So, we have a paradox. Considered both historically and in terms of its contemporary manifestations, Islam would appear to be the least liberal of religions. Nor is it easy to see why any devout Muslim would want to accommodate his religion to liberalism — especially when he sees how liberals have come to treat Christianity after having tamed it. Yet liberals by and large seem to think such an accommodation is not only possible but highly likely. Why? Is there something in Islam that liberals have seen that others have not? Or are liberal hopes delusional?
Grab a coffee.
“Why? Is there something in Islam that liberals have seen that others have not? Or are liberal hopes delusional?”
Such questions can only be asked by one who has mistaken Liberals(Communists really) for being as even handed as they claim/pretend to be.
All pretentions aside, Islam is only currently being used as a cat’s-paw by the totalitarians to subvert western society and bring it all under the tender mercies of One World Government after which it too will be, according to their plans, cast upon the rubbish heap of history which will be rewritten to exclude all fidelities, including family, other than loyal vassalage to the Global State.
Islam- Religion of Peace.
First Commandment- If you do not become a member- We Will Kill You.
Second Commandment- If you ever try to leave or speak against our religion,
See Commandment Number One..
By coincidence, here’s an excerpt from a response I just posted to the Maggie’s Farm blog:
“The media can’t really handle the notion that if a Pope criticizes some aspect of capitalism it doesn’t automatically make him ‘socialist’ or ‘left-leaning’ or if he makes some observation on gays it doesn’t mean he’s a lo-fat-latte-sipping ‘liberal’. The idea that someone might have a theological basis for their perspective on some issue rather than a purely political one seems beyond secularist thinking.
But notice that the media is at the same time entirely incurious about Islam, its leadership, its doctrines and its internal divisions. Yet the current ideological challenge to the self-absorbed notion of a secular, liberal west comes not from Christianity (Catholic or otherwise) but from Islam.”
I couldn’t get past the first few paragraphs. It appeared to me he was embarking on a fool’s mission.
There are 100’s of sects of differing Christian beliefs, then you can further break that down into millions of personal interpretations of the bible. We have all witnessed on this very site how some Christians have little or no respect for differing forms of Christianity other than their own, Christians ARE NOT one large self-identified homogeneous group. Then there are 1,000,000’s of differing Atheist’s beliefs simply because, unlike churches, there is NO organized indoctrination system. Trying to say ALL Atheists think exactly the same way is as ignorantly stupid as saying everyone who denies the existence of flying saucers are all the exact same. Of course it’s all a friggin’ paradox because you CANNOT pigeon-hole such diversity as this!(despite the best attempts of hardcore partisans everywhere)
There are plenty of Atheist Conservatives.
There are plenty of Liberal Christians.
There are gay Conservatives.
There are left-leaning gun enthusiasts.
There are Cons fully supportive of PC’ness(just look at the CPC and GOP)
There are leftists fully aware of the dangers of Islam.
And Islam? With all the terror and suffering that this religion is still inspiring in the 21st century, it is a living and breathing example of the evilness that blind faith can still be manipulated to achieve. There must be 100’s of sub-groups of that polluted belief-system in action today, just look at that immoral hellhole called the Middle East. The left MUST be accused of the same ignorant and naive blind faith as Islam’s hardcore followers to be able to ignore the hatred it nurtures.
But then, if this is indeed a western showdown between Christianity and Islam, then how come the Pope and multiple western Christian churches are blindly at the head of enabling this Islamic invasion? The only muslim “refugees” in our area are here strictly because a local Christian church sponsored them. Also, Bill Maher, a hard-core leftist I’m sure many here love to hate, for YEARS has done more to alert the American public to the very real evils of Islam than ANY Republican has ever done, at least prior to Trump.
Speaking of paradoxes, there’s a coupla Inconvenient Truths for ya!
