hadly-CRU, whose work was formed the basis of the IPCC 2007 report, has now been outed as a data fudger and data destroyer.
So we are now going to deindustrialize the first world anyway because two other blackbox organizations, NASA and NCCC, came to the same conclusions with the same data?
The world really is run by crazy people.
Vitruvius at December 7, 2009 8:57 PM
I liked you better when I thought you were saying: “Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!!” 🙂
No, the world is not really run by crazy people.
Some of you folk in the conservative blogosphere probably think this is game, set and match, but in reality, the climate establishment just thinks of all this as an irritation, after all “everybody knows” that it is basically getting warmer. This mentality is so ingrained among pro-AGW climate scientists, that no amount of specific criticism of methodology or data sets will shake the attitude.
I think the more direct route to a public relations victory on this would be to question not the data, but the projections. The projections are not really based on the data in any case, not even the flawed data. They are based on assumptions about what increasing carbon dioxide will do to global temperatures.
That’s the real weakness in the AGW theory, the data sets may have been fudged, but nothing is going to change the basic facts, it was about as warm as it is nowadays a thousand years ago, then it got a lot colder, then it warmed up again. I would say everyone in climate science knows this, and most of the blather about it is pure b.s., trying to distinguish between exact levels of warming when one set is from modern instrumental records and one set is from indirect evidence, is hopeless in any case, you’re never going to get more than 0.5 C precision on that sort of call, for instance, what kind of grapes were used to make wine in the medieval period? All of these questions have been researched to death for a hundred years, and the idea that we “lost the data” is way too over-simplified, there is no shortage of reliable data, it’s published all over the place and easy to find. Some specific data sets got compromised by the CRU. This is more indicative of their scientific standards than the integrity of their theory. That integrity can be attacked on more direct grounds, namely, that the projections always used in this AGW campaign (since 1987 roughly) have been speculative, inflated, and unrelated to real atmospheric physics. In essence, it’s a false correlation error based on faulty assumptions about cause and effect.
In some ways, the “hide the decline” angle is dangerous, because if they manage to call that bluff, the more serious charge of theoretical false assumptions will be sidetracked and hidden from view. On the other hand, sometimes it takes a simpler set of talking points that people without scientific education can understand, like falsifying the data. The concept of faulty cause and effect hypothesis might be a bit beyond the average voter (after all, it’s obviously beyond the average newsreader, reporter, MP and Cabinet Minister).
IMHO nothing of substance will come out of Copenhagen. A memorandum of understanding will form the basis of further negotiations…or some such piffle.
Gore has put his tail between his legs and skulked off, The O isn’t appearing until the last day, if at all.
Given the revelations of climategate this whole thing boils down to an exercise in CYA.
I’m gonna sit back with some beer and popcorn and enjoy the show.
Syncro
The real weakness in the AGW theory, Peter, is that
it breaks the Beer-Lambert law. That is not allowed.
The corruption of the review process of which the emails *boast* may be the worst part of the whole scandal. Why? Well, suppose that you have ten independent, honest, conscientious, and competent research groups working on climate; and, as would happen in a time of static climate, five find evidence of warming and five find evidence of cooling. Suppose, in good faith, that they submit their papers to, say, JGR. After the CRU-PSU cabal have done their work, only the five positive results are published. The result? Five independent, honest research groups, all of which find global warming.
I agree with Vitruvius, skeptic till proven otherwise. What can be done? Contact your Conservative MP and let them know that any cap-n-trade or carbon tax is unacceptable. If you do not have a Conservative MP, contact your riding association and find out who your candidate is. Don’t threaten to leave, but try to be the voice of reason. The Liberals, NDP, Green and Bloc will always vote for some form of carbon tax. You may not like some of the things the Conservatives are doing (like me), but splitting the vote or not voting will make things worse.
Just heard a report on today’s events in Denmark.
Please show me where sea levels have risen, with pre and post pictures.
These idiots make lots of statements but never offer any proof.
Congratulations Canada on winning the Fossil award today. Maybe we can get all 12.
There are almost 200 countries there, all with different agendas on what should/needs to be done. And they expect an agreement in 2 weeks.
How long has the US senate been debating health care, and other issues. How long has Canada been debating the long gun ban. And these are people all speaking and reading the same language, mostly.
Hey the WWF has just come out and issued a report-buying Green is bad for the environment.
Sure glad I never fell for those twisty bulbs.
Canada takes first ‘Fossil of the Day’ at Copenhagen!
Not since September 28, 1972 have I been this proud of my country.
