…where he can continue to keep his automatic rifle. The British Independent can barely control its outrage and disdain in a “news” story. As for women:
…
The result amounted to a serious blow to Switzerland’s nascent gun control lobby. It had banked on a high turnout by women voters to get its initiative approved. But results showed that only the cities of Basel and Geneva and a few French-speaking cantons bucked a national trend in favour of keeping guns at home.
Social Democrat and Green women MPs said that they were disappointed by the low turnout among women…
The SIG SG 550 Sturmgewehr 90:
langmann
Don’t dis fullauto for home defence.
Full auto was intended to be an area suppression weapon.
It has it’s place.
As with anything? Read instructions before using.
I’m with Mark, what’s up with women voters? It’s exeptionally telling that these groups are targeting women voters specifically for this issue. It’s like they know they won’t be able to make a rational decision about this matter.
To answer my own question (from text that I missed the first time at the link Mark provides):
The rifle has special studs and slots in the magazine so that two or three magazines can be clipped together side by side. This allows the changing of the magazine by simply pulling the assembly out, shifting it sideways, and pushing in the new magazine.
Very cool. Looking at the photo again, it seems that there are 3 clips on the unit shown.
Regarding trigger locks, if the weapon is under your supervision, say, beside your bed, a trigger lock is not required. Only when it’s left unattended does it need to be locked up.
As far as a “home defense” weapon, I don’t actually practise what I preach. I prefer a snub-nosed 38 special (yeah, I’m 12-6). I know every angle in my house to fire safely away from my neighbours, and I practise rigorously.
I know exactly how much penetration my ammo has, from years of experimenting. For example, a 158 grain soft nose bullet will not go all the way through a road sign, at 20 yards. Four layers of drywall will stop the same bullet.
Through years of practise, I can put 6 slugs into a 6″ circle, at 7 yards, in 5 seconds. Not every Canadian is a wannabe.
So, based on this knowledge, do you think I’m a good neighbour, or a bad one?
@ coach:
I wish you were my neighbour.
“The SG 550 is an improved version of the SG 540 developed in competition to meet Swish Army requirements in 1984.”
?
‘Swish’ Army ?
Switzerland is defended by a bunch of faggots?
oh, by the way, I hear in the vaunted Switzerland the reason for such high stds of living is that for instance it is not possible to do a lot of DYI; you cannot find bldg materials to ‘DYI’ some stuff unless you have a TRADE license. how’s THAT for socialism?
Isn’t swish something people drink at gravel pit parties?
Irony abounds in this thread. The weapons they are referring to are of course military weapons. The ammunition must remain sealed, so these weapons have a negligible effect, at best, on rates of home invasion or rape. The issue is actually suicide rates.
Many here applaud the Swiss approach to gun ownership, but are they ready to embrace the compulsory military service that goes with it ? No nonsense militia like some states in the USA, they have to serve, 17 weeks basic training and then 300 days after.
Of course part of the Swiss formula also includes tremendous regulation by the state and state participation in the economy. Lots ( lots !) of civil servants efficiently enforcing regulations and considerably more social control than in Canada or the USA. If you are ready to embrace all that as well, then admire Switzerland approach to gun ownership.
Irony abounds in this thread. The weapons they are referring to are of course military weapons. The ammunition must remain sealed, so these weapons have a negligible effect, at best, on rates of home invasion or rape. The issue is actually suicide rates.
Many here applaud the Swiss approach to gun ownership, but are they ready to embrace the compulsory military service that goes with it ? No nonsense militia like some states in the USA, they have to serve, 17 weeks basic training and then 300 days after.
Of course part of the Swiss formula also includes tremendous regulation by the state and state participation in the economy. Lots ( lots !) of civil servants efficiently enforcing regulations and considerably more social control than in Canada or the USA. If you are ready to embrace all that as well, then admire Switzerland approach to gun ownership.
The Swiss have their weapons for national defense. But there is another example of home ownership = gun ownership that has worked.
Kennesaw, GA passed a law in the mid-80’s that required a homeowner to have a working firearm in the house. The law does allow one to file for a waiver.
Since that law was passed, there has been exactly one incident in Kennesaw which resulted in a gun death. Last year a disgruntled ex-employee went into a Penske Truck Rental and killed some people.
Crime in Kennesaw – dropped by 70% in the first two years after it was enacted, and Kennesaw remains one of the safest places to live in Georgia.
Not to quibble, but buck shot (and heavy slow pistol bullets) have better penetration though dry wall than .223 / 5.56.
(Effectively those fast, small, light bullets shatter and tumble right away and have crappy penetration. .308/7.62mm is different.)
