A commentator from this ridiculous Globe & Mail Editorial. I’d have just linked the comment, but for some inexplicable reason, G&M’s comment section doesn’t provide links to comments.
Celtthedog 18 hours ago
Sigh. This is written with a sense of correcting a lot of nonsense.
I’m a Briton who lived in Canada for eight years. That doesn’t make me an expert in Canada, but it does mean I know a lot more about Canada than the writer of this editorial knows about the UK. So, here goes:
Back in the 1980s, Canada fought a general election on the basis of free trade with the United States. It was a heated debate, with issues like national sovereignty and national identity raised, along with those of economics.
The free-trading Conservatives won; the deal was done.
That’s the history. Now imagine if, on the basis of this result, subsequent Canadian governments, without putting it their party platforms, slowly but surely ceded more and more political and not economic, sovereignty to the United States. All the while denying they were doing so. As the process went on, it accelerated, and soon Canadians found their Supreme Court overruled by the US Supreme Court and that certain laws passed by the US Congress, lacking support in Canada, nonetheless became applicable to Canada. Pretty soon you’d start to question what the end destiny of this process was, only to be told by your elected representatives not to worry, political union with the United States was not on the cards.
The analogy is imperfect, but the fact is in 1975 the UK held a referendum on remaining in a “common market” (to quote from the actual ballot paper). Since then, successive parliaments have surrendered more and more of our sovereignty to the European Union — mostly in a series of treaties which polls repeatedly showed were overwhelmingly opposed by the majority of Britons (for the past 30 years polls have consistently shown that only around 20% of the British people support political union with Europe).
It’s fine for you to say the British are wrong to hold these views, just as it would be fine for me to tell you that Canada should form a political union with the United States. It’s not fine to deny people their democratic right to reject such union — or to lie about it.
I won’t waste too much time correcting the misconceptions in here about Scotland. I’ll only note that if a leave vote was so beneficial to the Scottish Nationalist Party, you may want to ask why the SNP’s chief ventriloquist, Alexander Salmon, and his dummy, Nicola Sturgeon, campaigned so aggressively for the “remain” side. Trust me, it wasn’t out of any love for Britain.
Frankly, the view of the English towards the Scots Nats is beginning to resemble that of English-speaking Canadians to the Quebec Nationalists — political blackmailers whose bluff needs to be called.
This newspaper has called for Canada to become a republic when Queen Elizabeth II dies. I understand why. Canada wants to cut the final colonial tie and become a completely sovereign nation. I respect that. But how about dropping he hypocrisy? We want to return to being a completely sovereign nation, too.
And here in the States … we have appeared to slowly cede all of our economic rights and freedoms to China, and Saudi Arabia. And if we get too far out of line … the Saudi royalty will send another group of “moderate” hijackers … to send us a message
Excellent, hear hear!!!
There is a class of people: rich, well educated and used to privilege, that likes to make decisions. It really hurts them when common people start voting. How do you control rabble? Well, call them racists, uniformed, uneducated and right wing.
Trudeau is in the rich class and is making every effort to make sure that the rest of us don’t vote on election reform
Buddy nailed it. Best G&M comment in years. More insightful than their columnist.
There’s an old saying that if ones trades with a fascist, they don’t become a fascist.
However, if one enters a common market, including creeping supranational statist governance, one inevitably turns into a statist &/or is ruled by them.
The final surrender of sovereignty is a common currency. The UK contributes two times what it receives. How is jettisoning this necessarily a bad idea? It only is if you are a statist, hence the leftist temper tantrums, particularly Obama and other co-opted global government types.
When the 1% tantrum tykes riot it is against “globalization” which they see as a takeover of governments by capitalist imperialism. The imperialism of the left is OK with them though; they don’t mind being ruled, just by the coercive PC doctrine which gives them something for nothing, paid for by others.
I’ll take business elites over cultural Marxist statists every time. Voters will make the same calculation if asked imho.
So they aren’t asked, the size of government is never discussed, just how much bigger it can get. Only OP stuff and looting opportunities matter.
We aren’t the libertarians socialists statists hope we are; but our ability to discern between reality and PC nonsense is fogged by the unintelligentsia.
Celt the dog says it well in the comment section of a MMSM “legacy” newspaper.
MMSM webpages usually have far more knowledgeable comments than the “professional” writers of the original article.