Liberalism perverted to secularism, perverted to progressivism
Islam perverted to Islamism, perverted to Islamist jihad
Mainstream opinion perverted to extremism perverted to PC
Reality perverted to racism perverted to false narratives
Security perverted to fear perverted to warfare
Expecting a socially conservative society to assimilate to secular progressivism is a fantasy and opens the door to discontent, hatemongering and violent reaction. There’s your root cause. Anarchic elements in malignant neo-liberalism and Islamism are their only bond; progressives have formed their false narrative that “genuine” Islam values are compatible with secular society. It’s neither genuine nor is it reality.
One can have conservative views of Western society, indeed strongly protest her decadence and refuse to participate, but that is miles away from taking up arms in an asymmetric military campaign against civilized society. The only reconciliation allowable for progressivism is cultural Marxism, aka PC.
It’s better for militant jihadists to invade than reality for them.
One or two multi-casualty attacks are acceptable because to move the dial onto terrorism spells the neo-liberals doom, and they know it.
This is actually very good; he comments, “The inclusion within the sacred of what Westerners regard as the secular is therefore not the ‘fundamentalist’ Islamic position, but simply the Islamic position full stop.” This is what unifies the Islamic world (pace, Canadian Observer), and distinguishes it from the thousands of Christian sects.
you ask what liberals see in islam?
They see strength!
Christianity is totally different in that the weak are the strong, jesus was not covered in gold and pomp…he was just a guy with the ability to destroy or create what ever he felt like but he humbly went to the cross for our sake.
liberals see that as weakness they dont see christianity as strong they see it as weak. Becasue we dont givie into the sinful nature of our desires to have power and blood lust the bible clearly states this the meak will inherit the earth…mathew 5:3
If Christianity had never cometo be …women, children ,handicapped would be unbelievably exploited,tortured,raped…preyed upon,and general guinea pigs for anything.
if you disagree tell me how the world would look if everything every single thing was legal.
Liberals are tribal in thought they see stregnth through dominance not submission. but by nature liberals are very weak themselves its why they are like pilot fish to islamic sharks.
The biggest problem in the world today is fúcking muslimes. They don’t want to integrate, they want to conquer and convert the world to their barbaric beliefs. The ‘last straw’ for many Britons was the roving bands of muslime youth committing crimes and raping white girls, and justifying it because their barbaric religion says it’s OK to abuse and disrespect non-believers. A zero tolerance policy for immigrants is required. Commit one crime any they’re deported, no excuses, no exceptions. Enough is enough.
“if you disagree tell me how the world would look if everything every single thing was legal.”
Paul, you seem to think that NO morality exists outside of your Christian faith. Please tell me you don’t really believe something so myopic AND arrogant AND foolish as that. Next, maybe you can point out ANY mentally coherent adult anywhere who thinks EVERYTHING should be legal. They simply don’t exist which has nothing at all to do with the existence, or not, of Christianity.
As per why the left supports Islam, I don’t see any evidence to support your claim of them following strength. I believe the left supports Islam for the very simple reason that they hold many of their positions…. because the right reviles Islam. Having watched leftist parties for decades now, they have a fairly consistent record of adopting the furthest position they can find from the conservative one. I don’t believe their self-appointed role in “protecting” Islam from “the right” is much more complicated than that.
BTW, I believe it is inevitable that the leftist worlds of gay rights, feminazism, minority suckholing and Islam will eventually collapse into a violent and bloody hate-fest.
I was not implying that Christians are the only moral being at all in fact …Christians rape, murder,steal, lie cheat…..yes Canadian observer Christians sin too!!! you got your feelings hurt if i triggered you to bad.
The fact remains that Christianity has shaped the moral world you live in.
That does not in anyway mean that Christians are sinless, or that unbelievers are completely immoral retards. That has nothing to do with the point i am trying to make. At all.
