The silence and boos of the Toronto audience during this segment from the Bannon-Frum debate is deeply illustrative of the State of Denial so many Left of Center people seem to be about the “current state of friction” between the Left and the Right in America and throughout the Western World. Ask one of these folks whether more violence in recent memory stems from the Left or the Right and they will respond with the latter without a moment’s hesitation. Which begs the question, how do they explain this and this?
The unanswered question is obvious: Do these people sincerely believe that the Right is responsible for most of the violence, when there is mountains of evidence to the contrary, or are they merely NPCs whose internal scripts have been written in concrete by the M.A.D. (Media-Academia-Democrat) establishment?
Liars…..as usual.
Liars
Bannon kicked his ass……. as expected.
The immature, emotional left always, always strikes out with violence, when their fantasy worldview is exposed and rubbed in their faces. They cannot coexist with facts…….
Indeed … fantasy world
That is how Frum’s concluding statements are best summarized … fantasy world
Every single word he uttered about populism and populists … pure fantasy. Oh, but I am sure he thought himself oh, so clever when he wrote … “populists aren’t ‘popular’”. How devastatingly clever … spare me. I would suggest THAT … is exactly what makes we populists so powerfully effective and focused on the task at hand – we don’t care about being “popular” … being “liked” by the leftist horde. We are willing to risk all that “going along to get along” … to do the right thing. The thing which is best for all people. I said ALL … not “some”, like Frum.
Frum represents the old. The dead and failed centralized political class who believe they know what’s best for our … society. They don’t. So we’ve taken over.
Please get out of the new one if you can’t lend your hand
I tried to listen to Frum and to find any arguments. I failed. All I heard was several different logical fallacies. I had to laugh at several occasions when he talked about the populist using fear and anger, then proceesed to raise fear in his audience about how dangerous they are.
He was either employing ad hominens, appeal to emotion, red herrings, or just stating bald faced lies.
I didn’t find Bannon that effective either, and he employed a few fallacies as well, but I would say at a ratio of 1:5 as compared to frum.
Even in the end if the crowd was still 50/50, it was a win for Bannon as it started with 28/72.
I would say it was his calm demeanour, self depracation and regular humour, and the hecklers and arrests outside (the crowd inside knew what was happening outside) that pushed people overm to Bannon’s side
However, I am somewhat annoyed at the premise that there is this split between populism and liberal democracy. There isn’t, what we have here is word game that the left has introduced just to attack democracy.
Democracy first and foremost is a populist adventure, of course it is! You are asking people to vote for their favourite or how shall we say, popular, politician. It was fine when the left won, now it seems to be going against them and they are looking for an excuse to re-define democracy to mean – your vote doesn’t count unless it’s a vote for us. The Bastards.
> the premise that there is this split between populism and liberal democracy
Well, as I have witnessed, this so called “populism” that Bannon is referring to is nothing more than a check/balance against the entrenched, permanent state… deep state, that liberal democracy has allowed to take hold. I’ve always said that tyranny of the majority is far far better than what we have now, which is tyranny of the minorities. So bring on populist conservatism. Populist socialism is nothing short of the end of a nation.
I like that … “tyranny of the minorities”.
That is EXACTLY the modus operandi of the divisive-Left. They find every so-called “disenfranchised” fringe interest group; gays, lesbians, weirdos, body mutilators, satan worshipers, witches, dopers, the homeless, illegal aliens, the disabled, the ugly, the unwashed (by choice), PETA members, vegans … and for the coup de gras… transgenders … and elevate their interests to the forefront of all political discourse.
Every FREAK you ever encountered in HS. The odd, the ugly, the misfits … have become the tyrants of today’s politics and social order. They DEMAND equality … as most people could care less … and will IGNORE them all the same. But they tyrannize we “normals” … as if we are the “problem”. Their nonconformity does not need government intervention. The government can never legislate “normalcy” for the abnormal.
At our core, we Americans will live and let live … unless … you are disrupting the social order. Unless you become antisocial. Then we “normals” will push back … and get all “populist” and whatnot.
