Say what you want about Preston Manning’s ideological conversions, when he starts talking about there being a problem, a lot of people would be wise to listen.
Say what you want about Preston Manning’s ideological conversions, when he starts talking about there being a problem, a lot of people would be wise to listen.
You only have to read the comments on the article to realize that there is a problem. Those people are hateful towards Alberta and conservatives in general. As an Albertan I don’t want any part of that.
*
speaking of pierre-lite…
“Trudeau then winked at the audience,
before hissing like a goose and
flapping his arms.”
*
Create a problem, then present a solution. People fall for it over and over…order out of chaos.
And I’ve never trusted Manning to be what he said he was…even back in the Reform days. He’s never done anything productive in his life. Talk, talk, talk, that’s the extent of his contribution.
The article assumes that the direction they are following does not have the intended results. They wish to put Western Canada in it’s proper place within Canada and restore the rest of Canada to it’s proper place of dominance. They feel they can control this.
The old Liberal strategy was to foment quebec separatism then loudly proclaim they were the only national party capable of restoring national unity and saving the country.
They need to be called on that early and often if that is their strategy again.
The Liberal’s core belief is that they should be the party in power.
Whatever damage they cause or how many people they use as pawns is immaterial.
There are two excellent soundbites from his presentation for those too jaded to read the G&M clip:
“What are the unity consequences going to be when the federal government is all ears to requests from Bombardier for financial aid to protect 3,000 jobs in Quebec but is stone deaf to the voices of more than 100,000 unemployed oil-field workers in Western Canada?” Mr. Manning said in a speech to the Manning Centre gathering.
“What will be the unity consequences when a supposedly national government welcomes tankers bringing in foreign oil on the east coast but wants to ban tankers on the west coast from carrying Canadian oil to world markets?” he said in remarks critical of the lack of progress on new pipeline capacity.
Manning is off his rocker on CAGW but on this he is bang-on!
Economic crisis bring problems to into focus. The country has no solution because there is no real reason for it (the country) to exist. Syphoning money from one part of the country to reward another is not a reason. Currently the country Canada exists to keep quebek in easy money and fishworld (maritimes) afloat. Delivering a standard of living they could not otherwise afford.
Manning plays into the politics of this. He thinks these inequities can be resolved through politics. They can’t. It’s the philosophy of the country that is wrong. Quebek and it’s politicians believe we westerners are not entitled to our production. They (quebek) are entitled to it. This is patently wrong.
Bongo is going to deliver more of the same and bring the west to heel. It’s what they believe. Manning is right. Under the liberals western alienation will increase and with guys like the adscammer Coderre speaking for the libs, things can only get worse.
We need wholesale change or the country will collapse under it’s own weight.
I beg to differ Lance. To many Westerner’s were taken in by Preston in the 80’s as he skillfully deflected western angst into a dead end solution to start a new federal party.
The same rabbit trail that western grevience parties had explored in the past. The Socreds, CCF and the progressives.
The last man we should listen to is the counsellor that tells the battered wife to stay in the marriage and accept the periodic beatings for the good of the family.
There is nothing “sacred” about boundaries. They were drawn up by men. The West should get out of this CONfederation!
“Progressive” conservatives like Wright are prone to ignor the base (see Alberta) and then loose elections. And like he says they don’t explain Conservative solutions on social issues. Why is this? Well it stems first from a lack of convictions. The result is a lack of sincerity and ability to defend conservative solutions.
Preston..
Didn’t he advise Daniel?
Was he the guy who said we should embrace fraud, to suck the citizens further in?
And oppose any speedy action by the CPC when they held power?
Playing with threats of western separation is very dangerous.
I do not think Preston knows this, he thinks this is an imitate Quebec moment.
There is a difference between East and West, East uses empty threats to line their pockets.West do not threaten until they are willing to act.
Just as a hysterical fool will threaten to shoot you, while waving an empty gun.
Where as solid citizen will never utter such a threat unless they have your demise and its consequences clear in their mind.
The west wants in, that was Preston’s yodel.