“No it isn’t”
Agreed, but, it might be useful to let the masses believe such a scenario is possible, for a little while, at least.
Do you remember the Bali conference we discussed here at SDA on 2007-12-15, Syncrodox? Same as it ever was, same as it ever was, eh what? Yet there still exist folks who think that this time it will be different. Now I’m not saying it won’t ~ as a skeptic I try to avoid predictions ~ I’m just saying that I don’t understand why some people seem to be so interested in running around predicting disaster, on the left and on the right. Is that some kind of mental illness?
i’ll admit my shorts are in a bit of a knot but that does not mean i should lose any sleep over the behaviour of some “scientists” with an agenda.
i will remain focused on 2 questions:
is global warming man-made?
is global warming catastrophic?
so far i have not seen anything that supports these two questions in the affirmative.
bah! humbug.
The Copenhagen is the sideshow of stupid EU Communist freaks…Spinning wheels
The real show is now in the Senate
Today:
US EPA (Obama Admin) declared GHG a danger & subject to regulation. (Unconstitutional on the merit).
{quote}In addition, before regulating a chemical under section 6, the EPA Administrator must consider and publish a statement regarding the following:
• the effects of the chemical on human health and the magnitude of human exposure to
the chemical;
• the effects of the chemical on the environment and the magnitude of the environment’s
exposure to the chemical;
• the benefits of the chemical for various uses and the availability of substitutes for those
uses; and
• the reasonably ascertainable economic consequences of the rule, after consideration of
the effect on the national economy, small business, technological innovation, the
environment, and public health. [/Quote] from link
BOXER COMMITEE:
THIS MUST BE DEFEATED & NAMES TAKEN
US senate has a bill that will clear the way for the EPA to become a WH dictatorship
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Files.View&FileStore_id=619c34a0-842b-494d-8579-f5051a0a709a
1. That the EPA will not have to prove the science behind regulation (presently they must/see above).. This shifts the burden to industry
2. That they can share confidential information with Foreign Governments. This sounds like they are covering criminal activity that they have already committed
“Canada takes first ‘Fossil of the Day’ at Copenhagen!”
3rd place and a share of 1st. Oh well … there is always tomorrow.
Bill Good show had Andrew Weaver as his guest. Amazing that when a caller mentioned Phil Jones, Good turned to Weaver and asked who is Phil Jones?
Weaver will not debate because that implies legitimacy to the skeptics. In Weaver’s view there is no doubt that the world is warming, oceans rising. Climategate is theft and deliberately done to affect Copenhagen. Oh pls let someone come forward and admit to being a whistle blower.
Oh pls let this winter be a real doozy.
THE LIE THAT WAS TOO BIG TOO BELIEVE
The CRU Goons we’re out to stifle our great Canadian, Stephen McIntyre.
[Activities of these “working climate scientists” were not to answer questions about their work but to divert, distract, ignore and marginalize with lies about people and ideas. Here is a February 9, 2006 email from Michael Mann (hockey stick guy) that gives a flavor of the almost paranoid behavior.“I see that Science (the journal) has already gone online w/ the new issue, so we put up the RC post. By now, you’ve probably read that nasty McIntyre thing. Apparently, he violated the embargo on his website (I don’t go there personally, but so I’m informed). Anyway, I wanted you guys to know that you’re free to use RC in any way you think would be helpful. Gavin and I are going to be careful about what comments we screen through, and we’ll be very careful to answer any questions that come up to any extent we can. On the other hand, you might want to visit the thread and post replies yourself. We can hold comments up in the queue and contact you about whether or not you think they should be screened through or not, and if so, any comments you’d like us to include. You’re also welcome to do a followup guest post, etc. think of RC as a resource that is at your disposal to combat any disinformation put forward by the McIntyres of the world. Just let us know. We’ll use our best discretion to make sure the skeptics don’t get to use the RC comments as a megaphone…”] Canada Free Press
“careful about what comments we screen through ..” !!
They we’re trying to conceal the lies but the whole world knows , .. with no thanks to our beloved Canadian media.
THE LIE THAT WAS TOO BIG TOO BELIEVE
The CRU Goons we’re out to stifle our great Canadian, Stephen McIntyre.
