On June 10th, Halifax MP Geoff Regan filed an Order Paper in Parliament with 13 questions about the CSA. On November 28th, the Minister of Industry responded.
James Moore is the federal Minister of Industry, and his response to the Order Paper launched a new series of difficulties for the CSA.
The first question on the Order Paper was whether the CSA is “a commercial entity or a regulatory entity.” The Minister responded that “the CSA is not a regulatory entity.” Note that the Minister did not say that the CSA was commercial, only that it wasn’t a regulatory entity.
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The bureaucrats at Industry Canada have therefore advised the Minister to smudge it all over; the CSA is not a regulatory entity but it is not necessarily a commercial entity either. In the legal parlance this is known as trying to suck and blow at the same time.
Sorry for sounding and being so ignorant on this subject could somebody dumb it all down for me please.
What’s going on here?
CSA-“agency” for standards of products sold in canada. sorta like, not to be confused with, UL (underwriters labs in USA).
a CSA sticker on your product can be “bought” so you can meet specifications. rather cheap “testing”.
CSA appears to be nothing more than a paper shuffle, are trying to stop PS Knight from continuing to publish a layman’s guide to Canadian Electrical Code.
Fed gubmint obfuscates need to fix this “quasi” agency.
I have used P.S. Knight’s layman’s guide many times while doing legal wiring on my own residence. The books are excellent — so much so, that when there’s disputes with city electrical inspectors, I can cite a section of the guide to start a conversation about whether I’ve done anything “not to Code.” The inspectors respect the guides and refer homeowners to them often.
Min Moore could have opined:
“Maybe they are a sort of government friendly front
not unlike the old Canadian Red Cross Blood Service”.
And most of us can remember how well that worked out.
A long time ago, the government issued “letters of marque” to this organisation called Canadian Standards Agency, and it is still privateering under the name CSA. It cruises the economy, plundering businesses wherever and however it can catch them.
CSA is nothing more than the BBB or COR or any of these other paper/pen/pushing buaucracies, if you pay us the money, we will say your product or you are good. Another make work program for the useless of society who cant get out and start their own business, to lazy to work for someone who has a business so they start these phoney agencies and employ more useless slugs to get in the way of the productive. Insurance companies are there to protect the seller and the buyer, if the seller sells a faulty product the buyer will sue, carry insurance. If the buyer takes the advice of the CSA or the BBB or hires a contractor with COR and they encounter a loss of some kind, can they sue CSA or BBB or COR or whoever? NO! So the lesson is stay as far away orf the useless and carry adequate insurance. The Federal/Provincial governments motto ,and so many municipal governments now also is, “Finding a way to get in your way”, this is where it started in Europe, more regulations so the productive tax payers finally gave up, and the useless pension/benefit suckling parasitic regulators are standing there now screaming, “but whos gonna pay my pension and benefits”.
Unfortunately the ‘government’ does force use of the CSA through the health and safety / provincial ministries of labour. CSA or other approved authority must be present for any new equipment installs. CSA is almost a given for any powered equipment with moving parts, not just stickers on electrical panels.
“Given the Minister’s Parliamentary declaration that the CSA is not a regulatory entity and given that it therefore has no legitimate need for a Federal Charter, we are hereby requesting that Industry Canada immediately act to revoke the CSA Charter or, in the alternative, to immediately furnish P.S. Knight Co. Ltd. with its own Federal Charter, equivalent in rights and responsibilities, in order to level the field.” … or buy us all a didgeridoo so we can at least have a reason to suck and blow at the same time too.
.. a practice Minister Moore became intimately familiar with during his last portfolio.
The CSA also provides standards for Aerial cables and heights over water, rail and roads. Most companies want a per-determined standard they can follow to protect themselves from any liability. If you dismantle CSA, you need some sort of replacement carrying out the same function.
Amazing what the kleptocracy will say, in attempting to defend the indefensible.
So the CSA has no regulatory authority, good so I can ignore my local inspectors who enforce it? Thankyou Mr Minister.
The CSA is cursing the day and the committee who set out to extort PS Knight, these odious parasites have defrauded the taxpayer for years, feathering their nest and inflating their authority, Cartman from Southpark at your expense.
The rule of holes seems to be working, a similar examination of Workers Comp, would lead to similar contortions.