Don’t believe me, someone built walls and TRIED it. Go to the source:
http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2011/02/link-dump.html
coach said: “Okay, I own a lot of guns, but even I would hesitate to keep a gun like that one lying around.”
I used to have an FN FAL and a Valmet M-76 “lying around” at my place in AZ. They never had parties or anything when I was out. Didn’t even poop on the carpet.
Full auto for home defense? Massive overkill. Until the day when its not. Always remembering, shooter is responsible for where every single round goes. Glazer and Magsafe frangibles, they are dandy for keeping things inside the house.
Sometimes people get all focused on the “rights” part and forget about the “responsibility” part.
My choice for home defense here in Canaduh? Maglight flashlight. Because the freak show government of this clown circus country we live in is just SO much more dangerous than some random drug addict, I’m happy to take my chances duking it out with the punks.
300 deaths a year? And self inflicted, you say?
Oh, well then, we’d better panic, right?
Morons.
Trouble with historians is that they have their own agenda and axe to grind whether it is to achieve tenure or to elicit grants from the government, they can and do tend to skew history and woe betide the student that queries them. Point in fact google Queenston Heights, Crysler’s Farm, and the term “militia”.
coach: “good neighbor”.
High rise apartments with open balconies would seem to be more tempting than a $3000 assault rifle, if I were looking to off myself. My kids wouldn’t have trouble collecting insurance, and it could be reported as a tragic accident.
gray @12:09 – “Many here applaud the Swiss approach to gun ownership, but are they ready to embrace the compulsory military service that goes with it ? No nonsense militia like some states in the USA, they have to serve, 17 weeks basic training and then 300 days after.”
I think it’s a splendid idea. I’m usually about three drinks away from advocating conscription.
“Of course part of the Swiss formula also includes tremendous regulation by the state and state participation in the economy.”
Yeah, and part of the “Swiss formula” involves lederhosen and not being ghastly to the Nazis. So what? We’re not talking about that.
I wish we’d had conscription when I was a snot nosed 18 year old. We should have it now.
Jesus Christ on a bicycle. THAT, my friends, is a gun.
@ Fred2: It’s not penetrating the walls of the home I am worried about, its a lot of lead hitting the zombie’s chest from 1 shot that I like. Having seen these types of individual manage to walk around after being shot once or twice, I like the idea of several pellots delivered in one go, because I figure its all the time I will have. Zombies move fast.
One can vary the speed of the load you are using to hopefully keep it from bouncing down the street and killing baby seals.
I just think the idea of a fully automatic for home defence would be a little overkill and probably dangerous to baby seals.
The argument for best home defence goes on and on. Pick whatever you are comfortable with and have a lot of practice with and hope you never have to face a zombie invasion.
As a side note, the civillian version of that rifle is available in Canada, non-restricted too(although still neutered to 5 round magazines).
Look up SIG Black Special, and drool away. One is on my must-have list.
My mistake, I meant Swiss Arms Black Special.
Coach>
“…I own a lot of guns, but even I would hesitate to keep a gun like that one lying around”.
“…Can you imagine the mayhem, if a multi-cultural society like ours suddenly had a Sig SG in every home?”
It’s unfortunate that gun owners divide themselves between who should own what based on their particular tastes.
When you side with the “disarmament people” because you don’t particularly like someone else’s choice in a specific small arm, you have no reason to bellyache when they eventually come for yours.
Society’s problem is not the gun as in your second statement – It’s the multi-cultural part of the equation that leads to problems, guns or no guns, “scary” looking ones notwithstanding.
Coach>
“I must have mispoken. I didn’t mean to come off as anti-gun, quite the contrary…”
I should have read further down myself, from previous comment……….
My home bedside defensive arm is .45ACP with 200gr HP. If I can make it to a 12ga defender 00 buck from there all the better, the .45 is meant to stopgap and clear the way if needed.
Neighbours are not in any significant risk of over penetration regardless.
Just looked up the specs for the SG 550 and have to get one of those someday when I’ve got the cash. The Canadian version would be useless with a 5 round mag but in the US one could legally have 3 30 round mags attached. I really like the feature of being able to easily change mags without having to fumble for a new mag and risking dropping it when doing the process with cold hands. Would prefer it in a larger caliber like 7.62×39 but 90 rounds of .223 would seriously annoy a grizzly.
For rural home defense, assuming one had the full-auto version, 3 shot bursts would be very controllable.
“If you make guns less accessible, then there will be fewer suicides involving guns, it is as simple as that,” said Elsa Kurz, spokeswoman for Switzerland’s Stop Suicide campaign.
Hey Elsa, would it make you feel any better if those people had jumped out of windows?
Don’t get distracted people.