The days when newspapers would hire the smartest, most knowledgeable people around has been over for many decades. Something their ex-customers have noticed.
I won’t boost the Mop & Pail’s marketing figures by registering to comment. This editorial is complete BS. It is, like even articles in the Natinal Post, indicative of the ignorance of the ruling elites around the Western world; of how little they understand the greater mass of people that they patronize, pooh-pooh their concerns and generally regard as beyond the Pale. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/beyond_the_pale
Well, Brexit is the first of many a whirlwind that will hit the Western elites, and they will all be surprized. Nexit. Frexit. Dexit. UN gone. IMF gone (much to the dismay of third world dictators and bag-men).
We must do something about Australia.
I rather expect that any future attempts to upset the elites apple cart will be met by brute force, suitably excused by the groveling media.
That will of course leave only one option which will make the civil wars of the past seem like a game of pick up sticks.
One bent-out-of-shape European lawyer wants all future referenda banned:
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/23/lawyer-ban-referendums-save-eu/
Typical leftists. Let the people speak, but only if it supports the left’s objectives.
Brexit. Grexit. Departugal. Italeave. Fruckoff. Czechout. Oustria. Finish. Slovakout. Latervia. Byegium.
Above borrowed from comments section of Stefan Molyneux youtube video – don’t think I’m allowed to link it here. But you can Google it (Brexit Wins! Globalists Lose!) for 26 seconds of joy.
“Frankly, the view of the English towards the Scots Nats is beginning to resemble that of English-speaking Canadians to the Quebec Nationalists — political blackmailers whose bluff needs to be called.”
It’s no bluff. And it’s not blackmail. Scotland will probably hold another referendum and they will opt to separate from England. Northern Ireland too, as reunification will hook them up with the fastest growing economy in the EU, not the sinking ship that is the UK. (And will they even be able to call it the UK then? Or will it just be the “K”?) Chances are they’ll opt to ditch the sinking raft that is England in favour of the EU, which despite its flaws is still a bastion of freedom and wealth.
Anyhoo, stupid move. The sun just official set on the British empire.
England without Northern Ireland or Scotland would be like a dog shaking off a couple fleas. The UK has tried to give away Northern Ireland but they preferred kissing English lips to Irish ass. All that will happen if these countries become independent is that they will all move to England like the Irish.
John,
Nice try but not true.
Uk growth rate is same as EU. Take out the UK and it will be higher than the EU.
Scotland is a drag on the UK.
It is virtually the same as Canada and Quebec. Get rid of an anchor and see the economy rise.
Yet another reason to detest and distrust all elitist legacy Media. The contempt oozing from the leftist elite Media against western citizens is staggering, contempt for freedom, contempt for democracy, contempt for reason and contempt for citizens in general, just appalling. The consensus from the elitist legacy Media machine is in and the consensus is that freedom is bad and that citizens having a say in the future of ones country is “racist” and should be stopped immediately. God damned fascists. No bloody wonder the Media love the imbecilic puppet Gilligan so much, he admires “basic dictatorships” too.
There’s an easy answer to Ireland (Northern and otherwise) as well as Scotland joining the EU – build a wall, build a beautiful wall.
John
Ireland – fastest growing economy? Isn’t it pretty much down the crapper? I can’t see all the good folks lining up at the Orange Lodges to vote for joining Ireland. You do know that Trudeau hasn’t legalized weed yet?
Hope and change?
It’s almost like the media elites are bitterly clinging to their failed socialist dreams.
Quite simply, those fans of the EU model are only supporting it because it allows the EU to force the UK to accept a progressive agenda that an independent UK would never adopt. That is the opposite of what would happen here.
I read that 2 million signatures have been collected for a BRENTRY … overturning of the BREXIT and remaining in th EU. What a bunch of whiney losers … are those “elitist” globalists. And 100,000 signatures collected for London seceding from the UK. I say let them go … but they have to vacate UK soil. They can leave … but they need to relocate to Calais … since they want all the refugees there to come clean their toilets. Yep, see ya … go ahead and rebuild your New London in your beloved EU … with all the cheap labor you want.
There is no signatory author to the article. It’s “THE GLOBE AND MAIL”. Who is that?
The sad part is that the 14 people that read their stuff believe what they say..
Let things be the other way around and the Remain side won, with Leave later wanting another shot at it, guess who’ll be told to shut up and accept the result?
It only goes one way for the left. We should know that by now.
