Via Caroline Glick – US-commanded MFO in Sinai under attack”
Many more details here.
The Diplomad; – We Are Not at War . . . Just Under Attack
We are now paying for the stupidity of removing the nasty, desert drag queen who had long ago ceased being a threat to America and, in fact, was an ally (I have personal knowledge of this) in tracking down Al Qaeda terrorists. It was likewise an even bigger mistake, one on the scale of Carter and the Shah, to help push President Mubarak out of power, welcome the Muslim Brotherhood, and pressure the Egyptian military into accepting the MB. We can see the results on our TV sets, in the idiotic behavior of our diplomats in Cairo (and I know a lot of them, including the Ambassador)–and in the media’s never-ending quest to protect Obama and his foolishness, and give him a pass.
The reason we see deranged or at least nasty and unpleasant dictators in the Arab world is that Arab societies are deranged, nasty and unpleasant–thanks largely to the brand of Islam practiced in those societies which is particularly deranged, nasty, and unpleasant. In the Arab world you can have a brutal authoritarian who tries to restrain the even more brutal religious fanatics, or you can have religious fanatics who lash out at anyone who does not see the world as they do.
Is Obama still chooming it with Jay Z today?
Where’s that damn reset button.
jus wanted to pass along something you might be interested in – vote and make it a reality
http://www.threadless.com/submission/454748/Pre_flattened_Roadkill_Squirrel/showmore,designs
The Israelis have going to have to straighten out Obama’s mess. I wonder if Obama is answering his phone today?
*Cough*Bullshit*Cough*.
By which I mean, “put up or shut up”. I immediately discount claims of “personal knowledge” that Bin Laden Was Really Our Ally.
(Now, if he’d said “a useful asset because he was a focal point and we were watching who talked to him”, sure. But that’s not what ally means, especially combined with a claim to “personal knowledge”, which one wouldn’t really need to make that claim plausible.)
(I have no problem with the majority of his analysis, but that? That rings great big BS detector bells. Claims that strong require evidence.)
Now , now.
I am sure we will soon hear from that massive,subdued majority , the moderate muslims , who will rise as one and decry the killings.
Bueller?…..Bueller?
I was wondering when the MFO would get caught up in what is going on over there. I figure that the new Egypt gov’t will probably kick them out at some point, a-la the UNEF just before the 1973 war.
Canada has close to 30, mostly RCAF, CF members there(I’ve been trying for 4 years to get on that tour, alas I don’t wear blue). Good luck to them.
Sigivald, he wasn’t talking about Bin Laden. And if you can’t figure out who he IS talking about, STFU and GTFO. Jeez.
Whew. Well, of course, there’s a lot of his post with which I disgree.
First, I really don’t agree that Europe has been wrong about foreign affairs for 250 years; that’s so general as to be meaninfless.
And his support for the military dictatorships of Gaddafi, whom he called an ally of America, for Mubarak, and for Syria’s Assad, whom he calls a thug who is a ‘moderately rational act’ …I totally reject this. This is a common point of view, this support for dictators because it is assumed that ‘at least they provide stability’.
No, they don’t; they provide a ‘faux stability’ achieved by vicious and widespread repression of their own people, a repression which moves into the population and sits and festers into superstitious and ignorant ‘identity bloc’ hatreds.
Then, supporters of dictators also ignore two vital facts. The first is that such repression is economically costly, it requires a great deal of censorship, vigilance, and military energy; it is short-term. It can’t last beyond the lifetime of the dictator and can even be shorter.
The second is that the growing problems in the nation, which are population growth and economic inability to support this population, will explode with a worse violence than if the transformation from an inadequate to a functional economy had been enabled and guided by a constructive government.
And I disagree with the simplistic reductionism of his ‘it’s all due to ideology, ie, to the Arab Islam’. What he is ignoring is that the development of this Arab Islam, or Islamic fascism, isn’t incidental or accidental. It began at least 100 years ago; I’ve outlined its genesis many times and won’t repeat it. I do recommend Wright’s book on The Looming Tower.
