It would be interesting for a pollster to find out if there’s a growing concern amongst non-Quebecois Canadians about what plans Monsieur Jack Layton has for Quebec over the next four years. In this comprehensive column, Jeff Jedras carefully outlines a number of data points that justify much concern. Here’s a snippet:
What they can’t do, however, is try to have it both ways. They can’t tell Quebecers one thing and Canadians another. They can’t say Sherbrooke is their policy but claim support for the Supreme Court opinion and the Clarity Act, because the two aren’t compatible. They need to pick a position, own it and stand by it in all of Canada.
Layton is like a 12 year-old boy playing with firecrackers, except that he’s not using his own fingers but rather those of the Canadian public. Fueled purely by his own ego, he’s opening up a can of worms that is likely to be more than a little rancid. Do the majority of Canadians really want to spend this next decade dwelling on Quebec sovereignty issues … yet again?!
One thing’s for sure: when this doesn’t turn out well, and it won’t, Jack will accept NO responsibility for the disastrous results. For that would require character. To quote Dennis Prager, “one of the beautiful things about being on the Left is never having to apologize for anything!”
Update: Charles Adler discusses the issue with Dan Cook and then with Lorne Gunter.
And I wonder how the Canadian Forces will be able to help during natural disasters (or at least those in Quebec, I don’t know about in Manitoba or Alberta) if the Forces are disbanded except for Coast Guard search and rescue as is Dipper policy?
Who need the Bloc when you’ve got a separatist NDP?
A vote for the NDP is a vote for Quebec separation.
Go for it, Jack! Let’s get the whining takers out of Canada.
The troubling thing is the number of Canadians and Quebeckers who really don’t care if the ar$e falls out of ‘er as long as they get their gubmit goodies.
That doofus is tramping around Que.pretending to be the PM,promising the moon to Quebecers.NO guts to tour Slave Lake,and offer help..no trip to flood-stricken Manitoba..Layton is playing a dangerous game with Canada,and MSM paid no attention to him during election.They were far too busy with ‘Facebookgate’ cuz it involved PMSH.
This is the primary reason that the Liberals and Bloc are not completely suicidal. They see better days in the – not too distant – future.
“(2) In considering whether there has been a clear expression of a will by a clear majority of the population of a province that the province cease to be part of Canada, the House of Commons shall take into account
(a) the size of the majority of valid votes cast in favour of the secessionist option;
(b) the percentage of eligible voters voting in the referendum; and
(c) any other matters or circumstances it considers to be relevant.”
Geezuz,who wrote “C”, a Real estate lawyer? What a weasel clause!
Typical of the Canadian way, just enough lack of clarity to deny the purpose of the bill.
In the year 2016, when the new NDP majority government decides that Alberta and Saskatchewan should pay 100% of their oil and gas royalties to the Federal Government to support Quebecers who can retire at age 45 under the new Layton Plan,with a full pension topped up to $55,000 a year,the two Western Provinces will NOT be able to secede,due to ,”any other matters or circumstances it considers to be relevant.”
Nice work, guys.
Layton, like Wolf Larson, has decided, “it’s better to reign in Hell than to serve in Heaven.”
Traitorous sonofabitch.
This is why I’m not counting the Liberals-or even the Bloc-out.
Truth to a socialist is whatever advances the cause of Marx.
A few questions from a guy in the U.S.:
1) Wasn’t there already a referendum on Quebec succession a few years back, and didn’t it fail?
2) If it failed, why is this being discussed again?
3) In the spirit of self-determination, what happens if a majority (bare or clear) votes to leave, but the majority of northern Quebec votes to stay? Does the northern section get to split off from the areas near the river? Wouldn’t *that* be fair under self-determination?
4) Am I being too logical for the NDP (and what’s left of the BQ)?
MikeM@3:13 – You indeed are being too logical for our French and socialist betters. Canada is dividable but Quebec, appartently, is not. Just because.
When do we get a referendum in the ROC, on if we even want Quebec in Canada?
Interesting as a theoretical question but practically speaking its a moot point. When they lost the last separation referendum in 1995, then Premier Jacques Parizeau blamed the ethnic vote. Technically, that was true and the percentage of the “ethnic” vote is going to be higher now than it was then.