Its my first comment since THE vote.
And hey it was a great day to be in the UK and I was, made it back to vote (yep you have 15 years after you leave to be able to register and vote), and the delicious moment came from what was nearly disaster. Summoned to Aberdeen at the last moment I only just managed to get organised a proxy to vote. So retiring to bed on the Thursday night in a rather somber mood was more than made up for by waking and seeing Kate had posted a link to the BBC site and I’m afraid it is a site I avoid clicking with a vengeance so I went straight to Drudge and what it a wonderful beautiful day, at 05:30 in Aberdeen the sun was shining and never have I looked out on that city with such joy in my heart.
And try as they might even the oh so predictable retorts from the ingrates could not dampen my spirits although the vitriol from them has now reached such a level that its not even disguised by their public wind bags.
Whats left of any real Scottish nation is a rather pathetic whinging whinny petulant child and actually yes the English have actually had enough, just like we never wanted the EU project we actually have also really had enough and no longer care for or want the ingrates either. The deal they get from the rest of the UK is way way better than any they are welcome to try to get from the EU but enough of the surmising, because back now in England, I can assure anyone reading that right now from every Englishman and woman I’ve met in the last 24hours pretty much the first comment is “Enough of these freeloaders” we have really had it. Canada has its Quebec but I don’t think right now that comes anywhere near close to the total exasperation the English have with the whining tossers up in jockland.
As a final comment, years of socialism and feeding at the teat of the state they don’t even know their own history. So I’ll summarise it for those too lazy to do the reading or research and like the unhappy treaties the UK as a whole signed with project EU the act of union was something at the time the English reluctantly conceded to, and, true to form for the next 400 years the Scots continued to reap far greater rewards from the union than they gave, they came cap in hand with a bowl for the gold and to this day they haven’t changed. Most can’t even get it into their thick heads it was their own Lords and Masters, the Lairds that cleared the glens, that subjected their serfs(unlike the English Yeomen) to famine and starvation, and it was not until the Union they had anywhere except france to go. After the union they could go to the Americas and yes England but also the rest of the then English world and thats just scratching the surface.
To steal a phrase “the stupid in socialism runs deep in these people”.
Nicely put. Just had this conversation a few hours ago. Something the Scots have never figured out is “the labour party hates them”. Like here in Canada the boneheads that used to have union factory jobs still think the ndp is going to help them. The ndp hate you. You are nothing but stupid, racist, white trash to them and it doesn’t matter how much retraining you get they will only hire women and visible minorities for those positions.
The Scottish/Celtic people were very clever and invented many of the greatest inventions of modern times. Because they had a good English education to build on.
No. Ireland’s economy isn’t down the crapper. Growth in Ireland is almost 7% per year. Britain is under 2%. And no… the orangemen will not be voting for independence from England, and they mostly voted to leave the EU. But seeing as most of Northern Ireland voted to stay in the EU, they may very well vote to hitch their wagon to a winning economy, not that of a bunch of xenophobic morons who don’t know economics from a can of mushy peas.
Yes DSV “Canada has its Quebec”.
At the moment were not to exasperated with quebek and that is because we just came off of 10 years of Harper.
He kept a lid on them and severely slowed down the theft. Now they have their man at the controls. It’s already starting just look at Bombardier. The pent up demand for government money must be colossal. Bongo will deliver.
A few years from now the country will be as sick of quebek as the Brits are with the Scots.
AMEN!!! Celt The Dog’s counterpoints to the liberal lies broadcast from nattering nillies with microphones is music to my soul. People have already an inalienable right to the pursuit of happiness. Just because socialists are trying to regulate and tax the concept out of existence does not invalidate it. On the contrary – individual rights and freedoms are the biggest threat to their agendas. That is why liberals hate conservatives more than even intolerant hate filled Muslim extremists.
Top comment
“”First the anger”.
—
That is the only sentence that’s worth reading in this G&M Editorial. Anger of the G&M Editorial board, seeing the result of the referendum is not what they wanted/expected/bet on.
This is not an editorial…this a “sore loser” rant – along the same lines as Parizeau’s “ethnic votes”.
Leave voters are xenophobes, racists or just plain ignorant.
Leave campaign proponents are opportunists.
Globe continues on the “Remain” campaign scare tactics – such as: UK does 40% of their trade with Europe. EU can shut them out. Sure…because trade is not a two way street. EU can’t even hold a boycott up (against Russia).
