And not the Dairy Cartel. Read the whole thread.
Chimo: Thank you. Yes I am a politician but I am trying to do politics differently. Don’t believe in vote-buying politics that led to today’s big government. Read this speech I gave in MTL eight years ago to understand why. Excerpts in following tweets. https://t.co/Hk95ccQ0iF https://t.co/GEOALltvXG
— Maxime Bernier (@MaximeBernier) July 20, 2018
I voted for Max too.
Unluckily for me, I neither speak French nor am a quota whore so it didn’t matter.
Scheer = wasted opportunity.
Scheer = the Federal Hudak.
Scheer = who ?
I’m with you on that.
Sheer = Joe Clark II
Sheer = John Tory II
Scheer = Joe Clark II
Are you kidding. Scheer makes Joe look like Rambo.
I voted for Max as well. I was hoping for a pit bull. We got a cocker spaniel. The most vocal opposition to the Lieberals is Michelle Rempel, voicing what Scheer should be saying, loud and often.
Yes. Max’s appeal is that of a pit bull. Those of us who are angry about Trudeau would find that very appealing, and just what is needed. My main concern is that I think many Canadians are frightened of pit-bulls– strong, decisive leaders who promise to take things in a different direction. Let us see how the cocker spaniel does. I also think that Scheer is not nearly as wimpy as Clark.
Max is too bright to be a pit bull….more like a german shepherd.
And, what did cocker spaniels ever do to you? 😉
I voted for Max too, and I agree with you. We do need a Rottweiler, not a spaniel.
Scheer being the leader of the “opposition” is the best thing to have happened to the Liberals by a long shot. I still project a minority Trudeau government in 2019…
I also like Max, but I think you are being a bit unfair to both Scheer and Hudak. Now Hudak did not win, but he was a good choice for leader. A couple of mistakes in the election and the hostility of the unions may have done him in. I think we need to wait until an election to see how Scheer does. I think he is head and shoulders above Trudeau, and may appeal to those who are sick of the silly posturing. In my view, it is too soon to write him off.
Yeah, we have two Ottawa babies running for the top Office in the land,both more concerned with their careers than the effect of their machinations on us peasants.
Liberal troll surfaces.
“Scheer = wasted opportunity.
Scheer = the Federal Hudak.
Scheer = who ?”
More like a Scheer troll surfaces.
Maybe you missed the part where I voted for Max, dumbass ?
Liberal troll, or just another conservative who’s disappointed in the CPC leadership these days?
Not to even mention Lisa Raitt’s praise for the members of Trudeau’s new Cabinet……………
Bingo. Give this man a cookie. Scheer is just a failure waiting to happen whereas Max at least has the charisma where he could have outplayed the shiny pony with the Bookface illiterate masses.
I’m afraid the Federal Tories are trying to follow the Ontario Tory playbook prior to 2018.
“Fail at all costs”
rald
Max = pitbull
Cheers = shitbull
” But it brings a new awareness of an issue and moves the debate forward. It also causes people who do not agree with you to at least respect you.”
Holy shiite, Mr. Bernier, you don’t get much more out-of-touch with the reality of today’s partisan warfare than that statement.
His pretty words are 100% moot unless he is willing to publicly admit that Canada’s media have dubbed themselves the ‘Righteous Official Opposition’ and actively work to keep the CPC as irrelevant as possible. Unless Bernier is willing to ATTACK the status quo and challenge the CBC, etc, as the hostile enemy of Conservatism that they are, he would have little hope of being anything much better than just another Harper.
No matter how wise his platform. IMO, anyways.
No he’s not out of touch. It’s you that’s out of touch because you live in a tribal bubble. Rand Paul is also going this route and it pays off.
What a lost opportunity. Maybe after Joe Two loses in 2019, we will have the ability to have a principled conservative leader.
I voted for max as well. But I cautioned him to be less strident on supply management – especially as that ending it was not party / grassroots policy. AND perhaps more importantly he offered no answers as to how it could be ended in a way that allowed for SM producers and farms that supplied them to adapt or get out.