The major reason the PQ lost in 1995 was that “pure laine”Quebec women’s birthrate dropped from it’s traditional high level for the preceding two generations. They did not have enough children to grow up and vote with their Separatist parents. This birthrate hasn’t risen over the last 16 years.
A second factor now is the Harper Conservative government could choose to do what the Liberals never did. They could tell the truth about federal equalization payments, about how much Quebec receives financially as a have not province compared to what it contributes to Canada. Then much of Quebec voter support for separation would collapse.
Ironically,the drop in birthrate is due to the rise of Quebec feminism and the reduced influence of the Catholic church which supported higher birthrates.
A second irony, the reason Quebec is a have not province is due to the policies of the Parti Quebecois drove most of the formerly formidable financial sector out of Montreal. Similarly, many of the most productive citizens left Montreal due to the discrimination they felt from the Parti Quebecois. This was especially true for members of a once much larger, vibrant Jewish community in that city.
Jack’s in a tough spot.
If maintaining Official Opposition status is priority #1 for the NDP; then it’s politically necessary for the NDP to align itself with Quebecs interests(as loony as they may be). The corner Jack seems to have inadvertently backed himself into is strong support in Quebec verses a strong popular vote in the ROC. Politically speaking, it’s a no brainer; the NDP must maintain its support in the Quebec region to maintain their relevancy.
I’ll suggest that Jack Layton will not run in 2015.
Well, I think the Bloc is finished. The ‘sovereignty’ ideology will never die; romanticism is always around but economic reality trumps naivete every time.
And I don’t think the Quebecois will accept a Bloc resurgence to gain them what they really want: more, more, more from the federal taxpayers. After all, that’s been tried. And has failed,
Layton is in a difficult position. He appeals to the Quebecois because of his cloud-in-the-sky socialism. By this I mean that Layton’s socialism is unconnected to reality. The source of its largesse is always open, ambiguous, amorphous. All that’s talked about is the greatness of that socialist block party. Who pays? As long as it’s not the Quebecois..they don’t care.
But, he can’t deliver! And if he tries to deliver more and more – never mind being blocked by parliament – he stands to lose his basic support in the ‘Rest of Canada’. That is, will Layton actually move the NDP into a Quebec party? That’s quite a risk.
Then, he has to deal with the ambitions of Mulcair who does indeed see himself as the pivotal power in Quebec. I’d bet that Mulcair has an eye on being Premier in Quebec; just a guess.
It’s fun to watch!
“This is the primary reason that the Liberals and Bloc are not completely suicidal. They see better days in the – not too distant – future.”
Howie(they are at that, but they’re woefully wrong)
Howie
I’ll prognosticate.
The NDP must focus on keeping Quebec at the expense of seats in the ROC. The NDP only really want/need 75 seats, especially if the vote subsidy is removed. If the NDP focus on maintaining strong regional support in Quebec, they will squash the PQ. The PQ can’t offer Quebec anything that Jack and his magic wand can’t offer. He’s further along on the bogus referendum isn’t he? Did I say “bogus”? Sure did! Quebec is BLUFFING on all things regarding separation. Even if they voted to succeed, we’d not be able to get rid of them.
So, 1 down(PQ). The Liberals on the other hand have no infrastructure what so ever outside of the GTA, no donations, no supporters. They are not a legitimate player in western Canada or Quebec. That leaves Atlantic Canada(not worth mentioning) and Conservative seats in Ontario. Ain’t gonna happen!
If the NDP plays their cards right, the Liberals and the PQ are finished. Jack can offer Quebec anything that the PQ could offer, including a go-nowhere referendum. The PQ couldn’t even deliver on that. Jack’s “ace in the hole” is the fact that the NDP supporters in western Canada, the dunderheads, already vote for the Quebec pandering redistributionist’s. So what’s going to change for them?
If Jack can get past his pie in the sky ideology and exercise astute political discipline like Barak Obama, the NDP can secure its fortunes more or less.
Also, I don’t think Jack Layton will run for PM in 2015. He has taken the NDP as far as he can; and, the NDP must contract its seat count IMO for their own viability as I’ve outlined above.JMO
Voters are smarter than politicians (especially leftists) think we are. For every vote this gains or holds for Jerk-Job Jack in Quebec it loses him 2 votes elsewhere in Canada.