Suicide prevention is not the gun-grabber agenda. It’s a merely a STRAW MAN and no more.
BTW…Japan has virually NO privately owned firearms but a high suicide/homocide rate. Despite the Japanese criminals frequent use of edged weapons they still kill a whack of clients with “non-existant guns.”
Solzhenitsyn has written extensively about how Stalin’s reign of terror could have been easily blunted by simple physical resistance to the “knock on the door”.
One of my pet peeves is the use of the word “guns” to refer to personal small arms.
“GUNS HAVE WHEELS!”
“Point in fact google Queenston Heights, Crysler’s Farm, and the term “militia”.”
Who won Queenston Heights? The British 41st Infantry under General Isaac Brock and Colonel MacDonnell. Who won Crysler’s Farm? The British 49th and 89th Infantry under British Colonel Morrison. In both cases, the militia were bystanders (Crysler’s Farm) or arrived after the heavy fighting was over (Queenston).
G’bye.
cgh, who made the Brit forces run all over hell chasing them, so that it became too -expensive- for the Brits to keep pretending they still ran the country?
The militia.
Kind of like what the frickin’ Taliban are doing to -us- in Assghanistan, the one major difference being the Taliban are (reportedly) not really part of the Afghan people.
Never underestimate a cranky population equipped with small arms a a will to use ’em. Even Hitler and Napoleon didn’t try the Swiss on.
loki, for rural home defense may I suggest the above mentioned Maglight, it would be cheaper and better to let thugs burn your house and barn down than shoot one, as recent posts here have made abundantly clear.
If the issue is bears, you’ll be much further ahead with a nice Marlin lever action in .338 Express or a 45-70, to be more cowboy. BOOM thud, bear falls down. Might be a bit energetic for drywall, but you do not want Mr. Bear shrugging off your first round. Bears are known for ignoring .223 and sometimes .308 .
Phantom, we were talking about 1812. All too much of the Upper Canadian militia simply either didn’t turn up to fight or turned and ran if British regulars weren’t present. The behaviour of the York militia in 1813 was particularly poor. They didn’t even really try. Its behaviour at Chippewa in 1814 was also not very good. Some initial enthusiasm, unlike York, but they still turned and ran. The British regulars had to bail out the situation in the bloodbath at Lundy’s Lane.
Mind you, the US militia didn’t do any better either. There were some decent UC units, but mostly they were in the eastern townships. It all depended where. Eastern Ontario had a high proportion of UEL. Southwestern Ontario had a lot of 1st generation American immigrants who had little interest in fighting.
The situation didn’t change much in the years ahead either. The fighting against the Fenian invasions was incompetent and lame to say the least, and there it was dealing with nothing more than bowery bums and what were little better than drunken mobs.
The first time the Canadian militia really came into its own was in the Saskatchewan campaign in the 1880s. Simply getting a large force to Saskatchewan in those days, given the abysmal transport available and the amateurish nature of the Canadian military, was a miracle thanks to General Middleton.
As for the US, that’s another piece of mythology, Phantom. The real winner of the American Revolution was the Continental Army. The British only ever lost two battles to militia, and they were both very early on, Lexington and Breed’s Hill. But they lost the one huge crucial battle to the US regular army at Saratoga, and that ended any chance of Britain ever winning the war. Saratoga is rightly described as one of the world’s great decisive battles, and no militia force could have won it. The British lost the American Revolution for three reasons: 1. a continental army good enough that the British could not defeat in open battle; 2. the French naval victory in Chesapeake Bay; 3. the American revolution had become a global war of Britain against most of the rest of Europe. By that time, the 13 Colonies had become almost irrelevant to the global war going on.
“Even Hitler and Napoleon didn’t try the Swiss on.”
It’s extremely hard to invade up a mountain. Probably the Bosch could have had Geneva; I guess they never got around to it.
It’s also extremely hard to invade Russia, as Hitler and Napolean both found out. “In quest for world domination, Russia invade you!”
Anyway….
Irony abounds in this thread. The weapons they are referring to are of course military weapons. The ammunition must remain sealed, so these weapons have a negligible effect, at best, on rates of home invasion or rape. The issue is actually suicide rates.
You can’t have it both ways. How does the fact that the ammunition is sealed effect only negligibly home invasion rates but not suicide rates? Are you suggesting someone would open the ammo package for suicide but not for a home invader? That does not compute.
Dont invoke irony least ye suffer an ironic fate.
“Even Hitler and Napoleon didn’t try the Swiss on.”
Actually, Switzerland was effectively part of the French First Empire. French armies marched through Switzerland to Italy in 1800. Swiss troops fought in Spain throughout 1808-1813.