Politics is the art of the possible where the perfect should not be the enemy of the good. And unfortunately MB hasn’t learned those maxims.
bord, go join the effing libtards, you’d be a perfect fit. You are what wrong with the “conservative” party. How to shut down SM, chop, and give each farmer what they paid or their quota, and never mind “market value”, as some one mentioned. It’s that easy gord.
No, Gord’s right. Politics is the art of the possible. The rest is just pipe dreams and 3rd party status fantasy.
“Politics is the art of the possible. ”
I always figured that sentence must have been coined by a politician who was trying to spit shine his own turd.
Politics is nothing but the acquisition, expansion, and retention of power….and all the arse-licking, back-stabbing, and lying that goes with it. Period.
CGH, governance is the ART of the possible, politics is the problem we have today. But then you, like gord, are not strong on human behavior. Your forte is “technical” and engineering concepts. Gord in an out of touch fool who is in the wrong party. It’s his kind that drag conservatism down
Absolutely Gord is right.
Politics is the Art of the Possible.
Straight ahead pure doctrinaire libertarianism has zero chance electorally now and into the forever future.
As I said to a libertarian (of sorts) recently: why do people willingly pay double or more for staples like milk and cheese? Not a skill-testing question. BECAUSE with such a yuge percentage of the public employed directly or indirectly by government any talk about dairy farmer goodies being withdrawn will strike fear into the black hearts of the general public — a fear of goodie losses all round.
WIN and then maybe whittle away at the subsidies.
Don’t write books.
As Kim Campbell told us, elections are no time to raise ISSUES.
And OMG, he’s not into vote-buying politics. That’s like saying I’m a non-skating hockey player!!
Well, you guys currently, and always will, have exactly the prime ministers you deserve.
Exactly the CBC you deserve.
Never fighting for any principle, means you have none. So good luck with that.
Kevin, my erstwhile libertarian friend is a yuge Ron Paul fan.
I challenged him about Ron Paul’s taking budgetary earmarks like all other congress critters. So much for “principles” of which there are none is politics.
Oh, he thought Ron Paul’s taking earmarks was very clever, very shrewd.
And the inflexible conservatives and libertarians get the prime ministers they deserve – PET Chrétien, Justin etc.
Hogwash. PET (or JPPYET to be exact) beat Stanfield and Clark, those hardline conservatives you so fear are unelectable. Chretien beat Campbell, Charest and again Clark (how scary?). Chretien did benefit from the Reform movement (those of us who had enough of Clark, Mulroney, Campbell, Charest, Clark), but the Reform movement was more popular than PCism.
Mike it was because the inflexible right sat on its hands that PET Et al got elected.
Gord it was in part because the PCs were so pathetic in their opposition to Trudeaupia. They were literally following your playbook. I guess being a ‘wise centrist’ means never saying sorry.
The only future the political right has is in libertarianism lite.
You literally just described the whole Ontario PC playbook from 2000-2015. How did that work out?
“. BECAUSE with such a yuge percentage of the public employed directly or indirectly by government any talk about dairy farmer goodies being withdrawn will strike fear into the black hearts of the general public — a fear of goodie losses all round.”
WTF? Supply management has nothing to do with government employment or ‘freebies’. It’s the kind of issue the conservatives can win on.
I am currently on a tiny little island in the middle of Caribbean, population approx. 61,000 people, and on the store shelves here in a small grocer I can find butter from the USA, from England, from Ireland, from Belgium, and yes, ready…..butter from France, and it is the real genuine stuff.
Back in Canada, G7 country, population 37 million, GDP 1.8 trillion, I can find cartel butter only.
Any politician that shines a light on the cartel will get my attention, and the politician that actually breaks the cartel will get my long term respect.
You do realize that that French (Read:EU) butter is being dumped into that market at far below cost and that there are vast warehouses in the EU storing the overproduction on the taxpayers dime.