When our enemies are digging themselves into a hole, let ’em dig …indeed, offer a backhoe!
Parliament hasn’t even convened yet and I’ve ALREADY heard Dippers in my own family (sorry; I’m still working on converting them) complaining about Layton’s tilt to Kaybeck.
Fearless Forecast: Four more years of this and the NDP will be down to single digits in English Canada.
Mao Stlong Lepolt.
H/T socialist Bob Rae, Mao’s nephew.
This is Taliban Jacques Bloc Separatist’s road.
Follow Taliban if you will.
“Follow the yellow brick road: A new path through Genghis Khan Square”
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/05/28/article-1391868-0C50349B00000578-856_634x422.jpg
“This is a city built for a million people – but no one lives here: The Mongolian metropolis thrust into the 21st Century in a storm of steel and concrete”
Mike, you ask good questions, and here’s some answers.
1 and 2: there have in fact been two referenda, one in the early 1980s and the second one in 1995. None of these referenda had any constitutional basis; they were simply conducted by the Quebec government of the day. In both cases, the “Non” side, the side against Quebec separation, won. The Government of Canada then passed what is known as the Clarity Act which sets forth the terms of such referenda. It was deliberately vague on what proportion is required to support a resolution of separation, excepting that the Supreme Court stated that 50% was not enough.
Since 1995, support for separation in Quebec has dropped dramatically. It doesn’t matter that this has already been voted down. There is nothing to prevent the pequistes from trying it again whenever they control the provincial government and feel strong enough to win.
3. With respect to northern Quebec, this is not actually provincial territory. It’s something called the District of Ungava. It’s that part of Rupert’s Land which was transferred to the province in the 19th century in trust. That’s why Quebec has been building hydro dams all over it for the past 50 years. If you have infrastructure all over something, it gives you squatters rights if it comes down to a territorial argument. In the event of Quebec separation this would be a very big issue, with the Northern Cree driving it. The aboriginal population wants no part of an independent Quebec.
4. As others have noted, the Quebec separation movement is illogical in the extreme. They contend that even if they separate from Canada, they should continue to receive transfer payments from the federal government.
The separation movement is inherently racist. They talk about inclusiveness, but the driving force is “pur laine”, white wool. In a charming moment of honesty in politics, Premier Jacques Parizeau blurted out that they had lost the referendum in 1995 because of “money and the ethnic vote”. It’s racism goes back to the virulent anti-semitism of the Catholic Church in Quebec from the early 20th century. It’s now driven by population. The old francophone population of Quebec is being swamped by French-speaking black immigrants, particularly from Haiti, who also do not want separation. So there’s a growing element of desperation in the movement.
Indiana Homez, I believe that there will be a clash between the old guard NDP and the Quebec faction. The old guard have the back room and financial power and the Quebec faction the parliamentary power. I don’t think that their respective agendas are very compatible. JMO
“But, he can’t deliver! And if he tries to deliver more and more – never mind being blocked by parliament – he stands to lose his basic support in the ‘Rest of Canada’. That is, will Layton actually move the NDP into a Quebec party? That’s quite a risk.”
It’s not a “risk” ET, it’s the WAY FORWARD(for the reasons I’ve outlined). The question is, can Jack let-go of the belief he can get all Canadians to hold hands in apathy towards Quebec. As I’ve opined above, those outside of Quebec that voted NDP (mostly western Canada) already vote for a western alienation platform. The hippy vote is not at risk no matter what Jack says in Quebec.
Furthermore, the smartest thing the NDP can do for the national solidarity of their vote would be to strongly endorse the legalization of Marijuana. THAT is the only issue that the hippies care about, and that could potentially scoop CPC supporters.
Yes Howie
Quebecers are notoriously cheap when it comes to political donations. That is the one problem for the NDP in Quebec.
What a tangled web they weave.
Never, ever trust a bald man with a mustache.
The NDP have hitched their wagon to the past…
Just like the Liberals.
The economic and demographic centre of the country continues to inch westward.
The “Québec question” is simply becoming`irrelevant.