But, the basic cause of this fascism is the failure of the ME nations to reform their economic and political infrastructures, and to prevent such reforms by brutal military dictatorships…which this pundit supports because dictatorships ‘provide stability’. heh.
The only thing with which I agree is his statement that both Bush and Romney understand what’s going on. I agree, and Obama’s abandoning the Bush Doctrine is the basic disastrous cause of this whole situation. His refusal to do anything other than give vapid empty speeches and his refusal to confront Iran, has directly led to this reduction into chaos, with different sects fighting each other for power.
Yeah well since right of the hop, Islamics/arabs have not been observant of diplomatic protocol or other observed protocols such as civilry….
Even the celebrated Sala-e-hidin was not to be trusted.
Diplomats and envoys have always been subject to the convenience or whim….the common practice of Ottomans to return the heads of diplomats minus their bodies was a feature of Islam.
Generally the only instances of islamic good behaviour was a result of defeat or show of massive force. The success of the USA in getting immunity from Barbary Pirates was the successful application of “gunboat diplomacy” as far back as 1791.
Concern of alienating the Islamic world is irrelevant….how many stages of alienation
Probably the simplest and easiest solution to this ME problem is to make and example. Iran seeks nuclear weapons…simply give them one…or two….. That worked extremely well with the implacable Japanese….
Europe and the west generally will eventually have to revert to Spain’s 15th century solution to islamic immigrants.
Islam has made the rules…and codified them….
Wind ’em up, let them have a go at each other.
WW3 could be Sunni Arabs vs Shia Persians.
Ringside seats still available. The popcorn concession could be worth a fortune.
@et.
So what do you Suggest we do?
I will check back in a couple days when you are done.
In case you missed it they chop atheists heads of to.
…Generally the only instances of islamic good behaviour was a result of defeat or show of massive force. The success of the USA in getting immunity from Barbary Pirates was the successful application of “gunboat diplomacy” as far back as 1791.
Sasqwatch,
no no you are wrong!!
it was having them read tons of books!!
same thing did it with the Nazis, the
Japan empire and well… the French in Quebec in 1759 where Wolfe had them read tons of books!!
It is unheard of in human history that a rogue nations was defeated by the use of violence or very harsh sanctions
unheard!!
/sarcasm off
There can be no war unless two sides declare one. Their leaders have dropped their gloves and their fists are flying. Our “leaders” don’t seem to want to push back just yet. War is the only way this sorry mess will get settled.
It will be a nice distraction from the depression we are in.
ET >
It’s seems like you’ll be busy, busy disagreeing with a growing amount of people as the reality of what’s really going on sets in.
I suggest eating large breakfasts; cause taking on world consensus is going to require all the calories you can muster.
knight 99, no, I’m hardly the only person who analyzes societal structures, and who considers economic and population factors as vital in the formation of a society…and of that society’s ideology.
And I’m hardly alone in analyzing the past 100 years of history in the ME region, following the rise of Islamic fascism, and the rise of the dictatorships.
So, for those here at SDA, who follow other views, such as:
1) the belief that an ideology emerges from the air, unattached to any economic or other issues, and despite this, is the root cause of all social, economic behaviour (this is a firm belief by many);
or
2)Muslims are all, genetically, savages of low IQ who ought to be killed as unborn defects (this is equally believed by many); or
3) since these people are deficient in reason and mind, then the best tactic is to support military dictators who will repress their savage impulses and provide stability to the world.
These three views seem to be held by many but not all here at SDA. I’d point out that there are others who reject these as inadequate to say the least and who look for infrastructural, economic and historical causes. I join with them.
As I said, I support the Bush Doctrine, which rejected all three points of view above. So, I feel in good company there, as I admired him very much.
ET:
4) Muslim in the ME are sexually frustrated and need to get laid more often.
And I’m hardly alone in analyzing the past 100 years of history in the ME region, following the rise of Islamic fascism,
if you could ask the Spanish people who lived under Muslim rule for SEVEN centuries
and if you could ask the people on the good side of the gates of Vienna they would tell you the problem began much earlier than a hundred years ago
like a tree blocking your view of the forest your focus on a hundred year analysis is keeping you from seeing many more centuries
canadian friend, I’m well aware of the history of the world, including the growth of the West, of the nation-state, of the era of exploration, of the transformation of the west from a two-class to a three class market economy.