EU wants to make an example out of UK? How? You are talking about EU as being a coherent, tight, marching band synched organization. Is not. May I remind you about Greece? They were supposed to make an example out of it too. How did that work out.
EU is not a family who gets upset because a son/brother shuns them. Is a collection of interests and is in everyone interests that EU has a good trade agreement with UK (if EU lasts long enough to reach such agreement). My take on this: more countries will abandon the union and eventually will be set up as a common market – no more, no less.
While adults are dealing with this major political move G&M writes a high school level editorial about the end of the world as we know it.”
Somebody has to piss off the right . It sells newspapers. Nothing to do with reality.
The Liberals know how to bend over to self interest groups and get votes.
well said Sean.
John exemplifies what the people voted against. Btw, Both Scotland and Northern Ireland are welfare cases, and it would be good riddance if they left the UK.
B, “It only goes one way for the left. We should know that by now.” Always been that way. Liberal Canada is back you know. Other opinions do not count.
Martin B, “On the contrary – individual rights and freedoms are the biggest threat to their agendas. That is why liberals hate conservatives more than even intolerant hate filled Muslim extremists.” Bingo!
Oooh angry!
brainwashed buffoon boy.
All the clever Scots emigrated to Canada over the last 3 centuries and I thank my ancestors for it daily.
Celtthedog nailed it! The economic union with the EU has turned into a Political Union. It was time for Britain to leave or be swallowed by the leaders in Strasburg. We were just in Europe and the feeling is more common than reported. The leadership in Europe defy the terms of left or right but on listening to people they seem off the map on the left!
You are a meat-head, John. Guess who Ireland’s largest trading partner is: The United States. And the second largest trading partner? The United Kingdom. Those are the economies that Ireland has hitched its wagon to.
“Frankly, the view of the English towards the Scots Nats is beginning to resemble that of English-speaking Canadians to the Quebec Nationalists — political blackmailers whose bluff needs to be called.”
This Canadian forum needs a little knowledge of Canadian History. It was the Scots that screwed Canada with the Quebec French problem. The first British Governor of Quebec was a Scott by the name of Murray.. The Scots needed a labor force and Quebec was developed by the Scots, for the Scots…
I think i read someplace (doing research on my Scottish roots) that the Upper Class in Scotland always spoke French…They have always been the Hemorrhoids of the British Empire…
“It’s almost like the media elites are bitterly clinging to their failed socialist dreams”.
That’s a good line and would like to use it.
Something else I would like to see in use is “Quebexit”!
“I’ll only note that if a leave vote was so beneficial to the Scottish Nationalist Party, you may want to ask why the SNP’s chief ventriloquist, Alexander Salmon, and his dummy, Nicola Sturgeon, campaigned so aggressively for the “remain” side.”
Alexander Salmon, and his dummy, Nicola Sturgeon – Something fishy going on in Scotand.
Ireland eh? Reality check – she’s doing well because the institutions of capitalism are allowed to flourish, with top marginal tax rates of 41% personal and 12.5% corporate, well established property rights and business friendly governance, a 4.8% growth rate (not 7% John, but still very good), government 40.7% of GDP, for a ranking of 8th worldwide in the Economic Freedom Scale.
On the challenges they face, unemployment is at 11.6% and government debt at over 100% of GDP, which they are addressing.
OTOH, EU beacon France is 75 on that scale, top marginal tax rates are 45% and 34.3% personal and corporate respectively; a moribund 0.4% growth rate and government spending at 57.5% of GDP; and, a 9.9% unemployment rate with public debt at 95% of GDP, which they are not addressing.
Their sales tax rate if 19.6%; Ireland’s is an obscene 23% BTW. Both those are far too high. I don’t see great virtue in either state on governance.
BTW, just what is your point John?
http://www.heritage.org/index/country/ireland
http://www.heritage.org/index/country/france
John, I know a lot of people in Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland. The only ones who want unification are the IRA terrorists like Martin McGuinness. Nether the Ulstermen nor the Irish want the problems that would result from unification.
Sadly, you are most likely to be correct. They are the true holders of the levers of power and they will be swift to pull them if they are openly challenged. This uprising by the pleebs cannot stand and will not be tolerated. What the outcome looks like in Europe vs what it will look like in N. America, will be very different, but it will be VERY messy.