What that does have to do with the point of my post?
My hard earned money, I want to spend it on what I want to buy, and not be forced to buy cartel butter. If there is a ready seller of a (legal) product and a ready buyer, my government should get the hell out of the way.
“What that does have to do with the point of my post?”
The reason you find particular butters is the cost is heavily subsidized by government so the product itself is virtually worthless. In Canada the product is subsidized by consumers, is overpriced, and production is limited as to produce no surplus.
Those EU subsidies force out competitor options – ie American butter – from that island store shelf. Thus you do not have choice.
No they don’t. They don’t ‘force out’ anything. It’s at worst a transfer of wealth from EU taxpayer to customer. Read BC’s post: he has tons of choice.
Getting rid of SM is easily done. The quotas are bought out at fair market value and producers can either carry on in the new market or shut down the dairy and do something else. The quota money is paid by adding a cent or two to a litre of milk and milk products.
It seems to me Max the libertarian is an awkward fit in the CPC. Libertarians are poor team players. Politics in the Westminister system is all about whipped votes, loyality and reward for taking a bullit.
Bought at fair market value? Only if that is determined 12 months after the market is opened!
Yes fair market value. It’s the cost of living in a democracy.
If an individual is harmed by government action they should be fairly compensated.
But the moment a government announced the end of SM the market value plummets. And what about all of the investment/debt incurred by producers and others based on SM being in place? Shouldn’t they be compensated for the harm caused by government?
Right … as soon as they pay back every nickel for the benefit caused by government. Welfare given, welfare taken.
Mike: do you have anything realistic to contribute?
The bigger issue is the collapse of land values in eastern Canada that would result. As I have posited here before, land consolidation has to happen via allowing AG REITS and other measures.
“The bigger issue is the collapse of land values in eastern Canada that would result….”
Collapse? Or return to real value? But your point is well taken, you did hit the nail on the head – although I’m not sure that you see today’s ridiculously inflated farm land prices as a problem.
Along with corn sourced ethanol, Canada’s dairy supply mangement system has driven the cost of arable land through the roof of reason. And a by-product of that is the clearing of hundreds of thousands of acres of marginal lands (bird/wildlife habitat) as farmers try to cash in on the ag-land sweepstakes.
It is an absolute *&^%$#g mess – and to top it all off, the Farm Credit Corporation (Crown Corporation) has loaned out billions and billions to childish farmers who want the biggest Tonka tractors and the biggest arable sandbox in the County.
And the banks – to remain competitive – have followed suit; loaning out their own billions, apparently concluding that their risk will be more than adequately covered by land price increases that will presumably go on for ever. But any sane person knows that ultimately, farm land is only as valuable as the returns from what you can grow or raise on it.
This is our Fanny May and Freddy Mac in waiting. And other than Ian Cumming at Ontario Farmer, and Terrence Corcoran at the National Post, no one is talking about it. A 1.5 percent interest hike will be fatal to a hell of a lot of farmers. And guess who will suck up the losses of the FCC…and for that matter, the banks?
With the exception of Bernier, every politician in the Country prefers not to talk about it, hoping that they can kick the smoking can down road so it explodes on the next guy’s watch. And with every passing day the pressure just builds and builds.
Both collapse and return to real value. The first can be avoided.
Supply Management is like the Wheat Board they had in the Prairie’s many didn’t want to leave and some still wish it was here. Because to make money on their crops they have to find the best price for their products and many don’t want to do the work, they were satisfied with Wheat Board doing the leg work. Now many farmers are computer savvy and are making more money for their products than ever thought. Why couldn’t this work for the Dairy farmers once their quotes were bought out? No more dumping of product find a buyer whether in Canada or USA!! I think a lot of Dairy Farmers like the ease and don’t want change BUT we are always being told CHANGE is good for us..or GROWING is another way of saying it. If the product had a lesser price at the supper market more would be purchased. The end of Supply Management is called PROGRESS!! It’s not like the Dairy Farmer is going to without money…when their quotas are bought it is for millions and they get to keep the dairy cows…PROGRESS!!
