I’ve mostly avoided posting any links to my own blog but, in the wake of the Vancouver Riots, when you’d like to think that most everyone in the city would be trying a little harder to be a good citizen, this event occurred right outside my home Sunday evening. Priceless!
If you’ve ever wondered who has the arrogance and disregard to do this and this and this you might want to consider the “upstanding fine citizens” next door. Do you think such Bonnie & Clydes ever talk about such transgressions at their cocktail parties or Greenpeace rallies or Prius car club meets? I doubt it.
I’m not remotely suggesting that what went on here is on the same level as the criminal acts during the Vancouver Riots but a similar psychopathy appears to be at work, namely: “If we can get away with an illegal, immoral action and not get caught, then it’s all fine.” Incidentally, this mindset is a close cousin to the excuse many criminals use to justify stealing from others: “What’s the big deal? They have insurance.”
My guess is they don’t own a boat or they’d be dumping it off the coast.
I remember when the civic government would take couches and beds, back when the taxes you payed went for infrastructure and trash removal is a core infrastructure responsibility of the civic government, instead of blowing those tax revenues on the myriad aspects of socialism.
I’m sorry they were dumping behind your place, Robert, but until large numbers of people do just what they were doing, the civic government isn’t going to get it’s spending priorities right and start dealing properly with trash removal again.
I view those people as part of the resistance against socialist environmental totalitarianism, not Bonnie and Clyde.
Thanks for your response, Oz. Re Bonnie & Clyde, I only hope that everyone gives me a little literary license under the circumstances. Not every day that I have heated conversations with my neighbours!!!
Which is why now, when people have even legitimate insurance claims, they are more frequently denied by insurance companies.
Yeah maybe you should call the cops.
a similar psychopathy appears to be at work, namely: “If we can get away with an illegal, immoral action and not get caught, then it’s all fine.”
Not psychopathy at all.
Those people are old enough to remember, as I do, when all they had to do was put the old couch out on garbage day, maybe dismember it a little to make it easy to put in the garbage truck, and that was the end of that.
Nowadays the government is derelict in it’s duties while collecting obscene sums of taxes.
It’s normal to easily justify doing something like that because the government is acting in bad faith and since we live in a democracy, until everyone forces the government to shoulder it’s duties, then everyone is responsible for the government policy failures of this kind.
Normal people think like that, work through justification for their action that way, and don’t think they’re being immoral, it’s the government that’s being immoral.
I don’t litter, but I would consider dumping because the government should take things big enough to need dumping just as they used to, just as they take packaging and other smaller garbage now.
The only reason the government isn’t delivering these services as they once did is bad policy decisions and irresponsibility on the government’s part.
They want to modify our behaviour for no good reason and I for one resent it because they work for me, not the other way around.
Come on, Oz, give your head a shake. It’s not civil disobedience, it’s laziness. the city should ge picking up your household waste. You want them to pick up non-household waste? Do like businesses do and hire a waste contractor.
They could have paid a tenner and drove it to the local dump themselves, or, in Winnipeg at least, if you call the city and tell them you have a bulk garbage pickup, they’ll add the charge to your water bill.
Personal responsibility — it’s for everybody.
Actually Oz, it may have as much to do with powerful unions whose members claim injury for lifting heavy goods.
Throwing garbage in anyone’s backyard or in public places where others are going to have to endure the eyesore is not civil disobedience, it’s irresponsible hooliganism, IMO.
If these folks feel they’re paying too much in taxes, they need to do some phoning, some meeting with their city councillor, whatever, to find out what to do with this stuff. Maybe, as Yukon Gold mentions, they can drive their junk to the dump themselves. It might cost them something, but at least they’re not cluttering up the landscape for someone else to clean up.
A lot of the stuff I saw could have been given to Good Will or the Salvation Army. I don’t imagine any of these slobs would have thought of that. When I see wanton offloading one’s garbage where it doesn’t belong, civil disobedience doesn’t come to mind. What does, is entitled, inconsiderate, lazy, rotten pigs.
I have a place in Ontario. The dump that takes these sort of things is over 20 rough miles away, open 2 or 3 days a week with limited hours, and they charge extra for things like mattresses. So I will dump in protest. But they can afford a multitude of Bylaw Officers who actually cruise the country side looking to levy fines. They will check fires to make sure you are not burning something environmentally unfriendly
Personal responsibility….. what a concept!
When I was child and my father had a couch to throw out we went to the dump with it. It wasn’t left in the alley for someone else to deal with.