I’m well aware of the nature of the Church in its repression of freedom, free speech, free thought and its role in the Inquisition, rooting out of Jews and so on.
For your information, the conquest of Spain and indeed the whole Mediterranean area was not by Islamic fascism, and was far more related to the implosion of the Roman Empire, to the search for resources, and to the fact that these whole areas were not all of them nation-states but were heavily feudal local tribal domains. Oh, and it all imploded on them as well.
Islamic fascism is an entirely different ideology and has a different agendad. It is directly linked to the dysfunctionality of enormous wealth going to an elite set of Rulers, from a one-industry statism, while the rest of the population is left out of this wealth-producing process.
I suggest you try to understand the difference between the Islamic 7th-10th century expansion in the decaying Roman Empire, and Islamic fascism which began 100 year ago with the industrialization of the ME.
The Islamists took advantage of a lazy board Obama and in return they’ve unleashed hell upon this earth. The Obama media is determined to blame a movie, but we all know what’s happening is the direct failure of Obama’s administration of non-elected TZARS.
Dipper, I suggest you read up on ME culture because these people are not sexually frustrated. Let’s just say that there are many taboos in North America which don’t apply in the ME.
War is the only way this sorry mess will get settled. – Skweeker
War is the only way? No, not the ONLY way. The other way is utter, total abject submission; we all become “dhimmi”. Given how things are happening, what Western “progressive” leaders are doing, how society is caving in so many different ways to their agenda, how does anyone here think this will finally play out? Please keep in mind that I am NOTbeing defeatist, but with current leadership in place, where else is it going, really?
Meh analysis. It was a mistake to bomb Qadafi but he was a goner anyway. Obama did NOT push out Mubarak. That is BS. And further, Assad is not an agent of stability. We shouldn’t get involved there but anybody who thinks Assad is pro-stability should stop writing like forever. Assad helps Hizbollah and a clutch of Sunni Jihadist organizations and helped pump lots of Jihadists into Iraq. It is also not true that all the Libyans are angry with the US there was a protest against the embassy attackers yesterday or so.
Why does the US have troops in UN peacekeeping bases yonder Sinai?
Rose, yes, Krauthammer has said the same thing; the Islamists, seeing the FACT that Obama has withdrawn from the Bush Doctrine and withdrawn, from his first day in office, from any effective presence in the ME, coupled with the weakness of the post-dictatorial governments, have effectively said:
‘Hey, this is our chance. Let’s act, let’s destabilize the government, let’s attack US and other embassies, let’s even get them to stop funding these governments, and we’ll take over’.
And, supplied by and assisted by Iran. And Russia.
Krauthammer said, since Obama has abandoned the ME, then for example, Assad in Syria is delighted. He knows that the US won’t intervene.
Same with Iran; they know they’ll get the bomb; Obama won’t intervene. Netanyahu said it publicly today. Israel can’t count on the US anymore.
Netanyahu is trying to get Obama to support Israel. He’s obviously failed to get Obama to show any interest in him (remember when Obama kept him waiting while he finished dinner?); and so, he went public, trying to shame Obama into meeting with him next week. Obama brushed him off; he’s too busy campaigning and appearing on pop TV shows.
Now, Netanyahu is openly saying that the US has abandoned Israel. Will Obama react? Of course not. Will Israel attack Iran? Probably, but who will help them? The only one who understands the situation is Harper.
ET >
“As I said, I support the Bush Doctrine…….. I admired him very much”.
Admired is a pretty strong word.
I viewed Bush as a likable buffoon who knew how to tow his party’s line well. There is no way the “Bush Doctrine” was drafted and produced by George W. Bush any more than a Paris Hilton perfume line is researched and designed personally by her.
But that is a side issue.
The Middle East is going to plunge into regional war, as it has done since the first Arab pitched a tent and married his second wife, pissing off his cousin. In 100 years from now it will be no better or worse than it is today. The only question we should be asking is – are we going to be around in 100 years and will we still have any freedoms intact?