Well the west was in and nothing has changed, citizens are even more firmly enslaved by the state, Red or blue they still screw you.
Productivity is falling and will continue to do so.
Klepto’s will continue to ratchet up their theft and interference and then bewail the lower returns they reap.
Our dollar will tank, ever lower and the “underground” economy will explode.
Civil society will continue to collapse, you cannot have civilization when your “rulers” attack the very foundations with every act.
When theft is government and government is unlimited, you run out of marks(producers).
Welcome to another socialist parasites paradise.
NEP bumper sticker: “let eastern bast*rds freeze in the dark”.
oh. really. thanks for that sentiment. you just lost my sympathy Mr western Canuckistan.
new bumper sticker: “let western bast*rds soak in their own NDP vomit”
can I vote for Preeeeeeston Maaaaaaaaaning anywhere? no? good !!!
Didn’t he advise Daniel?
The west wants in, that was Preston’s yodel.
Yeah, Preston’s solution to ‘in’ was weaken the west. Become part of the problem…weaken the local and strengthen the central. You’d think it would be obvious by now that he’s playing for the other side.
Preston suckered folks in to the deform movement initially with a lie.
He said ” if we just get enough seats in the western provinces…we could hold the balance of power in a divided parliament”.
Not good at math I guess or no one explained to him, that Mulrony had won a majority…with out any MPs needed from the west!
Secondly, which of the other Federal parties (con,lib bloc or ndp) would forum a coalition with reform to advance the “Western Agenda for Change” ( a 10 point plan) developed after much discussion at reforms founding conventions?. THIS was a question Preston refused to answer. Again he deflected in response. I know…because I’m the one who asked him….with others listening in.
He refused to consider other viable western approaches and actions to bring about a vibrant and viable confederation.
And I don’t mean Western separation. There was and still is another path.
Interested?
“And I don’t mean Western separation. There was and still is another path.Interested?”
Please lay it out, perhaps Lance would give it its own posting?
Preston Manning:
Never done anything? Sorry but if not for Manning there would not have been a Reform Party. I was there at the beginning and talked with him a number of times. Sure enough at the beginning many were so angry with the east that the easy option was to talk separation. Manning’s status within the party was so strong that when a vote to move east was taken he carried the day with a huge majority.
I was one of those who voted no. There were significant numbers who thought that Reform should have contested provincial elections and gained that seat at the federal table just as Quebec did. A Western Canada represented by one Party organized at the Federal and Provincial level (eventually at the municipal) could not have been ignored and the issues faced by the country could have been debated. AB, BC could easily have elected provincial Reform parties and as seen in SASK they would have joined.
When we elected our first Reform MP we were organized to the poll level. There were regular Town Hall meetings that grounded membership in a process for creating policy. Since the PC/Alliance merger all this has disappeared. The CPC is top down just as the PC’s were so many years ago. It is a easy process to turn over governance to those who are in a position to take it. Grassroots can be messy at times but it should be celebrated rather than hid the way the CPC has done. Today’s governments operate without accountability and citizen responsibility eliminated.
I have seen absolutely no attempt by the CPC to re-establish grass roots input. If that means starting over with a new Reform Party it will be tough but possibly the only option. At some point westerners will have to realize that if they do not demand their position within Canada they will never get it. The economic case for Canadian unity dwindles every year. As I always said there has to be a lot of growing up to be done in the West.
If I was looking for sympathy I would dig out the dictionary… not look to you.
Bingo CT. With one caveat.
The first convention was to be an airing of all opinions regarding actions to address western alienation.
However Preston himself wrote to those voices advocating separation, informing them they were not welcome.
Ted Byfield once wrote…”until they think we might get out, they will not do anything to keep us in”!
Preston,being a control freak, knew he would loose control if starting new reform provincial parties led to him sharing the stage with other Reform Western premiers.
Yet that strategy was the most logical given the movements early focus (8 of 10 WAfC points that delt with constitutional change).