I know this is off topic, but there is a poll going HORRIBLY wrong. Maybe we can help out!
http://www.theage.com.au/polls/opinion/politics/climate-concerns-20110627-1gmft.html#poll
Typical socialists . . . really cheap & lazy types . .. too lazy to haul it themselves to the East Kent drop or too cheap to pay for a truck pickup.
Credit where credit is due Robert. Yes, they are useless a-holes. Way to tell them off. Maybe a nice public shaming will make the idiots think twice next time.
But the actual -reason- they are dumping in the lane is City of Vancouver garbage pick-up.
I’m actually surprised we don’t find more random piles of garbage, particularly paint and oil. Canadians are a lot more compliant with this crap than most places. But it is getting harder and harder in places like Vancouver and Moronto to follow the increasingly insane rules.
I understand Eastern Europe was covered with random garbage dumps for the same reason.
I prophesy that you’re going to see blatant dumping of full-on truckloads in public parks before much longer. I mean, they won’t arrest you for burning a f-ing cop car, dumping is going to be no problem right?
1) You take away the parents’ ability to give corporal punishment to the child; then
2) In school you tell the child he’s special, and that he’s entitled…even if he doesn’t perform academically–(you don’t stress them out with homework or penalize them when they hand in their work late); then
3) You saddle society with a very lenient justice system. So when our little darling breaks the law, he’s given a slap on the wrist…or his case is thrown out of court because of a technicality; and you get
4) The demise of Canada as we knew it. Note I say “knew” because it hasn’t been right for a long time.
Interesting analogy but I don’t think it’s a strong one, robert.
The Vancouver riots were riots; that is, they were fueled by mob behaviour and a mob is not the same as an individual.
The people dumping the sofa were doing it consciously, with predetermined intent and quite aware of their actions. As others have pointed out, the first cause is the Vancouver city waste pickup which won’t accept these goods. The second must be ignorance on their part; as others have pointed out, there are plenty of second hand and junk shops that would pick up the goods.
If we are talking about ‘garbage that bothers us’, how about all the people who, on the street, toss their food garbage (coffee cups etc) into the flower planters in front of buildings and stores on the street? Someone has to come and remove their garbage!
There is a way better strategy for getting rid of an old sofa. Put it out beside the street with a sign on it that reads “SOFA $50 – please leave cheque in mail slot” Said sofa will be stolen within two hours.
The world has gone absolutely mad!
http://www.newsherald.com/news/mother-94767-search-adult.html
Oz touched on but didn’t expand on the issue of government regulation and direction of waste/dump facilities.
Our governments have made dumping restrictive and expensive, pretending that we as citizens are bad people, taking stuff to the dump.
DO not be surprised if illegal dumping takes off. Here in the CRD, if I take a truckful of various waste, it’s going to cost me $50-$75, depending on weight, and that doesn’t include gyproc, or hazardous style waste.
The board got a little wisdom a few weeks ago, when, they were considering cutting back the dump opening from 6 days to 4 days a week. Someone pointed out illegal dumping would take off, seems, for once, politicians listened to common sense….
Somebody prolly dumped it in his yard and he doesn’t own a truck or think he should have to pay to have it removed.
Get a couple of buds. Wait for night and move it back to their house with an added bed. 🙂
DanBC is right on. Our Regional District is aiming for “Zero Waste” through huge dump fees and poorer service. Some of this is forced on them by the provincial government, some by the do-gooder lefties in the local government who have never stopped to wonder what happens to old sofas.
There was a local contractor who broke up a concrete deck and hauled it to the landfill. When he weighed out after dumping it, he was hit with a fee of $2400! You can bet any future concrete will wind up alongside some back road. Not because he’s a psychopath, it’s because the government has failed and he has to get on with his life.
The rural areas are lttered with city folks garbage. Since they obviously had a truck to get their fridge and AC into the countryside, they really could have gone to their own dump??
But Kakola is right – treat your stuff as antique, hold a garage sale or put it on the front of your property – there are enough dumpster divers to have it disappear.
Robert, The following shows that this isn’t a local phenomena.
http://tinyurl.com/6dkq2r3
Keep in mind that Silver Islet isn’t exactly close to any urban build up.
Favill wrote:
“ . . . 2) In school you tell the child he’s special, and that he’s entitled…even if he doesn’t perform academically–(you don’t stress them out with homework or penalize them when they hand in their work late) . . .” Guess what, there are jurisdictions, where ministries and boards do NOT allow teachers to give homework on the weekend or penalize students for late assignments. I kid you not.
Believe me, teachers would like to teach self-control and responsibility by meting out appropriate consequences, but, like the police, we’re ordered not to.