With apologies to the late Hugh MacLennan, the NDP is the party of two solitudes. I bet the vast majority of the party’s supporters and members outside of Quebec had no idea what was in the Sherbrooke document – much like many of those who voted for the ND in Quebec less than a month ago had any clue who the ‘local’ candidate was. For those Quebec voters the ND was simply the furthest left option once they had kicked the BQ to the curb for talking up separation and generally taking their support for granted – apathy is a very more enraging Behaviour – just ask your spouse.
In the middle is an aging hippie yap who is most comfortable in a milieu where he can stir the angst pot of the entitled and those who wish to be without any requirement that he and his party would, you know, actually have to do anything about it.
And thus the stage is set for the great national debate to be argued and discussed within and around the NDP. The result will likely be ashes for the NDP.
First, as already seems to be happening, is a good deal of pushback against the Sherbrooke document by those in the ROC. Push comes to shove comes to simple math (always difficult for those on the left, I know) that two thirds of ND MPs are from Quebec and that that is where the growth has been and the concerns of the ROC party members will be ignored. This will bring about a collapse of support for the ND – leaving them looking for another option (see apathy comment above).
Meanwhile, in Quebec Hacky Sack continues with his “if only we had power” rhetoric – this time framed in the “separation would be unnecessary if only we had power” meme. Quebecers will quickly become impatient with this, especially if the CPC moves forward with it’s agenda – making the senate electable, and adding 30 new seats (40% of quebec’s total in one fell swoop with even more to come in another decade) west of the Ottawa river. They will see everyone’s agenda getting attention but theirs.
Check that. They will get an HST deal and they will get a new deal on healthcare that recognizes it as a provincial jurisdiction, but those are CPC policies – not likely to be creditted to the ND and jack Layton.
Look for a resurgence of a Quebec-only party – the bloc or the Adq or something else in 2015. They will drain much of the ND support away – enough for the CPC to grab some more seats (watch how PMSH avoids conflict with Quebec over the next four years). Maybe a lot of seats.
In the ROc a similar phenomenon will happen – this time the LPC – in spite of the smoking ruin that it is currently – will get some votes and seats back and the greens might actually finish second in more than two ridings. But the CPC will be the big beneficiary – especially in northern Ontario and the west.
All in all – a miserable four years for JL and pretty smooth ride for the CPC that will allow a more strategic approach – PMSHs strength.
Good times…
I think EJacku Layton was as surprised as anyone to win all those seats in PQ. he knew he would take some but didnt expect the fill ins from the kindergarten.
Gord Tulk….please…they are the NDP…not ND’s
Jack will be up to his armpits in muck with Quebec and his historical base, he will then retire and either PQ will take over the NDP as their own with the base leaving to the other three parties (yes three) or, PQ voters will pile onto the CPC ticket in 2015 demanding their “fair” share.
I would prefer that the second option did not happen, but both scenarios leave the Liberals in limbo, and that’s a positive.
Indiana Homez:
Furthermore, the smartest thing the NDP can do for the national solidarity of their vote would be to strongly endorse the legalization of Marijuana. THAT is the only issue that the hippies care about, and that could potentially scoop CPC supporters.
This is one issue that could hurt the CPC as, in BC, cannabis is essentially legal right now. The smartest move PMSH could make would be to decriminalize cannabis which would probably result in far more CPC votes than would be lost from hardcore anti-drug CPC voters.
Maintenance of the status quo would be the best thing and that means stopping the CPC from passing any laws cracking down on cannabis. I’m sure the BC government would probably prefer harsher laws as these would increase the profitability of BC’s #1 cash crop and result in larger bribes for BC law enforcement officials and BC politicians.
I think the beauty part of this is, it doesn’t matter what Jack does. At all. For four more big, beautiful years. Furthemore, by next election “Velvet Touch” Jack and his NDPee high school marching band are going to be laughing stocks.
Because the -Liberals- own the media. Not the NDPee.
Homez and loki,
We need policy that is long term looking and good for the country – not issue due jour knee-jerk crap the liberals dished out for decades.
The “Québec question” is simply becoming`irrelevant.
Posted by: JJM at May 30, 2011 7:00 PM
Agreed. In fact, I’d argue the Quebec question has already become irrelevant. That the Tories took a healthy majority in parliament without Quebec support demonstrates Quebec’s decline in national relevancy.