It is premiers that sit at the table in negotiations regarding amendments to the governing structure of the country. Not opposition leaders. So you see Preston manipulated the discussion but deflected action away from real solutions.
If we had 3 or 4 Reform premiers in western Canada saying “give us what we want …or we will get out”….that would be the “hammer” (Prestons word). Preston wanted to avoid any of that. He sold the west a bill of goods.
This my friends was his response when pressed to explain the validity of his plan of starting a new Federal party. “We want to elect enough MPs to go to Ottawa (I presume cap in hand) and say…this is what the west wants. And if you don’t address our concerns …we will be replaced”.
In other words a more radical movement (separatist) could emerge.
I wonder now if that might happen before Justin appoints those 22 vacant senate seats that Harper didn’t,t fill?? Wasn’t Wright advising him on some good choices?
He sold the west a bill of goods.
Yup, took control, then neutered it. The successors couldn’t even get one pipeline built.
Harper was going to wear the Senate debacle regardless of whether he kept appointing Senators or not. Pleasing the Liberals does not make them vote for you. If Harper would have done his job and filled the Senate, Conservatives could have prevented some of the stupider things that Trudeau has proposed.
I agree scar, re the Senate and Harper. The only thing I can think of why he did not load it up was that he lost the election, and had no mandate to do so. While Harper might not have done all the things I would have liked to have seen done, I think he was principled and governed as such.
As for Preston Manning, he knows he his lying about AGW when he promotes it. Whatever he once was he sold his sould and is now a full blown progressive.
Let him bleat about whatever he wants. Its all just theatre.
Must conclude that Canada is failed experiment
cal2 >
“Must conclude that Canada is failed experiment”
Absolutely!
Time for separation, Canada could easily become 5 or 6 different Nations now.
When Manning lost the leadership of the Aliance to Stockwell Day, he refused to endorse him even though the people did. So much for his “grassroots” movement. His arrogance has always been on display. Won’t listen to a thing he says even if he does say the right thing sometimes. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Strad, let’s not repeat Liberal talking points here, eh?
http://globalnews.ca/news/2511598/have-no-new-pipelines-been-built-since-2011-it-depends-who-you-ask/
Preston..
Didn’t he advise Daniel?
He apparently did. But when you consider that Alberta doesn’t have enough actual conservatives for one good party, let alone two, in hindsight he was right. Alberta will be NDP forever unless the other 60% of the province unites under some banner that distinguishes them. BC is more conservative under their “Liberal” banner than Alberta was under the Progressive Cons. Nationally it’s much worse, but due to the LPC and NDP (60% of the population) doing federally what the PCs and WRP did to each other provincially, Conservatives only get a periodic shot at governance. Harper was it for the foreseeable future.
There was one upside of “The West wants in”. For some of us who considered ourselves “separatists” (I think Independents is a better term) before Mr. Manning came along, there was this nagging doubt about the finality of what we were thinking about – had we overlooked something? Mr. Manning’s and Mr. Harper’s time together have removed all doubt – no one could believe that either wanted Independence and so there was never the “or else” threat to the easterners. Their policies were always based upon “this is the right thing to do” rather than threats.
The West would like in and would like to be treated equally. The remainder of Canada has responded: we want you in under the terms of the 1970’s and 1980’s where we dominate and you pay. If you want to have an equal say, the answer is never. We do not necessarily want you to leave, but we will never treat you equally. What are you going to do about it?
The few doubts that I had going back to the mid-1980’s regarding Independence have been answered. There is no downside.
As Kate likes to say: Go already !
It’s not like you believe the Rest of Canada is ever going to change. But, just like the PQ, Alberta isn’t going anywhere. They just elected the NDP. They want bailouts just like Bombardier. Crystal clear signs that independence and self reliance have been beaten out of Alberta.
