A tax by any other name.

You Might Be A Liberal 46 Comments

But, Lorrie, if they raised the GST it would rightfully be seen for what it is.

An example of revenue neutral carbon pricing would be to raise the GST or HST, essentially a broad-based tax on consumption which is what a carbon tax is, and then return all the extra money in income tax cuts, and grants to the poor who do not earn enough to pay taxes.

46 Replies to “A tax by any other name.”

  1. The idea of a “revenue neutral” tax is a ridiculous concept. First of all, it fails the test of logic: why go through the bullshit for nothing. Secondly, it fails the test of credibility: a greater administration has to be created to process it, so on those grounds alone, it can never be revenue neutral. Too bad our ever-diligent press won’t ask those kind of questions to the proponents of carbon taxing.
    The last time I heard “revenue neutral” was when McGuinty The Liar brought in the GST here in Ontario. Every Liberal bag-licker I met was preaching the RN line. We all know how “revenue neutral” that turned out to be.

  2. There is a real war by governments on the wealthy today. Success is rewarded by accusations of corruption and higher taxes. Whenever there are tax cuts and the wealthy receive a benefit from that, the cbc et al begin the campaign of how it hurts the poor and blah blah blah.
    Notley introduced her carbon tax. You pay according to your income.
    If you had the resources to build an energy efficient home using solar, geothermal, wind, your carbon footprint should theoretically be less. One would think you would get a tax rebate for such responsible life choices. But no, in Alberta, you would pay higher tax because because you make more money. Has nothing to do with carbon. Has to do with wealth transfer. And thus the Marxist/socialist agenda unfolds.

  3. The best and brightest Canadians have already left this once great nation. Now the socialist rat-termites are just eating through what is left. Wealth creation, innovation, invention, freedom of speech are now just romantic notions.
    Allah Ackbar.

  4. I’ve said here before and I’ll say it again “The only revenue neutral tax is NO tax. PERIOD”.
    The clowns in goofernment are elected to look after the affairs of the country, not the affairs of mine or any one else’s life. They do not have a revenue problem, they have a spending problem. We desperately need a 20% consumption tax and eliminate all others. Won’t work because someone will find a way to be offended by the simplicity. Leaving Canada is not an option as many of us are tethered by health care and pensions, we older retired Canadians who depend on the system such as it is and don’t have the means for private care elsewhere.
    The idea that we can tax an element created by God that can neither be created nor destroyed, that is the building block of all life. All this to fix climate change, a problem that doesn’t exist. Transfer of wealth or a creative way to tax an already struggling populace? Damn right it is!!!!!

  6. Carbon Tax will take care of your poor, and reduce your income taxes.
    BAHAHAHA…. wiping away tears.. lol..
    No one can tell a great joke like a Canadian politician..

  7. However it is amazing how many people will swallow that socialist utopian lie. Just think and look at how we, the people, elected the likes of McGuinty, Wynne, Notley, and Trudeau. Just like in the Soviet Union, all will be poor except those that are more equal than the masses.

  8. My parents are in their 80s, only income is from CPP, no company pension, small savings.
    Their hydro has almost doubled the last few years, so they applied for Ontario’s energy rebate, and were told they make too much money.
    So, much like when the left wants to “tax the rich”, then constantly redefine both the words “tax” and “rich”, if this goes through, we’ll see a redefinition of “poor” to match Ontario screwing seniors (even though they will use my parents as poster “children” for Ontario’s go-alone pension…)

  9. Jaimie McMaster
    The reason they do it is to give themselves a raise if you get my drift ….create a program to legally take more from the tax payer skim a little off the top for themselves then “redistribute” the rest to the poor n needy there by creating more voters for themselves!!!

  10. So true ! And another redefinition is that anyone with the self-control and discipline to actually SAVE and INVEST their income for retirement … are now “the rich” … regardless of how small that savings may be. How DARE these investors evade taxes by putting money into an IRA ! Tax loophole ! Tax loophole ! These investors didn’t pay “their fare share” (deliberately misspelled). How DARE these investors act independently and try to supplement their government stipend ! What ? Do they think they are “better” than the masses ? Elitist ! Elitist ! These investors need to acknowledge their “investor privelge” ! They obviously made so much money that they were able to save some! We have never been able to save any of our minimum wages, like all you “rich”, “privileged” investors. Acknowledge your “privelge” !! The masses need to DEMAND an end to the tax loophole for I-RA’s. There is NO “I” in “government !! There is no “I” in State ! There is no “I” in Dear Leader !