The arbitrary imposition of consequences we’re seeing—law-abiding citizens are targeted while miscreants and criminals get off—breeds resentment towards our “overlords”. When reasonable people think the powers that be won’t treat them fairly, they sometimes bend the rules. (This is very different from what happened at the riots.)
I tend to have some sympathy for Oz’s point of view: garbage disposal has become so overly regulated in some areas, it’s altogether ludicrous. (And raccoons are a protected species, which adds to the stupidity.) If municipalities would help their citizens with waste disposal, rather than regulating them to death as they reduce service, the kind of inconsiderate behaviour Robert witnessed would, IMO, be less likely.
That said, Robert, good for you for being a responsible citizen: if more people would speak out, in a situation such as the one you saw, people would think twice before dumping their problem on someone else—I hope.
We live just outside Vancouver and have a small hobby farm. The garbage pickup got so irregular and selective so we cancelled and take our own stuff to the dump(transfer station).
But we have a truck so its easy.
Recently I took a load to the dump at about 11AM. The sign said there was an extra charge if you went before 2PM. What the hell is that about? Its the same garbage going to the same place whether its before or after 2MP. So I paid the extra 5 bucks but protested. As well I have to do
I hate seeing garbage at the side of the road but am delighted when I drive by the dump gates and see where someone has left a “load” at the gate.Kinda makes my day.
Right on Kokola!
My wife called the city to pick up our old BBQ, they charged $20 on our water bill.
Put the BBQ at the curb at 10PM the night before the pickup, by 1AM it was long gone.
Next time we had a dishwasher to dispose of, we did thhe same without the call to the city – same result, gone by morning, this time we saved our $20…
Robert,
Do you still have any pick-ups there in Prius land? Maybe they have forgotten what one looks like and certainly don’t know anyone who might have one of those carbon monsters down at the Sierra Club.
It is the way of the city; don’t know where or how your food grows, furniture or building materials are made and where it belong when you are done with it. Only time you make a decision is when the interior decorator tells you that you are out of date and need “a little freshening up”…that will be $1000, thank you very much!!!
same type of people who’ll dump an old mattress or couch beside a charity clothing collection bin. If they can get away with it, it’s no problem. Costs the charities $$ to remove the unwanted items, though. How charitable of these people, eh?
kind of like a mob mentality thing again….hey, those guys dumped that stuff there, we can dump our stuff there too, etc. etc.
” it may have as much to do with powerful unions whose members claim injury for lifting heavy goods ” @ 6:08a.m.
Cheap shot,you can’t really think that you are entitled to have anything you put out for collection picked up .
I did the job (non-union) for about 6 months when I was much younger,and you wouldn’t believe the stuff people expected to be picked up,cement blocks,couches,cut down trees,etc.
Oddly enough, the more prosperous the neighbourhood,the more arrogant the customers in their demand for extra service.
If you have something that you think would be outside the limit of common sense to dispose,try meeting your garbagemen with a cold beverage and a helping hand. It works.
But is it Art? (or garbage)
Anyone have an idea of what percentage of our municipal tax dollars actually go to improvements/services versus what goes to wages/benefits?
At that juncture I guess one could ask as to what real value our tax dollars purchase.
Lessee…
Visible (downtown enhancement projects)… foolish non needed capital cost projects whereby the mayor begs money from the province and feds and council ups the local taxes to provide the town’s share and not taking into realistic account the further burden of operating costs/on going maintenance of said unecessary project…
City (upper) management… perks and wages,junkets…
Middle mgmnt… wages and benefits…
City workers(gov’t Union) wages and benefits…
And what little is left over, alloted for infastructure,repairs and services…
EQUALS…User Fees on top of taxes.
This seems to be the case in smaller interior communities such as central BC where I live…though I’m sure that the gist applies to larger urban centres as well.
I didn’t mean to imply that user fees are here yet,in the previous post…just that they are likely coming in the near future.
OZ:
“I view those people as part of the resistance against socialist environmental totalitarianism, not Bonnie and Clyde.”
Then why not dump it on the steps of city hall in protest or leave it in the street in front of their house?
They didn’t do that did they. They saw a chance to dump it in someone elses backyard and took it. Too hell with everyone else.
They are not resistance they are opportunists.
the city should ge picking up your household waste. You want them to pick up non-household waste?
Couches and old beds are household waste.
Where do you utilize them, in the barn?
Did you read the part where the city used to pick that stuff up?
If they did it before they can do it again.
OZ:
“I view those people as part of the resistance against socialist environmental totalitarianism, not Bonnie and Clyde.”
Then why not dump it on the steps of city hall in protest or leave it in the street in front of their house?
