Last month, Premier Wall made headlines by reversing his gov’ts decision to allow peeler bars to serve alcohol.
He took some heat, said his mea culpa’s and spent some banked respect from his supporters.
But…he wasn’t wrong.
As opposed to my youth, I’m more conservative than libertarian. The simple reason I can give is that in contrast to libertarian belief, you really can’t trust all individuals to make the moral choices.
Update: First link fixed. TY.
you really can’t trust all individuals to make the moral choices.
No one ever claimed you could, not even libertarians. But is it the fundamental job of the state to ensure we all make moral choices?
Both links go to the same article.
Do you have a link to the Brad Wall/peeler bar/alcohol part of the thread topic?
“you really can’t trust all individuals to make the moral choices.”
Their choices are NONE OF YOUR GODDAMNED BUSINESS. And by the same tokens, neither should the consequences of their choices be any of your problem, either.
This is where it starts: we’ll make just this one little restriction on liberty. And then net year, another. And the year after that, two more. It’s not the same people chipping away at liberty year after year, but after a few decades you look back and wonder “when did we become a police state?” as is happening in Wisconsin now.
“you really can’t trust all individuals to make the moral choices.”
No, you can’t,but LEAST trustworthy is government,who turn into politicians/ whores every four years.
Now,I wonder what “kid glove” treatment awaits the perpetrators of this particular crime, community service, deportation for any who weren’t born here?
Pictured were a Black and a Hispanic, so their court-appointed lawyers should have no trouble playing the race-victim charge.
Agree with Ed Minchau, give ’em an inch….
With our “proceeds of crime” legislation in most Provinces in Canada,the Wisconsin scenario isn’t far fetched.
Yeah, thank goodness he’s banned stripping from places where inspectors can walk in at any time. Thanks for protecting us, Mr. Wall.
And thank goodness you’ve driven it underground, where those sensitive SLGA inspectors won’t have to see it.
Of course, there is that little teeny question about rub & tugs, which is where the human trafficking actually happens. What’s the rationale for allowing THAT, Mr. Wall?
Perhaps some names on some client lists that can’t be made public? Or is it just that if you don’t see it, it doesn’t exist?
What a hypocritical move.
I would think that allowing establishments of this sort to serve alcohol would actually bring them under greater state scrutiny and encourage them to be more cautious in choosing which human relations consultants (e.g. North Preston’s Finest)they employ.
Adultery is an immoral choice. It destabilizes marriages, families, puts people through chaos, and is no doubt a scourge on society. And it happens all the time.
Should we ban establishments which enable adultery?
I know this may come as a shock to you, but I don’t think “dance club” means what you think it means.
I won’t explain the difference between a peeler bar and a dance club, but perhaps you should get out more. They are not the same.
Abuse of liquor licensing power by the Wall regime.
Human trafficking? What an absurd term. Is slavery not still illegal?
If people are being slaved then lets call it that, deal with that.
Fancy schmancy new terms designed to scaremonger and fog the issue aside…
I don’t see the connection between alcohol consumption and slavery or even granting a licence to an establishment and slavery.
I don’t see any connection between the slavers at link #2 and any licenced business of any kind.
Probably the most juvenile post I have raad on SDA all year.
Must be a liberal.
Agree strongly with you and Ed Minchau. It is NOT the business of the state to ensure we all make what some government deems to be appropriate moral choices.
[[you really can’t trust all individuals to make the moral choices.]]
Everything from the Salem witch trials to the Volkstead act (alcohol prohibition)…what could possibly go wrong.
Pimps and bootleggers have always been a feature of boom towns….now drug pushers are added to the mix…
Armies always have had camp followers…..
That don’t make it right…..
Horrors……some things could lead to dancin’……
No Paul.
Ed Minchau’s comment is not juvenile at all.
Quite adult in fact. He clearly explains that the moral choices are yours to make, not his.
And clearly explains the other side of the coin, viz., problems that may result from your poor moral choices are not his problem and he shouldn’t me made to pay for them.
That’s a very grown up non-radical view.
Yours is tho, being that you make a simple declarative statement without backing it up.
“you really can’t trust all individuals to make the moral choices”
More importantly, though, you can’t trust a government that legislates extra-judicial morality.
So, you’re claiming that Premier Wall’s policy reversal to not allow a partially clad peeler bar. That is going to protect Saskatchewan from a black, Toronto street gang?
I sure the town of Codette, Saskatchewan (pop. 205), which had the only partial peeler bar in Saskatchewan, is feeling much safer.
Meanwhile, Toronto street gangsta’s are showing up in Saskatoon, shooting up the place and “carving out” a piece of the illegal drug market.
“you really can’t trust all individuals to make the moral choices”
I don’t think you can trust government to make moral choices (look at Venezuela, for instance).
You can only put in lots of checks and balances and hopefully preserve a constitution that allows people their own freedom. People can then use that freedom to make their own moral choices, or to join an organization like a church to help make their moral choices for them.
As far as I am concerned, you really can’t trust anyone all of the time to make moral choices, not even the pope, you can only leave it up to the free will of mankind, both individually and collectively. That’s one reason why I am a libertarian.