  11. I saw a really appropriate poster the other day: “The sheep will always vote for the person who feeds it, even if that person will slaughter it later on.”

  12. Consumption tax is the only real “fair” tax if any tax can be considered fair.
    That way the rich pay their fair share and the poor pay their fair share. And its the only tax the taxpayer can control.
    Disposable income increases, investment increases, economic growth increases. What a novel idea. Can’t be havin that now, can we.

  13. Okay all you conservatives…how exactly do you wean people off benefits, who believe they’re entitled to them? What happens when (yes “when” not “if”) they become violent? Are you expecting the cops, who are also part of the entitled clan to protect you from them? (I define “them” as welfare recipients, teachers, public service workers, civil servants, cops, military). Or do you think the cops will become another tax-collection agency for the government? (From speeding tickets to forcing themselves into your home and taking everything of worth with a legally sanctioned search warrant).
    Do you believe that a politician who promises to cut the bureaucracy, to cut benefits to welfare recipients, to cut the pay of all civil servants (which includes teachers, nurses, doctors, police officers, garbage men, judges, etc) would actually be voted into power?
    How about the politician who promises to change the universal medical plan to only cover life-saving procedures. Just plain we’ll stop the bleeding and get you stabilized and/or we’ll cut out the damaged organ and stitch you back up; no more treatment for cancer, no more treatment for autistic kids, no more sex changes, no more drug rehab, no more psychological treatment. Would you vote for such a politician?
    The “Utopia” conservatives believe in, is where they think logic and math will magically make the beneficiaries of the benefits give it all up.

  14. Consumption tax is the only real “fair” tax if any tax can be considered fair.
    Taxation should be voluntary, not coersive. That’s the only fair tax.
    Why should I have to pay for useless schemes like the F-35 Witwenmacher or the CBC, or EI or CPP or socialized medicine or public schooling?

  15. Okay, you leftist loon … careful what you threaten … or you will get the Zimbabwe you yearn-for. Or in the best-case … Venezuela. Where do you believe the revenue will come from to pay your comrades their “entitlements” ? Ohhhh yeahhh … your Dear Leader will just print more … after they have blown thru all the seized wealth. Yeah, good luck getting your “autistic” kid treated by a Dr. being paid in government IOU’s.

  16. Carbon tax, in reality an energy tax, is just one more tool of the anti-industrial revolution as when you tax energy, you tax enterprise, production and consumption and you then get less of all three in the process. Just another cobblestone on the road to serfdom. Thanks again to all the intellectual misfits who voted for the Spawn, Notley, Wynne, etc.

  17. Perhaps we can now dispense with the idea that Lorrie Goldstein is a “journalist” who does not believe in “climate change”
    At best Lorrie is just another hack who cannot do any simple research himself, or he would not be writing columns on the fine tuning of Carbon taxes – instead doing the yoemans work of fighting the progressive media driven climate propaganda.
    At worst he is like Preston Manning – someone who knows perfectly well this is all a fraud, but realizes its easier to align himself with the future ruling class who will control carbon – and as such humanity.
    Whichever it is its just more propaganda.

  18. Tax Canadian middle and working class so Winnipeg stay as cold as it is in winter time, export carbon oxides emission , shift capital and create employment in China , then Chinese billionaires bring the money back buying properties in Vancouver. It is all ‘like’ revenue neutral.

  19. In brain dead Ontario it’s wind mills, solar panels, subsidies for those who can afford electric cars, bike lanes for year round biking in traffic then taxing us to death for using hydro power and water and sewer.
    It’s also sickening to realize as McCallum and his gang of inexperienced MP’s are bringing in “refugees’ giving them permanent resident status, and directing them to food banks so many of our own people are forced to use because of high cost of living, and were using before these people were brought in. McCallum and crew then appeal to all and sundry to help them do the job they failed to do before they opened the gates. Who pays? We all pay one way or another, not exactly the land of milk and honey as we continue on with ultra stupidity across the board.