[Activities of these “working climate scientists” were not to answer questions about their work but to divert, distract, ignore and marginalize with lies about people and ideas. Here is a February 9, 2006 email from Michael Mann (hockey stick guy) that gives a flavor of the almost paranoid behavior.“I see that Science (the journal) has already gone online w/ the new issue, so we put up the RC post. By now, you’ve probably read that nasty McIntyre thing. Apparently, he violated the embargo on his website (I don’t go there personally, but so I’m informed). Anyway, I wanted you guys to know that you’re free to use RC in any way you think would be helpful. Gavin and I are going to be careful about what comments we screen through, and we’ll be very careful to answer any questions that come up to any extent we can. On the other hand, you might want to visit the thread and post replies yourself. We can hold comments up in the queue and contact you about whether or not you think they should be screened through or not, and if so, any comments you’d like us to include. You’re also welcome to do a followup guest post, etc. think of RC as a resource that is at your disposal to combat any disinformation put forward by the McIntyres of the world. Just let us know. We’ll use our best discretion to make sure the skeptics don’t get to use the RC comments as a megaphone…”] Canada Free Press
“careful about what comments we screen through ..” !!
They we’re trying to conceal the lies but the whole world knows , .. with no thanks to our beloved Canadian media.
When Phil Jones said the other 3 datasets were independent it went stright into the Big Lie file.
First he mentions GISS and NCDC. Well Hansen runs GISS and Tom Karl runs NCDC, and yes thats the same Tom Karl from the email’s.
Now onto the tech side, as we know Steve Mc has already once showed GISS had problems, then there was Hansen using Septembers readings for October a few years back, but that is not all. There is a guy working basically in obsurity that is really tearing GISS and NCDC apart. Here is his site link: http://chiefio.wordpress.com/
an example of his work is he found that one set only uses 4 temp stations for the entire state of California and all 4 are placed south of LA and on the beach. Now that is really going to tell you what the Temp is in Napa Valley up near San Francisco. Over all he found that these sets dropped rural and northern (ie were it’s cooler) stations from their data. So less stations, located in southern, urban areas = Articialy inflated temps.
Most already know about Anthony Watts and his work on how bad the sites NOAA has.
So that knocks out those two. So lets recap there was 4 “indepent” data sets when we started. CRU taken out by the leak, GISS and NCDC knocked out by very bad incoming data so that leaves us with 1 and that is sattelite. Well actually no it doesn’t. From what I remember years ago the satellites had to be calibrated because they actually don’t read surface temps. How do you calibrate them you ask? Simple you calibrate them to known good Global mean datasets like CRU….Ok then GISS…. Hmm that doesn’t work so how about NCDC well… Basically when they calibrated the satellites, they calibrated them to cooked data so we go zero independent sites that can be relied on.
IMHO, we cannot win this war. I agree with the comments by O’Donnell above. You, me, we, us and the great Houdini will never, ever convince these eco-nuts that they are wrong. This is a religion, a cult to them. They will drink this green kool-aid for all its worth. Forget about the CRU, the IPCC, the leaky data and all of the other apocalyptic apostles out there. Forget about their bad science. They have won the PR war. I mean, the “hockey stick” has been scientifically debunked – by two Canadians no less – yet the eco-nuts will never accept this. And when you mention the “hockey stick” to the average Canadian Joe six pack, he’ll tell you that the Leafs are going to win the next Stanley Cup. Pure fantasy – but reality nevertheless.
You cannot reason with these lunatics. I mean, even the EPA today has proclaimed that C02, a basic building block of nature, along with all other greenhouse gases, including water vapour, is a pollutant. And this is the government of the US making this proclamation for heaven sakes. How can one fight such lunacy? You can’t.
But I have great faith in my fellow Canadians to force our leadership to reject this crappola outright. Why? Hell, look at the furor going on with respect to the HST. The dippers are screaming blue murder on this tax grab and so are the Liberals (well, maybe). Well “Jack six pack,” you ain’t seen nothing yet. And that is where I believe that the climate truths will have to come out – where it hurts – in the pocketbook. And when Joe six pack comes to the realization that he can no longer afford a beer, or watch a hockey game, all hell will break loose. After all, hockey is played on ice. Ice can melt and the water evaporates. And, given that water vapour has now been declared a pollutant by the US (it is a greenhouse gas after all), the lefties will surely freak out and push for a total ban of our national pastime. And that my dear friends is when “to hell with climate change” will surely break loose.
It doesn’t matter, Jaymo: the eco-nuts don’t run the planet. The current fiasco is collapsing. Yay! It will be replaced by another one. C’est la vie. The pendulum will swing back and forth. It always does. In the long term things gradually get better. And you know why? It’s because of who actually runs the planet: nobody. But many people don’t want you to believe that. You know why? Because there’s no margin in it for them.
Jaymo Says “…You cannot reason with these lunatics…..”