The difference is scale and one is a monopoly and the other a monopsony. The wheat board had a monopsony on western grain. That depressed prices (as opponents of the monopsony correctly pointed out).
With the end of the SM monopoly prices will plummet. And over the years SM farms have gotten far less efficient relative to countries that do not have SM. The average dairy in PEI has fewer than 100 milking head. A free market dairy would be ten times that size at the bare minimum.
Grain farmers in western Canada were globally competitive before the monopsony was ended thus the change was almost entirely positive.
Gord Turk: With the end of SM monopoly prices will plummet…isn’t that what it is all about get milk and milk products, eggs and checken at a cheaper price. I guess for it to work right Canadians and American Dairy Farmers would have to all tariffs and subsidies removed for a free and open market. They did it years ago why not once again. It’s all about the money and whom they are gouging. Trump wants all tariffs and subsidies dropped. It needs to be done!
I also voted for Joe Who II, and in hindsight that appears to have maybe been an error. Max was third choice after Kellie Leitch.
However, as Gord and cgh have said, we have to be realistic as to who is electable in today’s socialist attitude climate of a society that yearns for a free lunch and a media that shills for and supports the various lite and hard Marxist ideologies.
Yes, Ken, absolutely correct. That is why Christine Elliott was the “smart” choice for PC leader in Ontario as she was electable and Ford was not electable. Keep watching CBC.
About 200,000 farmers in Canada of which 12,000 are supply management. You know those 12,000 are mostly Liberal supporters (and soon to be lapsed CPC members who signed up for Scheer) and wouldn’t vote CPC; pleasing your enemies does not make them your friends.
As Max says, why protect Pierre Trudeau’s 1970’s socialist legacy?
No one here is saying Sm shouldn’t be ended. The process – which I have heard bupkiss from MB on – for getting there is what needs to be presented.
And 12,000 farms are supported by probably triple that and then all of the infrastructure that supports them are what we are talking about and that’s a much bigger deal and involves many CPC ridings.
I think ultimately it will be an external force – in the form of a drop dead trade deal with the US that requires Canada ending SM – that gets the job done.
Easy Gord, you eliminate the tariffs. Next?
Not only would land be less expensive but so would eggs, dairy, chicken. All good.
And there is massive upheaval as a result with lots of financial hardship for people not directly involved in SM. People have made decisions based on government policy. The ending of that policy is now a cause for that hardship. And it is the government’s (and the CPC’s) duty to mitigate that hardship.
You don’t have to be cruel to be Conservative.
Yes Ken, in hindsight, Bernier would probably have been a much superior choice to Scheer.
I am willing to admit my personal bias kept me from even considering a Quebecer. It is a deep distrust I would certainly understand any fellow westerner harboring, so I certainly am not beating myself up too badly about it. As I previously stated, until the CPC realizes the media is as big a political opponent as the Liberal Party itself and they publicly challenge the insidiousness of both political correctness and identity politics, the leader’s name is of little consequence. They are lib-lite.
Try to talk politics with a maritimer some time.
Their political philosophy boils down to “What’s in it for me?”
Whoever offers the most to them personally buys their vote.
From the speech: “It’s obvious that a large segment of the population has had enough of the clichés that politicians come out with, of their manipulative jargon to say one thing and its opposite at the same time. They want to hear something else, based on clear ideas, principles and not just empty slogans.”
Seems to me that Trudeau should be listening to that speech.
Max has a lot to offer and may one day be the PM. In the mean time, Scheer should definitely be making better use of Max. Max could be blunt and say many of the things that Scheer shys away from, criticizing the government on their NAFTA failure, for example. Instead, Scheer seems to be attempting to lower Max’s profile. Not good.
Max’s moment has passed.
It’s Doug’s turn to do what needs doing if Canada is to survive and her children are to have a future—put the Libranos out of business, send their globalist paymasters packing and treat the United States of Donald Trump and the Israel of Benjamin Netanyahu as models, not adversaries.