  20. carbon tax.
    For carbon based lifeforms this is a tax on everything.
    Kleptocracy depends on these thefts.
    We will pay more and more until we thin the parasitic load.
    Ask yourself, what does government do well?
    What does government do at all?
    Why is so much incompetence seen as good enough for government?
    What political group will stand for the productive members of our society?
    Are we willing to become cat herders to take control of our lives again?
    Or do we wait until we individually snap before acting.?
    The bureaucratic buffoons are way too big for their britches,having an exaggerated opinion of their own importance.
    Bottom line nobody outside their bureaus needs them,wants them nor can stand them.
    Their “help” is grinding everyday commerce to a standstill..which they acknowledge as..SUCCESS.
    The true cost of “Government” is reflected in our diminishing incomes and ever increasing debt.
    Kleptocracy Rules.

  21. I’m the farthest thing from a Leftist loon. I’m the exact opposite. I’m a realist. I’m posing the questions to you folks now in order to open your eyes. In the US, state police are used to search cars and confiscate any large amounts of money found in it, if they believe that it was gained illegally.
    http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/21/us/asset-seizures/
    In the US, back in the 1930’s FDR seized gold from citizens. In Cyprus, people woke up one day and saw up to 50% of their saving accounts taken (all done legally through government diktat). In Canada, the RCMP broke into homes, which were locked and seized firearms while the occupants were absent because of a flood in High River, AB–and they were accompanied by armed military personnel in armoured fighting vehicles.
    I’m asking you cuckservatives what you will do WTSHTF and government cannot borrow any more money. You guys complain a lot but you don’t really do much.

  22. “….they were accompanied by armed military personnel in armoured fighting vehicles.”
    Actually, they used inflatable boats to aid the RCMP in getting around & they were not armed. As soon as the RCMP kicked in the first doors, they packed up their gear & left the RCMP to do their dirty crap…because they wanted no part or association with it.

  23. Are you sure?
    “RCMP broke into homes, which were locked and seized firearms while the occupants were absent because of a flood in High River, AB–and they were accompanied by armed military personnel in armoured fighting vehicle”.
    My understanding was that the military backed away from this behaviour by the Goon Squads.
    Leaving the RCMP fully exposed as liars and law breakers.
    As for doing much..When your enemies are suiciding, why interrupt them?
    There is a fine Venn Diagram of the actual interaction between Populace,media and politicians.
    Says it all.
    They need us,our elected and appointed parasites.
    We need them,not at all.
    Civil society is a mighty convenient luxury , not a tribal necessity.
    Government has become so parasitic that any symbiotic relationships that might have existed, between parasite and host are long gone.
    As for the RCMP, yes they “Serve and Protect”,they just quietly fail to mention that taxpayers are not their main client base.Every kleptocracy requires an armed extortion wing.

  24. Basically everyone is missing the point. There is NOTHING wrong with the Climate!
    Always has, always will.
    This is simply a TAX.

  25. Yes lance it is simply a tax- but that is only the beginning. Next will be rationing.

  28. “So, much like when the left wants to “tax the rich”, then constantly redefine both the words “tax” and “rich”,…”.
    Much like the Bolsheviks did in Russia in the 1920s. First the upper middle class land owners with many agricultural workers were Kulaks, then the qualifier was ratcheted down to include middle class peasant farmers that had occasionally hired seeding and harvest workers from local villages. Then, it was peasant farmers that had more than two horses and two cows, and finally any peasant farmer that disagreed with turning over all his assets except his house to the local collective. The committee that determined who was a Kulak was chosen from the poorest among the villagers and chaired by a local communist party member. At no time the Kulak was not given a vote in his defense and anyone who spoke up in defense of the accused was himself put under suspicion.
    Lorrie Goldstein has always written from a non-AGW aka climate change position. Has he now turned his coat or is he trying to mitigate the the disasterous results of the inevitable carbon tax. It is bad enough that Ontario PC leader Brown and some federal Conservatives have also swallowed the AGW bullsheet.