I understand that somewhere between 18 and 30 seats are to be added to the HoC, most (if not all) of these in areas of the West and Ontario. Constitutionally, Quebec can have no fewer than 75 seats in the HoC, but as this is a fixed figure Quebec will hold a reducing sway over national politics as the West flexes its new political muscle.
Despite all of Harper’s attention to Quebec during the last five years, most notably recognizing Quebec as a nation within Canada, Quebeckers spurned the CPC and backed a losing horse in the NDP. As such, I have little sympathy for their decline into irrelevancy. They can choke on it, as far as I’m concerned.
Taliban Jack is an eastern Tranna parasite arsehole.
Funny as hell, when he takes himself, so seriously LOL!!
A riot waiting to come out of the closet.
Just waitin’ for the wheels to fall off and the inevitable crash. You know it’s gonna happen.
Eagerly awaiting the msm’s concern,…consternation,…contempt.
Buyer’s remorse (by the electorate and the msm cheerleaders) will explore new bounds.
Grab a seat…
Message for Quebec. Hope you win the next referendum. We can save billions and finally quit pretending we are a bilingual country. We can finally treat french like you treat english. Jack will guide you.
I wonder if Jack’s continuing duplicity will adversely effect NDP voters west of Quebec or will they continue to be faithful puppets that he can pull the strings of?
Jack has a record of nothing in Toronto where he was a politician for years, zero, zilch. He would ride around on his bicycle mugging for the cameras and whining whenever another politician wanted to get something done, that’s it, no ryhme or reason, whining for the sake of whining. That’s all.
This almost obscene harvest of numpties posing as MPs will tend to disguise the core of the NDP which has never had this much influence at the federal level and probably requires a drastic rethink by conservatives. We are used to thinking of a sort of homogeneous progressive opposition that we call “left-Liberal” and yet there is a really substantial difference. The Liberals are a party of entitlements and represent mainly an upper middle class clientele who like to dabble in a bit of socialism when it doesn’t affect their own finances. The NDP of course are catering to those who feel left out and want to have entitlements that they believe they deserve, or that they think others already have.
I’ve read recently on NDP-supporting blogs such curious statements as this (without mentioning names) — “Senator D. represents the Canadian bourgeoisie …” and of course we all know what is supposed to happen to capitalists, kulaks and the bourgeoisie. No doubt this NDP caucus will be quite a mixture of radical neo-Marxists, do-gooders, accidental MPs just looking for a place to belong, and trade unionists. One can pray that over four years of continual exposure, they will prove to be so far out of their depth that the electorate will trim them back to a more tolerable 30-40 member caucus again. But what if they push some of the right buttons in the nanny state and get themselves further into the mix?
Despite the fact that 1968 was four decades ago, the mind-set of the NDP is basically what I dimly remember from my university days. That generation of “social democrats” could say what they liked, but they were one step removed from being Marxist-Leninist. And that one step was that they had no guns.
“I wonder if Jack’s continuing duplicity will adversely effect NDP voters west of Quebec or will they continue to be faithful puppets that he can pull the strings of?”
The NDP can always count on the usual suspects regardless of how badly Layton behaves.
The list includes die-hard trade unionists, those living in constant fear of PMSH’s hidden agenda, the haters of anything military and the hordes of entitled who exist by taking without contributing.
A relative of mine who lives in the Toronto area and who is a close observer of Layton, says that he is without intelligence and that his driving motivation is to get the maximum media attention possible for himself. Well, with constitutional/PQ sovereignty issues Monsieur Jacques (he is a Quebecer by birth and speaks French fluently albeit with an Anglo accent) will certainly achieve his wish. He has now firmly embraced the tar baby. It will be a really nasty surprise for all the good, Quebec-hating but otherwise unintelligent Newfoundland folks who voted NDP! Looking ahead, the next Federal election should be like shooting fish in a barrel for the Tories.
I rather expect that Monsieur Jacques will not do much damage either to Quebec or to BC, AB, SK, MB, ON, NB, PE, NS, or NL (a mari usque ad mare).
The NDP and his own personal reputation is another matter. He has never been hated. Now he will be hated.