The Tooner nails the modus operandi of the CSA 9.03am comment, far too much of the massive overburden of government is operating this way.
A minimally beneficial idea,govt certification, bloats to crush all production at the cost of the taxpayer, the kleptocrats gain status, pay raises and pension, the taxpayer pays more and more each year for less and less.
Benefits approaching zero, the property owner is and always was at the mercy of the tradesman,manufacturer and builder.
Government protection is a lie, simple test is who does the protecting?. What have they built? What can they do? How was their work?
But the public has to, by force of legislation, trust their judgement, but they can not be held financially responsible for even the most blatant screw up.
A perfect environment for corruption..
If you “like” these WCB,BBB, COR parasites, you must just LOVE the new standard in construction,”LEED certified”,which is another pure BS certification to appease green lunatics and employ more bureaucrats.
The BBB is a particular annoyance to me as they claim to be “there to protect the consumer”,while they do nothing of the sort. I have called the BBB about companies I’ve considered hiring,and all they will tell me is if the company’s membership dues have been paid.
I have seen companies in Court for fraud before they are finally put on the BBB site with a warning,far too late for the consumer.
I won’t mention my love and affection for the WCB as it’s too early to get my blood boiling today.
CSA IS a regulatory entity as you can’t sell a product in Canada without CSA certification. Moore is wrong. He’ll probably do the same sterling job in this Ministry as he did in Heritage.
Remember how quickly he sold off the money losing CBC?
Moore is wrong … yet again …. I guess Harper thought he could keep his mouth shut and stay out of trouble at Industry Canada.
Ahh well …. look Mike Duffy cashed a cheque.
It’s still going to cost someone to come up with these standards and defend them in court. Whoever does it will want to protect their investment by having the government limit competition in the field. Since it’s all trademarked, likely any other organization is going to have to start from scratch.
One way or another you will have to pay to use any standards, unless it’s published on a government website.
Why should Canada reinvent the wheel?
The USA , UL standards work just as well as the theatre put on by CSA.
Buyer beware is still the only real defence for consumers.
And these standards have force of law, you have no complaints or appeals process to redress abusive inspectors using CSA as a club.
Now the Minister shoots his own feet off, muddying the water, if Minister Moore is correct, he has just given grounds for consumers all over Canada to sue their Legislatures for perpetuating a fraud upon the consumer.
As an Electrician with over 20 years in the trade, I have paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for permits,imposed under CSA regulations, if CSA has no regulatory Authority, I want my money back.
Csa is nothing more than a lick and stick company in my opinion!!How could Csa between 2002-2010 sell mod manufacturers certification labels not being accredited by the SCC. John Walters executive Directer has allowed Csa to continue on with no repercussions
Walters was employed by Csa prior to taking on the roll with SCC. A conflict you might think!!!!
Better yet Csa sold it a services to Champion Homes in the US. Csa apparently did quarterly inspections of the plant, materials and construction methods.
The net result was homes built bearing Csa A 277 certification stickers and the homes do not meet the minim Candian building code.
Csa boasts if the Csa mark is present the product is safe and meets there Standards.
They are many other Reputible Certification agencies to take on Csa s work if they get wiped out. Merchant law has an 8 Billion Dollar class action against Csa and the Scc!!
Csa boasts about 150 m cash in Bank!! Merchant may take it all !
Restore Csa!!
Ash Sahi, the CEO likes to do “social good”, which requires a lot of empire building. The CSA has come a long way from their original mandate in 1919 which concerned itself with safety in bridge structures and other critical standards. Now they just concentrate on everything from mental health to hockey tape. I think , when they grow up they want to be another EPA which is the apex of empire builders and exist to destroy logic and common sense.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/csa-group-setting-the-standards-to-keep-people-safe/article14591874/?page=all
The Globe and mail article about the Perfect CSA is quite the opposite. We have written proof of quite the opposite. We have more than enough information to put them out of there misery. Looking to hook up with Black well from the Globe and mail. Csa has cost many Canadians
millions of Dollars with there Monopoly Labels. Walters of the SCC has a play in all of this. Let the Party Begin!!!
Based on Moores comments in parliament about CSA I believe Merchant Law can be solicited to act on behalf of many Canadians in another Class Action suit against CSA Group and CSA international.