“Why does the US have troops in UN peacekeeping bases yonder Sinai?”
The MFO operates outside the UN. That’s why I’ve been trying to get on it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multinational_Force_and_Observers
Oh ET it’s cute how hopelessly out of your depth you are. You’re like a little kid trying to explain that yes you really do know how to read the map and aren’t totally lost.
There is no FP difference between Bush and Obama. If you think Obama has ended an ‘effective US presence’ in the ME you should look up ‘Yemen’ ‘Somalia’ and ‘drone strikes’.
We’d be fortunate if Obama really did end the idiotic Bush doctrine that treats the whole ME like it’s our ‘White Man’s’ burden to carry forward.
The Bush Doctrine, Knight 99, isn’t a chemical formula. It’s a set of policies against Islamic fascism. It’s irrelevant whether Bush sat down, licked his pencil, and started to write it out. The fact that he approved it and followed it, as the president, is the key point.
First, make no distinction between the terrorists and the nations that harbor them; hold both to account. [That’s reasonable since terrorists are not, legally, part of the military of a nation].
Second, take the fight to the enemy overseas, ie, pre-emptive war.
Third, confront threats before they materialize; again, pre-emptive, and this includes a great deal of intelligence gathering.
Fourth, assist in the development of democratic institutions in these areas.
The one that I’m interested in is of course the last one, because I’m interested in the infrastructure (economic, political, ideological) of societies and how they set up institutions to both maintain stability and also, enable change.
For example, a constitution enables stability because you refer current situations to it for guidance. But, it also enables adaptation because it will always have tactics for amending it.
A representational legislature ensures stability because the laws it makes are common laws. However, it enables adaptation because its elected representatives can be booted out, those laws can be repealed or, taken to a supreme court for validation.
It’s these structures that give power to the people, whereas a sovereign monarch or a dictator rules by fear, by force, by repression, by whim.
Yes, the ME will probably move into regional wars; Iran is the greatest threat because of its imperialist ambitions. I’m quite sure that Saudi Arabia, as well as Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, etc, are quite worried about this – and the refusal of Obama’s USA to lift a finger makes it worse. We can only hope that Romney wins but the media in the US are fighting hard for Obama.
ET >
“The one that I’m interested in is of course the last one”
How is that last one working out, in Afghanistan for example?
Is this another one of those things that costs us a few billion dollars, the lives of our soldiers, our country full of illiterate psychotically damaged refugees, a few radical terrorists thrown in for good measure, and then we sit back for 3 generations and hope it all works out?
I’m definitely not interested.
ET, of course the US has publicly abandoned Israel. Obama’s refusal to meet with Netanyahu is simply the public declaration.
I also agree with you about the Bush Doctrine. While never completely articulated clearly in one place, you’ve summarized its main points above. However, that’s only the ME part of it. The Bush Doctrine also included a strong embracing of East European nations and their need for security against a nascent revival of Russian imperialism under Putin.
The Bush Doctrine was more than just about the ME. It was about American security generally.
Now, much as I dislike saying it, there is one area where I agree with Knight. The Bush Doctrine would have made no difference to the ME in the long run, just as Obama’s neglect will make no difference. Neither one was based on reality.
You yourself have pointed out many times how ME culture is fundamentally based on tribalism, wedded to a heirarchical social structure. The modernisation of the 20th C did not result in the emergence of a signifcant middle class the way it has in virtually all of Europe and is now doing so in most of Asia. Coupled with an overwhelming sense of historical grievance, the ME is a lost cause. They are an obsolete and backward-looking and highly insular group of societies and nations, and increasingly they know that. Theirs then is the politics of envy. And this simply reinforces their sense of difference and hence their insularity. The voices of modernism and moderation in ME Islam are shrinking, not growing, as they revert increasingly to their fundamental tribal political and social basis.
And there’s a good reason for that. None of these nations evolved as entities. Virtually all were created as a consequence of the arbitrary breakup of the Ottoman Empire by the Allies in 1920. None of them have ever existed as nation states prior to that time.