Liberals are alienating the West. I believe the plan is to handicap Alberta so they can never again function as a powerful base. That would be why the pipeline is stalled. It will not be approved. I would even go so far as to suggest that handicapping a strong conservative voice was why the globalist Obama blocked the Keystone. There is a plan for trans-National international socialism spearheaded by the UN. Junior is onside. So is Obama. A strong Alberta is an obstruction.
yah, you could be head of an independent Newfberta navy. You westerners are, and always will be whine sacks. Kriste, when I was in Edmunchuck in the early 80T’s doing a job, I heard the same whining shit as I hear in here. Most of them whiners were 20something, have you fools not grown up yet?
It’s the same problem. They have every right to whine. And yet, that whining is much worse in Quebec.
I agree. The sooner the better. Enough milking of the western cow. LindaL is right.
During the 90s I thought, maybe, with first, Preston and steady growth of Reform; then with Harper, good minority governments, then finally a majority which would break the strangle hold of the Laurentian Elite’s control of the Maritime and western colonies. It was not to be, and the Laurentian Elite exerted its control through the media and the hair appeal of an empty dufus. The Liberals will make darn sure no western power base rises again. We are now finished with the attempt for an equal seat at Confederation, so screw all of them. I won’t be soon taken again by some Laurentian Elite progressive posing as a conservative.
No pipes to tidewater, which was the point. Still a captive seller…apparently only world price when we buy it retail.
Strikes me far too many read meaning into the NDP’s accidental rise to power.
The only effect Notley will have is to demonstrate the inherent corruption of the Progressive Conservatives, The NDP are bad,ideologues and thieves but really they are not much different than what Prentice was promising.
And what Alison was doing.
Albertans turned on the PC’s, the Wild Rose got betrayed by their “leadership”, the NDP won as the voters tried to make sense of the fools versus bandit split.
That will not happen again.
Once the conservatives reassert themselves and oust the progressives, the NDP may not survive their allotted 4 years.
No “Go Already”, that prospect will get talked about first.
A properly planned separation will hive off far more area than just Alberta.
The centralist option will get fully assessed in light of its failure.
Canada is a grand concept, however it is reasonable to consider your place in it, when you cannot develop your own region due to an obligation to supply welfare to regions that will not help themselves.
Who actually brag about their ability to freeload on the parts of Canada that do work.
This is the difference between progressives and normal people, one threatens without conviction.
The other acts with conviction.
Really the only thing that may save Canada,confederation, are Liberal Members of Parliament revolting.
And the odds of that are near zero, cause they are…Liberals.
Essentially, the last few years have demonstrated that the idea of “Canada” held by easterners is a throwback to the mercantilism of 17th century France with the west being the “colony” to be mined for wealth by Quebec and Ontario and Atlantic Canada along for the ride. Particularly with the existing transfer payment system there is simply no further economic reason for the west, Alberta in particular, to remain attached to an eastern entity which ignores it in times of shortage and sabotages it or siphons off its wealth in times of plenty. We’d be better off, or at least no worse off, as an independent nation or as the 51st state. Put together a credible independence party for Alberta, or better yet, western Canada overall, and it would have my full support.
DRD has nailed it in his comment! The only time the West is included in progress, is when a right wing party is in office! It is a shame that the greatest country on earth is being run by the worst government I”ve seen! With a touch of sadness I would agree that Western Independence should be started!
The old Canada is back ! Sunny ways . This will be forgotten. He is well on his way to becoming the drama teacher who destroyed Canada .
john Robertson >
“Strikes me far too many read meaning into the NDP’s accidental rise to power”
Heh, exactly. Even the hard core leftist rags have recognized the writings already on the wall for the NDP.
I like letting the East Wing blowhards go, it make it much more fun when you dredge their comments out of the archives later on. Oh and I will…..Cheers
http://www.torontosun.com/2016/02/27/uniting-albertas-right-one-hug-at-a-time
Keith that’s not quite accurate unless you are acknowledging that the Mulrony P c’s …we’re really not a right wing party.
I am so sick of these eastern Bastards and their hatred of the west – it is way past time to get out of this mess we call canada. I do wonder why those from Ontario don’t have a referendum on separation if their hatred runs as deep as they claim.
Referendum anyone? C’mon. Give it a shot!