Because the government has an army of cops with guns, so the situation calls for guerrilla tactics to effectively resist, that’s why.
Am I going to die resisting the cops or am I going to kill a cop to dump something that the civic government should have made it easy to discard as they once did?
NO.
I’ll bet you’re one of those EvironMentalists who just begs for things like Smart Meters and water meters to “save the earth”.
Well I’ve got news for you.
The Earth doesn’t need saving and our habits of consumption and waste disposal don’t need criminalizing.
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Good comment DanBC at June 27, 2011 9:33 AM.
You said much of what my position is based on regarding this issue.
Am I going to rent a truck and wait in line at the dump for an hour during the banking hours it’s open and pay to use the dump when I’ve already paid for garbage disposal with my taxes?
NO.
Am I going to pay for a private contractor to take my garbage away when I’ve already paid taxes to the city to take it away?
NO.
OZ:
“I’ll bet you’re one of those EvironMentalists who just begs for things like Smart Meters and water meters to “save the earth”.”
NO, I’m not. Can’t stand them and all their global warming BS.
“Am I going to die resisting the cops or am I going to kill a cop to dump something that the civic government should have made it easy to discard as they once did?”
Honestly. Those are the only two options you see for yourself when disposing of an unwanted couch?
What about Goodwill, Habitat for Humanity, put it out to the curb, infront of your house of course.
You would be amazed at what people will pick-up out of the trash. The curb infront of my house a veritable Bermuda Triangle. I have put some of the most useless crap out there but someone always takes it.
What this couple would do or react if someone did this on their property, is to be imagined. If only the rubbish could be dumped right back!
No justice of this sort likely though.
What about Goodwill, Habitat for Humanity, put it out to the curb, infront of your house of course.
I had a double hide-a-bed couch that was too large for my new house when I moved here,(it was 25 years old but clean and well built to begin with and I take good care of my possessions) I phoned all of the charities and none of them would take it.
Fortunately, 5 years ago, I still had a van and my community had a garbage transfer station nearby that allowed a single free annual spring dump.
(not any more)
Back then you could throw out 3 bags of garbage/week and any additional bags required you to buy a $1 sticker or they would leave it in front of your home.
Now it’s down to 2 bags/week and the stickers are $2, that’s another 30% reduction in service and 100% increase to remove that extra bag, next thing it will be one bag and maybe $5 for any additional bags.
(no recyclables allowed, including lawn mower clippings)
This kind of shit by the government has to end.
One landlord in Edmonton who was fined because the apartment building he owned was riddled with bedbugs said the reason he couldn’t get them under control was that the tenants kept bringing in garbage like discarded upholstered furniture.
You would be amazed at what people will pick-up out of the trash. The curb infront of my house a veritable Bermuda Triangle. I have put some of the most useless crap out there but someone always takes it.
Apart from the fact that your situation/neighbourhood isn’t like mine, the sort of riffraff that would take a discarded couch or bed aren’t what I want hanging around imagining what treasures my home contains.
Have you considered the point that they could just as easily take it from the place away from my home where it’s been dumped.
None of your comments contain any solution to the government’s behaviour regarding the dereliction of duty on their core responsibility of trash removal.
Well, Oz, I did say, “If municipalities would help their citizens with waste disposal, rather than regulating them to death as they reduce service . . .” That’s sort of a solution.
How about if our bureaucrats were lobotomized and/or shoved over a cliff? That might help too.
Yes, lookout, and I should have mentioned that your June 27, 2011 10:15 AM was excellent.
Thanks for the support, it shows that you ‘get it’.
Government is creating a problem where none existed before because of political correctness coupled with the inability to comprehend human nature.
“This kind of shit by the government has to end.”……No it won’t, people have bought into the recycling, zero waste mantra. Same thing with pesticides and herbicides, we can no longer control bedbugs and dandelions.
Keep voting NDP, federally, provincially and municipally, you are gonna get way more of this.
Back in the eighties garbage disposal was simple and cheap, throw out anything you don’t need in one bin (or several more likely). Now three different pickups-garbage, recycling, yard waste and you are on your own with large items. The ongoing twenty-year and continuing discussion in Vancouver (remember its the best place on earth-snicker) of where to dump garbage continues because the socialists don’t think it is culturally sensitive to dump on aboriginal land, even though the band welcomes it and it provides good employment, an alternative in the USA also offends their sensibilities.
Getting back to the real point, those brown people have rights under Turdeau’s bill of rights, they have the right to their multicultural practices of dumping in the street. Robert should consider himself lucky that the couple don’t file a harassment case with the BC ummah wrongs commission.