Their response to modern industrial civilization has not been that of India, South Korea, China, Malaysia, namely to embrace industrial development and commercial activity. Quite the reverse, it’s been one of increasing violence and the unending search for “enemies” both internal and external.
What can one say about a civilization that still shrieks “jihad” over the conquest of southern Spain in the 15th C?
And this is not going to change for at least the next decade or so. And no policies of the US or any other western government are going to change this. You yourself pointed out accurately a short time ago that fascism found a strong hold in the ME very early in the 20th C, as publicly expressed by the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem. And there’s a good reason for that. Through its racism and sense of moral and religious superiority, Islamic culture in the ME has many parallels within fascism.
And this leads to my final point. The one part of the Bush Doctrine that was truly a delusion was the notion of the civilizing mission of bringing democracy to the region. Bush’s error was imagining that it could be done with bayonets. Obama’s error was in assuming that mob risings against dictatorial government would result in democracy, enlightenment and all those good things.
Both have been tragically wrong. You indicate that constitutions provide stability. I would suggest that whatever constitutions emerge will largely be written with bullet holes, subject to being re-written in the same manner.
Rudyard Kipling would have been proud of the Bush Doctrine, but even the British had the sense to give up that foolish notion more than half a century ago.
An interesting commentary on Bloomberg, by Bobby Ghosh, who said that this interim phase, coming after the downfall of the military dictators in the ME, is made of up weak governments who don’t have the infrastructure yet to rein in dissent, to explain issues to the people, and to control the peripheral groups who are trying to make trouble and make their own political gains.
For example, he said the Morsi can’t call in the army to fire on the rioters, while Mubarak would have done so instantly. And, the radicals see the central government weakness as a chance to advance their own political agendas to take power.
The video? Well, there will always be people who choose to incite anger, and this video, released several months ago, had that agenda. As did the people who spread it, who put it online. BUT, a strong central government, with a strong communication system and police force, would be able to deal with this. During this phase, it can’t do so. Plus, the area lacks the institutions to deal with dissent.
In the past, dissent was not allowed; now, the central government has no idea either how to allow it nor how to deal with it when it moves into violence. In the West, we deal with demonstrations by either arranging for them as peaceful or, when violent, by police force, eg, the OWS, the riots in large cities, etc. And we have hate laws in our legal code where incitement to violence is illegal.
LAS, Iran is heavily involved in the ME, apart from its nuclear bomb. It supplies arms to Assad, as I’m sure you know, and has shipped them through Iraq, which shows that the US has no influence in the Iraqi area to stop these shipments. Egypt’s Morsi wants Assad to step down, which hardly endears him to Iran.
Iran is involved in Gaza, the mortars fired from Gaza are Iranian and their military are advisors in Gaza.
Iran has less inroads in Egypt because Egypt is primarily Sunni and Iran primarily Shiite, but it is still trying to network within Egypt and seems to be gaining ground among the youth to spread Iranian Shiitism.
ET >
“….I’m quite sure that Saudi Arabia, as well as Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, etc, are quite worried about this “
Their worried that their domestic slaves may have a chance to escape back home to India, Bangladesh, and the Philippines.
“Yes, the ME will probably move into regional wars; Iran is the greatest threat because of its imperialist ambitions….” – ET
Imperialist ambitions? Did you see the great Mosque in London the House of Saud is building? New York, Arkansas, Calgary, or Sydney perhaps?
Of course their worried, their tribal dictators, they worried back in 1500BC as well.
Knight ET has been wrong on her assessment of the ME everysingle time, why bother debating her. She won’t admit she hasn’t got a clue as an academic?
The Incompetence of the Mohammedan:
http://www.unc.edu/depts/diplomat/AD_Issues/amdipl_17/articles/deatkine_arabs1.html
Cheers
Our Ottawa dhimmis take up the fight ‘gainst Mohammed, pedophile et al.
…-
“Canada a haven for persecuted gay Iranians: Kenney
Canada.com”
@ ET at September 14, 2012 7:20 PM
“Fourth, assist in the development of democratic institutions in these areas.”