The point i am making is that all i here from people is that we are sooooo good and kind and loving we are born pure and clean and perfect and that we are all inherently good….the bible tells the exact opposite we are cheaters,liars,theives,murderers,rapists,ect ect…we are not good the reason we got given the law gods law…after the fall sin entered the world Islam was not even invented yet..but rape , murder,slavery,mob rule,paganism sacrifices,bloodshed , pedophilia all were rampant….ya know sodom and gamora stuff…but you and others like you beleive we are good we are not good i was simply highlighting the fallacy of this we are born good and people are good and moral beings by making everything legal see how “good” people really are. god had to create these laws for us (as Christians) to follow.it was when other nations and people saw the peace and the civility that this brought they started to adopt it…like Constantine did and rome flourished yes war,blood shed were part of that but that was not done in the name of christ it was done in spite of the christian teachings. So go ahead and beleive you are a good person cuz you dont steal or commit murder or rape but you base your morality on the society around you a Judea christian founded society. our laws,our hospitals,our entire culture in the west is founded in the church deny it if you want but pagans were not ever moral people they were savages praying to false idols….just like muslims and others today …and the beat goes on.
And remember this. Matthew 24:9
The hatred of Christians will only grow.
… and Catholic Charities are providing room and board for illegal immigrant “anchor” children flooding across our southern border. They do it for two reasons … 1) Money. The Federal government is paying them a fortune to house and feed these illegal border jumpers, 2) Empty pews. ALL Christian churches are shrinking in our ego-centric worry-free culture. Latino’s are the exception … they continue to fill the pews of Catholic Churches. This is the primary reason a Socialist South American Priest was chosen to be Pope. Nothing more than pandering to Latino Catholics.
Paul, you are so correct in your theology re: man’s sinful nature. It makes me absolutely cringe when I hear secular humanist Libs say things like … “Children never lie” (a popular phrase used during the daycare molestation witch hunt in the 90’s) as if children are perfect little vessels of humanity. Perfect … of course until their parents ruin them by “playing negative tapes in their heads”, as espoused by Scientology. When in reality we were born as needy, greedy, self-centered little brats. No I do not “hate” children, but ianyone thinking logically, and biologically would agree that children are born with a STRONG instinct for self preservation and survival. Anyone who has spent any time in a Kindergarten cannot deny what anti-social, greedy, needy, brats kids can be … grabbing other kids toys, balls, and even lunch. Unfortunately that biological instinct is played-out in our care free society as anti-social behaviors. Yes, we are ALL programmed to be greedy, needy, little twits. Which is likely why Christ taught us not to worry, and to consider the Lily’s of the field and sparrows in the sky, who are well taken-care of by God. We have to be deprogrammed from our biological urges, and taught to trust in God … that he/she/it will provide for us. Does that mean sit on our ass and wait for the government (Libs replacement for God) to feed us ? Of course not, we are (mostly) all equipped by God for success, and only need listen to God’s quiet words and guidance (call it prayer). The most deadly illusion of our modern, technological, powerful society is that we no longer need God. That WE are the creator of ourselves. Oh, my how hard a lesson is coming for our arrogant society. I pray that everyone listens to those quiet, soothing thoughts that God continues to provide for each one of creations. Be ready, for the thief in the night … coming to take it all away.
We are his hands and feet kenji. my point isthat outside of Christendom show me a country that has total strangers donate time and money and effort to wipe the ass ofa handicapped person out of service to god. Christians are taught not to judge , to love , to show compassion yes even to our enemies as they slit the throats of our brothers and sisters …if you truly beleive then you know the Christians that are martyred are with the father the unbelievers and the false idol worshipers condemn themselves not because god hates them or wants to send them to hell but because they reject him …so he rejects them in death.
These mere words i speak trigger people it upsets people. why? if i am soo wrong who cares what i say. better yet if what i say is silly why the urge to silence if no one is listening to my silliness? its why muslims , atheists (not all) and the other unbelievers have such contempt for christ and Christians. everything god blesses the devil curses!!! darkness and light my friends …darkness and light.
By the way i am a Lutheran…if you know history you know how Catholics treated Lutherans. So much wrong in Catholicism.
“…muslims , atheists (not all) and the other unbelievers have such contempt for christ and Christians.”
Ever met a Muslim who has contempt for Jesus Christ – peace be upon him?