Vanloser, the best socialist place on earth.
Should there be any limit as to what the trash people will pick up?
I think so,but it seems that most here think that if you can get it to the curb,the trashman must pick it up. That is ‘entitlement’ mentality. ” I pay my taxes,so serve me, peasant”.
That is ‘entitlement’ mentality. ” I pay my taxes,so serve me, peasant”.
~wallyj
I’m sure you and your children are well acquainted with that mentality, Postie.
Good comeback.
Yes, I thought it was appropriate, considering you make your living off of my taxes and you bring up the “entitlement mentality” while being on strike.
You got that peasant relationship entirely backwards considering which end of the tax road you live on, Agent of the Crown.
And the serve part…whoo boy, I could go on about that for a while.
It’s too much to ask for value for my money is it?
Expecting the government to deliver a core infrastructure service to traditional levels and getting value for my money is the “entitlement mentality” from where a postal worker sits is it?
Why do you even come here wallyj?
Once you finish your unwarranted,uncivil, and unfounded personal attack,would you care to answer my original question?
Should there be any limit as to what the trash people will pick up?
in my municipality, you are allowed something like 2 or 3 large items per calendar year picked up curbside by the regular garbage men, at no extra charge. And this is in B.C. We’ve taken advantage of this service many times.
otherwise, that’s what the contract removal services in the yellow pages are for. I guess the fine folks in the picture were too cheap to take the time and arrange for that service…
these folks are probably also the same type of people who scream and holler about pollution, emissions and global warming….
Once you finish your unwarranted,uncivil, and unfounded personal attack,would you care to answer my original question?
Look, wallyj, you make the unwarranted, incivil, and Liberal assertion that expecting value for my money is entitlement thinking, and you expect me to answer your question?
When did the government ever ask people what limit on the size of a piece of trash should there be?
I’ll tell you where the size limits did come from, though.
They were dictated by the Unions in the big cities and adopted by the bedroom communities which share the dumpsites with the bigger cities.(for an extra fee just because)
And pointing out that you are a Postie isn’t any of those things that you claim.
Governments have cut the level of trash disposal service because of union demands and strikes like the one you are curently participating in.
You’ll get an answer from me when you own the wrongheadedness of you first post, Postie.
Soccermom,
I’m guessing the people in the picture aren’t blessed with the same level of services you are.
“ that expecting value for my money is entitlement thinking, ”
Yes,in your case it is. You come across as a snob,an ‘ugly American’ so to speak. Paying taxes does not make you the owner of those who work for the government,just like buying at Wal-Mart does not give you the right to denigrate the workers there. You can criticize trash collecters,postal workers,or any of the many that you deem to be below your exalted status,from the safety of the internet. However,it is rude.
My question has an answer rooted in common sense. It is dependant on weight and dimensions,and how much do you want to pay in taxes.A municipality cannot keep people on the payroll in large trucks just in case someone has a couch,fridge,or whatever to throw out once every couple of years.
You query,” Why do you even come here wallyj?”
I come here because I can learn more here in an hour than I can elsewhere in a week…
…and sometimes I find it amusing to piss off trolls. Cheers bro.
Wal-Mart does not give you the right to denigrate the workers there.
Strawman ALERT!!!
only in your fevered imagination, Postie
Wal-Mart doesn’t have any union members, like you, in Canada.
Your conflating them with yourself or peasants with yourself when you are on the power end of the equation(a member of a protected sinecured collective pitted against individual taxpayers) and denigrate myself who is representative of the position of a taxpayer who wants value for the taxes that are rung out of us with no compensation except the dwindling service we pay for is just nauseating.
It is dependant on weight and dimensions,and how much do you want to pay in taxes
Wrong.
If I were to stand by a dismembered couch(see my June 27, 2011 4:09 AM first paragraph) and even offer to lift it into the truck it would be refused because it is a matter of the class of trash not weight or dimensions.
Unions want to be able to hire 70 pound Vietnamese female immigrants who can only lift 20 lbs as trash collectors at equal pay to the 200 lb Norwegian Canadian male.
The more dues paying union members/the more money the union makes, the more money the Union has for strike funds and political contributions to the NDP at the Federal, Provincial, and Civic level.
(and YES, unlike the Conservatives, the Liberal/NDP have finely honed election machines at all 3 levels of government+ Provincial/Civic School and Health Boards)
You want to talk about the tax costs of moving the odd fridge/couch/bed?
Why?
Would that take away from the taxes allocated in a civic budget to pay for increases in some union members paycheque and benefits?
I think so.
I’m amused.