These are the words that keep getting us into trouble. They did not ask for democracy and don’t want democracy. They associate democracy with everything they hate about the west. Our loose moral standards, the gay acceptance and other lifestyles they see as perversions. Our overall rejection of god in any form and even our acceptance of women as equals. Our worship in material things and pretty well all things to do with Israel. This goes back hundreds of years and has not changed since the Crusades. To think we will bring them democracy when it goes against everything they believe in has cost us money in the trillions and a lot of blood. As humans we are simply incompatible and should accept that.
@et.
So what do you Suggest we do?
I will check back in a couple days when you are done.
In case you missed it they chop atheists heads of to.
Posted by: Ford Prefect at September 14, 2012 4:52 PM
a couple of days?
she was a teacher in real life and now she sees all of us as her pupils/students/whatever
she is permanently stuck in this role where she thinks we know nothing and she will educate us as she knows everything
this explains the condescending attitude
a couple of days?
she is never done, there is no end to this
… … …
Second, take the fight to the enemy overseas, ie, pre-emptive war.
Third, confront threats before they materialize; again, pre-emptive [war],
Posted by: ET at September 14, 2012 7:20 PM
Is there anyone here who still take Et seriously?
yesterday she was trying to portray me as feable minded man for saying the use of violence or war was necessary
and today she recommends the use of violence/war
is she bipolar or mentally retarded?
Women’s rights and gay rights is way down the hate list of Islam’s reasons to kill someone, they didn’t try to conquer Europe or hate the crusaders for their “freedom & liberty” or the medieval woman’s right to vote for a king anymore then than they do today. ~
Those “blasphemous offenses” don’t even register in the Muslim psyche as a cause; they are more or less considered an inalienable right to persecute.
Islam kills itself when there is no one else around to kill. Sunni verses Shiite, doh!
And we are supposed to sit around according to the apologists and figure out how not to offend these people, when they kill each other in droves when we aren’t around to kill.
So let’s build them a few schools to destroy and import them by the millions, eventually they will learn to love pork & gay porn and we’ll all dance around a May bush hand in hand each spring like a 1970’s era coke cola commercial.
Apropos of nothing:
Obama: The Day I’m Inaugurated, Muslim Hostility Will Ease
cgh, thank you for your very thoughtful and thorough analysis.
I agree with most of it; you’ve explained the failure of the ME to move out of tribalism and into a modernization with a middle class far better than I’ve done so.
I agree with everything you say, but for your final point! You write:
“And this leads to my final point. The one part of the Bush Doctrine that was truly a delusion was the notion of the civilizing mission of bringing democracy to the region. Bush’s error was imagining that it could be done with bayonets. Obama’s error was in assuming that mob risings against dictatorial government would result in democracy, enlightenment and all those good things. ”
First, I don’t think that Bush felt that democracy would arise via the bayonet. He specifically said that democracy was ‘not the task of arms’, but by supporting fledgling democratic governments with assistance in developing their governing infrastructure (election format, constitution, rules for elections etc), independent courts, political parties, a free press and opening up economic networks to encourage investment in these new nations.
Obama has no interest in democracy or any mob other than one that shows adulation for him. Remember, he totally ignored the Iranian demonstrators for freedom; they were asking for freedom. Not Obama.
The reason I disagree with you – but I DO agree that it’s going to take a decade and more, and probably a violent decade – in this I also follow Sharansky, who wrote that ‘there has never been an Arab democracy’ but that he feels that it will happen there. But that one doesn’t move from a society of fear and repression directly into freedom. It takes time to remove the old infrastructure and develop the new. Remember, Truman said that Japan would never be a democracy.
At any rate, the reason I disagree with you is because I am focusing only on the so-called ‘material energy’ of a society. Its capacity to support its population. Period. The populations of the ME have exponentially increased over the last few decades, beyond the carrying capacity of a one-industry statist redistributive economy. The poverty rate of the ME is very high, the youth unemployment is 25 to 30%. It requires a middle class economy to generate more wealth to sustain that population.
That’s my first focus.
To even have a middle class, a society must permit and have the institutions and laws that permit free enterprise, private property, free thinking, innovation, inventions, dissent, competition, a free market place.