That being said, there are some moral choices that governments must make (national defense, for instance) so the libertarian stance does not blind me to that reality. But the libertarian stance is that whenever possible, defer morality to the citizenry. Government is no better at morality than anyone else and we should all be allowed to express our own morals.
This is not a matter for more restrictive legislation. It’s a simple matter of enforcing the laws already in place. Moving this venue out of peeler bars will only push it into another area that is even less visible. Just enforce the damned laws or take them off the books. More nanny state regulations won’t do anything to solve the problem and a politically correct slap on the wrist for these pimps is hardly a deterrent. Just enforce what’s already there to the full letter of the law.
“”you really can’t trust all individuals to make the moral choices”
Then what needs to happen in that case is we need to STOP shielding said individuals from the consequences of their moral choices, rather than letting nanny government dictate what those choices ought to be.
“If by this decision we have inadvertently allowed for even a marginal increase in the chance for human trafficking, it’s the wrong decision,” said the premier, adding that strip clubs are linked to organized crime.”
Trafficking? People move around what’s this about trafficking?
It’s in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms that movement is a fundamental Right/Freedom.
IF…Marginal Increase…Chance…weasel words for stripping away liberty.
Strip clubs are linked to organized crime? So are governments!
Governments ARE organized crime. Government IS Theft. Governments have been little more than organized crime since they were first created back in the mists of time.
LET’S BAN THEM. or at least drive them underground
Brad Wall is part of the problem.
I note with some amazement that in Sask. you can now have booze or skin, but not both at the same location. How inconvenient is that! 😉
I also fondly remember the beer parlours in Vancouver having full on nudity back in the early ’70s. The gals had agents, and made the pub circuit throughout BC. My understanding (at the time ) was that they made very good money.
* and yeh, Ed Minchau is spot on!
“you can now have booze or skin, but not both at the same location”
Theoretically.
In reality the peeler bars charge a cover to get in and then the patrons sit at little tables which have table cloths.
The patrons get thirsty so they purchase an expensive large opaque glass of pop from the in-house snack bar which they then take to their tables and then surreptitiously pour the mickey that they brought with them into it beneath the table cloth.
Well,there goes the hotel industry.
It seems Mr. Wall doesn’t know the difference between stripping by choice (for $$$) and forced prostitution.
Brad Wall hates single mothers!
I miss Mitsie Dupris
There you needed a beer glass for the act!
And where is Anna Banana now it this new age of fresh produce appreciation
Yeah, I well remember the gorgeous strippers at the Cecil at lunch break. The ladies were athletic as any gymnast.
There was no cover charge, just the price of beer and a burger. Then there was No.5 Orange…lots of good peeler bars in Vancouver back then.
You mean motels. I’m on the libertarian side on most things. Only when something becomes or causes major social problems should the state intervene. I am thinking here of late 19th. Century China with its opium problem which did cause widespread social ills. Drug addicts should be forcibly treated as they generally have lost their ability to make sound judgements.
When my parents went out to drink in the 50s that large opaque glass of pop was called a “set up.” The club owner knew you had your own booze to pour into it and turned a blind eye, they even gave you extra glasses. Of course, back then, there were separate entrances for “Gentlemen” and “Escorts.” Today, “Escorts” has a whole other meaning.
“Adultery is an immoral choice. It destabilizes marriages, families, puts people through chaos, and is no doubt a scourge on society.”
Back when statistics on who demanded the divorce were kept, it was clearly shown that women asked for divorces 2/1 over men. This statistic was at odds with the feminist trope that men were overwhelmingly dumping their wives for younger trophy wives so they stopped gathering that particular statistic.
Guess where the vast majority of these women were meeting their new paramour for which they were dumping the husbands and children? WORK. Most divorcees where meeting another guy, committing adultery with him, because she spent more of her waking time interacting with him at her job than she spent with her husband and kids at home.
Statistic or no, the same thing is happening today, except that more women are running off with another gal the met at work instead of a guy than they were back in the day.
In my several decades of experience, that would include anyplace that men and women can co-mingle…and if memory serves me, that applies particularly in Saskatchewan. Lovely people.
where is your daughter stripping??? I wan’t to go toss some loonies at her pussy.
Strippers are causing all the murders and crime in Saskatoon. Just wait a minute, Saskatoon doesn’t have strippers. Saskatoon, 5 murders in 4 months, a handful of shootings and speeders on Circle Drive freeway are the real criminals
Contrary to many of the SaskParty’s claims we really haven’t moved that far from the NDP days. Our gov’t still thinks we have to be spoon fed and protected from everything by the establishment which of course knows better than us what is good or okay. Because they are the smart ones right?? Like Devines henchmen who were caught with their hands in the cookie jar and then defended themselves by claiming they were duped and weren’t really all that fiscally smart after all.
I don’t think this is the first or last time they have or will backtrack, in fact it seems to be becoming a habit.
Classy Doug, classy.
Doug, tossing loonies would be all you would be able to DO, it would take a man to do more, just sayin
Overeating is an unhealthy choice. It destabilizes marriages, puts people through illness, and is a leading cause of death. And it happens all the time.