  29. Consumption tax is the only real “fair” tax if any tax can be considered fair.
    Eliminate income tax and only tax consumption. Negligible tax on basics like raw food, increasingly higher taxes on items considered luxuries like power boats.
    A fair, honest and effective CarbonTax would set the tax rate for any product based on the percent of global GHGs emitted by the country where the product was made. For example, products from China would be taxed at 29%, made in USofA: 15%, India/Bangladesh: 6%. Those countries are responsible for half the human-caused GHG emissions on earth. Their governments set the policies that let polluters in that country profit.
    Canada produces about 2% of the global GHGs, so products made in Canada would be taxed at that rate. Consumers should actually pay for their share of the global pollution caused by their demand for more cheap ‘stuff’. Products from countries that don’t pollute the planet would have a market advantage over products from countries that cause the most harm to the earth.
    Any fuel tax imposed across-the-board is nothing more than another blatant increase in the GST, regardless of how they choose to label it for consumer consumption.

  30. I have said this many times. we are carbon based organisms living on a carbon based planet, any attempt to eliminate the forms of carbon will kill us. if eliminating the carbon does not, then the freaking taxes will. Canadians are become dumber by the hour.

  31. “Basically everyone is missing the point.”
    Then, your crypticism might stand for a bit of criticism. 😉

  33. any attempt to eliminate the forms of carbon will kill us
    that makes no sense. Besides radical extremists, who is attempting to “eliminate the forms of carbon”?

  34. Not content with taxing the wealthy, now statists want to attack wealth, not just that of the rich, who are too nimble and mobile to pin down. Middle class jobbers is a different story. Just heard an idiot blaming tax cuts for larger deficits. Sure Chretien had high taxes, deficits and an impending debt wall.
    These fools will never understand, nor do they want to, that raising tax rates by 10% never nets 10% more revenue, while a 10% tax cut never causes a drop of 10% in revenues. This is too complicated for the statist simpletons.
    But if the rich win, even if the poor don’t their narrative says no. As Thatcher famously said they would rather the poor were poorer provided the rich were less rich (except the statists of course).

  35. They can call it whatever they want.
    It is, and always will be, a SIN TAX introduced by the delusional left.

  36. Jean, no matter how you try to explain its benefits, any type of tax on carbon (CO2) because it is carbon is a gigantic fraud conceived by that monster Maurice Strong sixty some years ago.
    I find it difficult how someone who generally posts as a conservative has fallen for this fraud.

  39. Of course it’s a scam, that’s obvious.
    Don’t misunderstand my comment about a FAIR carbonTax vs. the blatantly hypocritical tax-grab the govt is foisting on us as a guilt-tax. I am NOT endorsing carbonTaxes, merely stating that if it truly was a carbonTax as they claim, then it would be structured to penalize the greatest global emitters not Canadian oil.
    Most of the toxic pollution in the world is caused by Asian industries cranking out cheap consumer goods with no regard for the environment or human health. They don’t care if they poison their people, they’ve got a population surplus to waste.
    Our perspective on life is different in under-crowded Canada.
    If we truly wanted to reduce global pollution we would tax imported goods from countries where most of the pollution is created. That should be obvious to an educated person.

  40. CO2 is not a pollutant – I don’t know why you insist on using “pollutant” to describe a harmless gas.

  41. Pay attention, I’m referring to toxic pollution from burning filthy coal, NOT CO2.
    CO2 is plant food.

  42. Burning filthy coal in Asia with no stack scrubbing contributes most of the toxic air pollution that drifts over Canada and poisons our water and land, and about 50% of the global GHGs which some believe causes the climate to change.
    Making cheap disposable consumer junk in Asia is causing most of the toxic pollution, global GHGs, and filling our garbage dumps. The amount of Canadian oil we burn to heat our buildings and fuel our vehicles is insignificant by comparison with the amount of pollution caused by the junk we buy that’s made in Asia. Canadian petroleum is at least ten times cleaner per energy unit delivered, than coal burned in Asia.
    None of the so-called political leaders have the integrity to say “If you want to stop greenhouse gas emissions and toxic pollution, stop buying cheap cr@p from China until they clean up their act.” That’s the Asian Elephant in the room everyone is trying so hard to ignore.
    The NDP&LIB refuse to acknowledge these facts and instead want to penalize the Canadian economy with carbon taxes, and erect more wind turbines and solar panels made by polluting factories in China.

  44. I have no doupt that the demacrats are not above sending in the BATFE into homes to confiscate all privately owned firearms Hillary want america to copy australia’s big mistake thats why many amiercans(Like in the states of New York and Conneticutt)have refused to register their firearms Our politicians need to disarm instead

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