That is, a free people who are neither living on a meal to meal basis, nor are dependent on government redistribution of poverty level funds, but who can be active in making their own wealth.
This economic freedom must be acknowledged by giving the wealth-producers political power. This is democracy, which empowers the free middle class.
That’s why I claim that democracy, despite the serious problem of a dogmatic ideology (Islam), despite the cancer of Islamic fascism, is inevitable in the MENA region. Their population levels have exceeded the carrying capacity of a redistributive economy. They can only borrow so much from the rest of the world to drift on, but they MUST change their economic mode. And that leads to a change in political mode.
@ Knight99
Agree, but name something they do like about the west other than we are suckers that give in to everything.
Add up everything we perceive as democratic and you can deduct it as a negative on their side. They hate us and we don’t like them. I’m satisfied with that.
Things are moving rapidly. The islamiss are taking advantage of a weak resident who is already preoccupied by re-election. Strange, though, that they are chasing an obvious opportunity rather than trying to get Obambi re-elected so they can strike with impunity.
I guess their current actions show what little respec they have for him. “We will insult and attack you in your face, even though you call yourself our friend:.
Canadian friend, the four axioms I was outlining were part of the Bush Doctrine; they were taken straight from his book ‘Decision Points’ pp 396-397. My focus was on the last one, the enabling of democratic institutions.
peterj, democracy and a lack of morality and respect are not synonymous, and the fact that the peoples in the ME are quite ready to acquire our ipads, cell phones, computers, guns, cars etc, shouldn’t be ignored.
As Krauthammer has said repeatedly in the last few days, the problem in the ME is due to Obama’s refusal to continue on with the Bush Doctrine and to effectively withdraw from the region. This has left a vacuum and the new governments are not strong enough to deal with the marginal groups, the radicals, who see this vacuum as a time to advance their own political agendas.
peterj >
Me too. You can never appease Islam, nor will you beat out or buy off 5000 years of its roots in Arabic culture and tradition.
All of this economic formula goobilly goo concerning the rise and growth of Arabic culture into a middle class utopia is hilarious. Especially when it is we in the west who are losing our middle class, democracy, and freedoms due to the very people who are proposing it for the Arabs.
LOL.
@peterj
“…name something they do like about the west…”
I’ll give you two answers: WELFARE and HRC’s.
ET is capable of justifying any statement as long it fits her pre-conceived narratives. Terrifyingly, she believes them too.
ET >
“Its capacity to support its population. Period. The populations of the ME have exponentially increased over the last few decades, beyond the carrying capacity of a one-industry statist redistributive economy”.
Indeed.
They have exponentially increased in perfect step with the economic welfare that we have given them to overpopulate their own resources and their subsequent “carrying capacity”.
http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/05/24/its-all-your-money-foreign-aid-muslimarab-nations
Our bleeding heart appeasement towards our enemies has created the poor and unfortunate situation for them that you have described.
Now I guess the next level of experimentation/ sorry “economic formulation” is that we need to bomb them into radical Islamic nations, give them more aid to physically survive, and then in a mere 2 or 3 generations, it’s McMansion’s all around, 2 SUV’s, 4 wives and 30 children earning their PHD’s in whale psychology.
knight 99, the people causing our loss of middle class power and our freedoms in the west, namely, the socialists such as Obama and the leftists, aren’t proposing democratic institutions and freedom for the MENA.
As Krauthammer has pointed out repeatedly over the last few days, the vacuum left by Obama’s withdrawal from the Bush Doctrine has opened the door to the radicals. At home, the Obama gang have been steadily reducing freedom of speech, freedom of association, freedom of religion and taxing the middle class to oblivion.
What does the left propose for the MENA? The repressions of cultural relativism, multiculturalism, giving in to the radicals, apologizing for being American. Nothing to do with freedom but repression.
Many years ago a reborn muslim – yes they have them – explained to me in a puzzled way that Islam and democracy didn’t agree. He really didn’t like it but there it was.
If it was religion no democracy.
If it was important no democracy.
If it was unimportant like sport or horse racing or camel breeding democracy was OK.