Should we ban establishments which enable over-eating?
and could some one plz tell what church Brad Wall attends
Just another state thug throwing his weight around. Big effin surprise.
Ed Minchau Nailed it.
Now, how do I block Paul and Doug – appropriately named – Young?
I remember years ago when lotteries were illegal, abortion was illegal, divorce was uncommon and difficult, prostitution was illegal. People had more morals then than what the world has degraded into now.
Following Eddie’s advice, I should have the moral choice to take a fire arm and terminate someone I don’t like. And it wouldn’t be a crime.
Reading the posts brings out one clear thing. Morality doesn’t exist any more. People want to behave like animals instead of behaving like a decent person would. And they complain that the government is holding them back. Sodom and Gomorrah all over again. What a sick world.
Cut, paste.
“Rather than prevent exploitation and trafficking in women by organized crime… surely the government can… earn a living by… a regulated environment… video recordings or other surveillance methods…”
Hmmmmm, I wonder… what do you suppose a peeler earns annually?… Well, less 29% of course.
“I remember years ago when lotteries were illegal, abortion was illegal, divorce was uncommon and difficult, prostitution was illegal. People had more morals then than what the world has degraded into now.”
Years ago all those things were illegal and people still did them.
There were the Irish Sweepstakes lottery, women used coathangers or a the back alley abortionist or threw themselves down the stairs to abort, women left their husbands or husbands had their women committed to insane asylums to get rid of them, and prostitution has been illegal in every society for just about all of history but still it goes on.
If you think that government ever had the power to dictate individual morality your cheese has slipped off it’s cracker.
People have to choose to live good because they think it’s better living, not because a government dictates it, and not because every temptation or avenue in which they might possibly sin has been removed.
This is true morality, righteousness comes with right choice. And right choice begins with options from which to choose. Wisdom is the knowledge of right and wrong coupled with right action.
What you’re talking about is artificial morality only made possible by government legislated removal of temptation. From where comes the blessing in making the right choice?
And where do you think the government will draw the line? When will their appetite for power be finally slaked?
God made men with free choice, He didn’t make automatons but He could have.
Choice is part of who we are and how we were made to be.
Do you want to live in a nation were the sin police run around and grab people to stone them for sinning as they do in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia? Well I don’t. Why don’t you move there?
Phillipians 2
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
If you think that government ever had the power to dictate individual morality your cheese has slipped off it’s cracker.
Gee, there go the laws against murder and theft…
And, if you want to quote scripture…
Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Lance said – “in contrast to libertarian belief, you really can’t trust all individuals to make the moral choices.”
The only explanation I can offer is that perhaps you adopted an orthodox absolutist form of Libertarianism like Ayn Rand – I have been a Libertarian all my adult life but my brand has it that everyone is free to make their own decisions unencumbered by coercion by the state – however one must take full responsibility for their decisions and accept the consequence of bad choices – like if you decide to do something which damages someone else, you are liable to the law. Being Libertarian does not mean you reject the rule of law – on the contrary, the (equitable) rule of (natural) law is the sole reason for any government we allow to exist.
You do know that Brad Wall ruled one way on whether to allow liquor licencing at peeler bars and then reversed himself, yes?
We live in a liberal democracy, our government representatives are NOT our rulers.
You’re so confused that you conflate murder with lust.
What do you think about Brad Wall taking the contract for hospital cafeterias from the Saskatchewan company which has had it for decades and giving it to a Muslim company who only hire Muslims?
What do you think about the new ISIL government that is ruling over most of Iraq/Syria/Libya? Should they be resisted?
Are they a terror only against evil and a protector of good works?
You’re so confused that you conflate murder with lust.
But not so confused so as to not conflate it with a moral.
I get the impression Saskabush’ premier don’t get out much.
Does he know what a “rub and tug is”?
…”I miss Mitsie Dupris
There you needed a beer glass for the act! “
Ah yess!! good ole Mitsie Dupres…peekin at the Beacon..! She had some rather interesting capabilities..ping pong balls come to mind..?? LOL crazy stuff but damned entertaining.
And prior to .. you had # 5 Orange Street. Well before the peelers came, it was an awesome night time bar at the base of Main n Powell (YVR for those that are unfamiliar), – spent many a Fi/Sat evening in the early 70’s there enjoying a variety “stimulating” things – draught for one @ (0.25/glass), playing Hi Speed Pong and plenty of willing young ladies! Great bar in its day – Pre AIDS – Pre Marriage. At the time, the right bar, the right crowd with an awesome sound system; 6 Bose 901’s up on the corners rocking some of the greatest bands ever…yea, I remember it WELL.!
Fast forward some 40 yrs later..
As for Brad Wall and his simple minded head that appears on this issue to be stuck up his (_i_). You sir have no right or obligation to dictate your morality to the masses…not one damn bit.
Im with Ed Minchau…A Conservative Libertarian.
Government..?? Get the hell out of my life.
From the Sands..
stk
Stk
” You sir have no right or obligation to dictate your morality to the masses..”
So, that means do away with the laws against murder and theft?