This “libertarian” nonsense was only intended as a rationale for throwing the borders of civilized nations open to goods cheaply made in China and the wretched of the earth—and only ever appealed to people who were wealthy enough to be able to escape the consequences of their once proud countries’ becoming Third World cesspits.
You want to save a buck on crap you don’t need and move your firm’s factories to communist China, ruining your former employees’ lives? Free trade is your man.
You want your grandchildren to live in freedom? See that if it can possibly be made at home, make it at home. Put the money you didn’t give to foreigners to work securing the nation’s borders to foreign invasion, and making sure you always have the wherewithal to fight wars, and win them.
Who would I want to have my back if I were faced with a gang of Third World thugs determined to kill me and my entire family? Max? No indeed. Doug Ford.
You have no idea what ‘freedom’ is and need treatment for late-stage neurosyphilis.
Stupid Liberal Justine’s War Against Canadians.
SLJustine say, Moo! it’s kon Scheer’s faolt.
…-
“Canada to Miss Deadline for Quickly Reselling Trans Mountain Pipeline
Kinder Morgan agreed to work with government until July 22
A dozen potential buyers remain for pipeline to Pacific coast”
“About a dozen parties are interested in the Trans Mountain oil pipeline, but the Canadian government won’t reach a deal to flip it before a marketing deadline with Kinder Morgan Inc. closes Sunday, according to people familiar with the situation.
The government’s C$4.5 billion ($3.4 billion) purchase of the pipeline and expansion project gave it to July 22 to co-market the pipeline with an eye to selling it to a third party. A quick sale would have effectively allowed the government to substitute in another buyer for the current deal to be finalized.”
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-20/canada-said-to-miss-deadline-to-quickly-resell-trans-mountain
The problem with the Trans Mountain is that no-one will invest a penny in it until it has pumped its first tanker of oil. Everyone simply believes the Liberals too incompetent or unmotivated to successfully see the pipeline built. Once it is operation and the economics are predictable, it will quickly sell.
Imagine if households were run the same way as the government. You let your immature 15 year old handle the finances. Let him apply for more and more credit cards, when the rates go up, he applies for even more. Then he passes a million to severy hobo and panhandler he sees to make himself feel like Diamond Jim. He Stops paying principle on the mortgage and takes out a second mortgage. Then he appoints his kid sister to handle negotiations for payment arrangements,and future income. The crazy aunt comes for a visit and stays in the attic, she gets to look after the environment while flushing wastewater into the St. Lawrence and flying around in jets to tell us about the harm of plastic. Finally he takes an uncle terrorist along on family trips to provide him camouflage.
Meanwhile his cousins in the press continue to vilify the former office holder because he did not share their political ethnicity.
In order to clean up the mess, the neighborhood send Barney Fife to straighten them out.
Have you noticed how people who do not have an argument, always resort to name calling?
“inflexible right” is just name calling. As such, the absence of argument means it can simply be ignored.
If I ever come across a politician with principles, like Bernier, I may even rouse myself to go out and vote.
Failing that, I will just enjoy the kvetching and moaning of the people who do not like the compromise result.
Then again, maybe compromising with the man eating crocodile will make it your friend. Maybe compromising could have stopped Pearl Harbor or the Holocaust…
Signed, inflexible.
It’s one thing to have flexibility. It’s another thing to highhandedly lecture others about elect-ability while transparently having no clue as to what makes someone electable.
It’s not ‘centrism’. That’s been tried and it usually fails. There is no ‘political centrist nirvana’; everyone is right-wing and left-wing at different issues and the mood of the country determines which one is important. Killing supply management is an obvious winner for the CPC. Scheer is an obvious loser.
Max was the ONLY good one in that race after Kevin dropped out. Not only did he have some decent ideas like lite libertarianism and an embrace of China, he actually had charisma and appeal to youth. All of the other candidates save Kevin had a rod up their rears. Hopeless.