Rizwan …i have and they despise Jesus …almost as much as they hate the jews.
They call him a prophet of mohammad…lol
Here for those who may be confused Jesus was the first and only sacrificial lamb.
read matthew 24:4-14
mohammad, islam, mormonism, hindhuism,buhddism….all false fake idols built by men.
Any ‘Muslim’ who despises Jesus Christ ceases to be a Muslim and has earned eternal damnation.
Any unrepentant sinner who does not accept jesus as their savior will earn eternal damnation .
There i fixed it for ya!
but asan aside if this is true tell me why muslims love jesus but cut the heads off of his people since mohammad invented islam.
Shamrock, Paul, and Kenji, great points.
Liberal hopes for an accommodation with Islam are delusional. They both have a common goal and that being the destruction of Christianity. If they are successful in their mutual quest, liberals will discover that kumbaya and parkas will not be enough to stop Militant Islam subjugating them.
Ken(Kulak) – Truer words were never spoken! Paul in calgary – if you knew your history, you would know how Martin Luther and his followers hurt Catholics (and Jews)! So much wrong in Lutheranism, and the Henrican horror, but then they are all better than atheism, and certainly Muslim.
From the moment I learned that Martin Luther was known for tipping his fair share of Octoberfest brew … I decided to be baptized as Lutheran.
“By the way i am a Lutheran…if you know history you know how Catholics treated Lutherans. So much wrong in Catholicism.”
My obvious response to that is this:
“By the way I am a Catholic… if you know history you know how Lutherans treated Catholics. So much wrong in Lutheranism.”
When it comes to the Reformation and the subsequent sectarianism it engendered, Protestantism doesn’t exactly come out looking very pristine either, my friend.
But that’s history and we’re talking now. Lutherans and Catholics long ago abandoned going all Sunni-Shiite with each other.
Get over it.
Exactly. And btw, both Catholics and Lutherans behaved very shabbily toward Mennonites. Burning at the stake comes to mind or river dunking in an iron cage. If you drowned you were guilty, if you survived you were innocent.
And I have read that the primary purpose of the Inquisition … was to silence Protestants who had the temerity to read the Bible for themselves (thank you Gutenberg) without the filter of Pope and Cardinals. Nasty business when a Theocracy feels threatened by the loss of power and $$$$.
Kenji – Henry VIII killed more people in his attacks during the Pilgrimage of Grace, alone, than all of the victims of the Inquisition. Oh, and let it be known that Torquemada was, in fact, a Jew who had switched sides earlier!
“And I have read that the primary purpose of the Inquisition … was to silence Protestants who had the temerity to read the Bible for themselves (thank you Gutenberg) without the filter of Pope and Cardinals. Nasty business when a Theocracy feels threatened by the loss of power and $$$$.”
Might I suggest you put down those easy-to-read Chick cartoon tracts and your dog-eared copy of The Da Vinci Code and try educating yourself a little more widely about the Inquisition, the Reformation and the Counter-Reformation?
Kenji – Just try confessing (in a Catholic confessional) the fact that you had drank a bit too much the week-end before. Especially if it is an Irish priest! Truth is, it is not considered peccant for Catholics to do so, and you are likely only to get conditional absolution. The Church is not big on giving absolution for simply enjoying life. This is far more likely the situation in most Protestant sects. I have always wondered why people outside of the Church, consider Her to be a strict and dour institution. How many Protestant sects forbid dancing, smoking, drinking and other pursuits of pleasure. However, if it is seen as a threat to “family”, be prepared to be cut off from the Sacrament!
Hey larry tell me of all of the sins we all commit witch ones can you not do in order to get into heaven tell me what YOU can do to earn your way into heaven?
Paul – That’s a trick question, right? Witches aside, I guess you are asking me whether sorrow for our sins (all if them) and a firm purpose of amendment are required and confessing these through the sacrament of Penance “I give to you the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven – Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.”
Romans 6 … self-deception does not equal grace.