Yes that’s right you cannot … and so they must be exposed as the frauds, criminals and cretins they are ….. and put to ridicule that is relentless and without mercy.
Okay, if we must reduce our carbon load, and be greener……, I’ll do it as long as everyone else does.
Lucky thing I charge by the hour :).
On NASA climate date …
There is two sets of NASA climate data:
There is Pre-Hansen and there is Hansen data.
The latter is what we are saying is fraudulent.
“…and put to ridicule that is relentless and without mercy. ”
Like this? 😀
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVGGgncVq-4&feature=player_embedded
READ AGENDA 21 and understand it’s implications.
This is all just part and parcel of Agenda 21, Global warming is the smoke screen for the real danger which is the legal framework for the transfer of power to the UN, man made Global warming has never been real, it’s impossible and it’s not complicated. now you know that,(thanks hackers/whistle blowers) you need to know WHY it was done and is still being done.
Agenda 21 is the root of it all, keep digging, it gets uglier.
The UN makes Hitler’s Germany look like boy scouts and it was designed to be that way from day one, one that governments thought they could control at arms length, secretly many of the Nazi ideas were popular back home in the allied nations especially amongst the elite and many were implemented such as socialized health-care and were used to sterilize the unwanted and infirm right up until the eighties in some cases.
No sane free individual gives over power of life and death to government without coercion!
Tommy Douglas was Canada’s foremost promoter of eugenics for instance and not surprisingly father of medicare in Canada. The CCP were Marxist as is it’s child the NDP.
If you think they are not capable of such evil I would point to the DDT ban, it like CO2 was/is harmless to humans in all but huge amounts HUGE AMOUNTS but the same category of people swore the science was sound knowing full well it was fraudulent and had it banned, it is our defense against malaria, 40,000,000 people died in the forty yrs it took for that false science to be tossed out, David Suzuki was a part of that fraud as well, next time you see him ask him how it feels to be partly responsible for forty million deaths, mostly children!!
We came from totalitarian governments in Europe to North America and we are returning to totalitarian governments in North America, look south, then remind yourself we have said we will follow their lead. Is Harper insane or scared? Have they threatened him? I know Soros has, publicly.
Why are property rights gone from the party plan?
Center to Agenda 21 is the loss of all property rights through which stem freedom and wealth creation and without which the middle class cease to exist as can be seen in Canada since the adoption of the Charter and removal of property rights, a steady decline in living standards.
The Liberals have not been Liberals since 1963 and Pearson was a useful idiot, sad but true.
The rewritten history of Canada is full of useful idiots as heroes, Pearson, Trudeau, Douglas and it’s sad because they sold us out decades ago and Canadians defend it as something to be proud of.
If Canadians don’t figure this scam out in it’s full context and soon, they are doomed to hell on earth.
No, it’s Agenda 23(b)(iv) now. Didn’t you get the memo?
Same as it ever was fer sure Vit.
Syncro
“Canada takes first ‘Fossil of the Day’ at Copenhagen!
Not since September 28, 1972 have I been this proud of my country.
Posted by: wingwalker at December 7, 2009 9:37 PM”
Congratulations to the Harper gov’t for standing up for Canadians and not following the braindead herd.
LOS ANGELES — A cold storm brought heavy rain, snow and strong winds to California on Monday, causing hundreds of traffic accidents and shutting down a portion of Interstate 5, the state’s major north-south route.
I’m sure Kate will make a post on this later but everyone should read about how the raw data from Darwin Australia was “corrected” to show huge warming.
This is the clearest example of cooking raw data yet discovered.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/08/the-smoking-gun-at-darwin-zero/#more-13818
Lawrence Solomon is just one of the reasons I read the Natioanl Post: he along with Jonas, Fulford, Black, Krauthammer, Frum, Corcoron, Foster, Kay (Barb), and Kay (Jon)are the others.
Best paper in the country. Don’t be afraid to purchase a hardcopy every once in while.
Full Disclosure: I have no affiliation with the NP.
Only a moron retard or a liberal, all the same, would look at the weather,-40, and get on a taxpayer funded plane and fly around the world to fight global warming. These people not only have no brains, they also have no pride, which is why they steal others money to fight a non-existant bogeyman. This insanity has to be stopped and taxpayers have to contact their MP’s and MLA’s demanding so
What is the truth?
I have heard the IPCC’s group of scientists consists of 2500 members comprising many different fields with roughly 1100 of them being political scientists.
I have also heard that only 40 of the scientists are carrying the load and only 15 have real input into putting the whole process together.
Kind of pales against the 31000 scientists signing the Oregon Petition against AGW.