The left has been able to distort reality to see a swastika on the right giving license to claim it’s not violence but simply justified resistance
Does anybody have a credible update on the Munk Debate results?
Bannon was announced as the clear winner but then stories circulated about a ‘draw.’ (what are the odds?)
By listening to the crowd — The Laurentian Elite — I thought Bannon would lose big time. The crowd loved Frum’s ad homonym attacks. Frum cited the highlights of the CNN playbook and the crowd reacted like a CNN panel. What else could you expect from a group fed american news filtered through the likes of CBC and CTV?
Yeah just heard that. They are now claiming there was no change in the numbers and they made a mistake putting those up. Pull the other one.
Violence is oppression. The oppressed cannot commit violence because, by definition, they are the victims of it. They commit justice. Ergo, anything they do that looks like violence to you is not violence, but the fact that you perceive it as violence is evidence that you are an oppressor violently opposing justice and it is therefore a duty to justice that you get “justiced” in the face good and hard, which, as per the above, isn’t violence.
Ergo the Right is committing all the violence.
Hey, don’t talk to me. I’m not the one who made that shit up. I’m just answering the question.
What you described was the essence of “liberation” theology when I first heard about it about 40 years ago.
“Thou shalt not kill” applied only to the right, particularly when it took action against communist insurgents, the latter being portrayed as the victims of oppression who took up arms to dispense “justice”. But leftists committing murder was given divine sanction, backed, of course, with appropriate scripture passages, many of which were taken out of context. Again, they didn’t kill, but inflicted justice upon their oppressors.
*
from the folks who want to shut down GAB…
“In a Dataminr search of Twitter posts since Inauguration Day containing the
phrase “assassinate Trump“… more than 12,000 tweets came up.”
*
I honestly PRAY for PDJT’s safety … every single day.
Yes, I know … the Left doesn’t believe words and thoughts aimed at my “sky daddy” do any good. However, they should know that my prayers are rather detailed and specific … like … “Lord, I pray that the SS sees the assassin before he gets a shot off … and empties a clip in the would be killers chest … in a very tight shot cluster”
The globalist scum with the leisure time and money to turn out at events like this understandably did not want to be told that the era of their dominion was coning to an end, and that the vast majority of them would die in poverty, in exile or in a prison, to be rented out to the local farmers to do the menial farm labour they swear white people won’t do.
David Frum’s voice was wavering, as if begging a future patriot not to blow out the lump of pigshit that passes for his brain.
There is more violence by the left. They are cowards and they’re only tough in a group. But if these antifa pukes keep their shit up they’ll end up getting stacked like cordwood because the right is capable of far, far more.
Liberals and democrats – talk about your oxymoron. They hate individual liberty and freedom. It scares them. It should.
To be fair to the (brainwashed/indoctrinated Canadian) audience, they were repeating what they had been told & shown by the MSM.
Most of them do not know they are believing lies. And when exposed to the truth, they naturally respond with “that cannot be true, as it does not jive with what I (think I) know.” It will take LOT of evidence to change an entrenched opinion. And the MSM are doing their best to keep that from happening, and to reinforce the Narrative.
Agree with the use of jargon to slant an issue. When there were revolutions happening in S. America, any leftists were referred to as “Freedom Fighters.” Any non-leftists were “Right Wing Death Squads.”
Planting the seeds for 30 years or more….
The MSM are the true enemy.
first timer: You are absolute right on this. THE MEDIA IS OUR (Conservatives, Republicans and the Populist) WORST ENEMY! They don’t report the truth as written or heard. They put their spin on it….they say I will report what I think you should hear! When I heard a reporter say that about 10 yrs ago at CBC…that was the last time I watched CBC NEWS.
A CBC reporter said that to me personally over twenty years ago at a Saskatchewan rural municipal convention when I questioned their misreporting of a previous day’s resolution result.
first timer and L, you are both exactly right about the Canadian media selling their souls to the hard left.
first timer, re: revolutionary terminology, I belief it was George Carlin who used to ponder…. ‘If crime fighters fight crime and firefighters fight fires, what do freedom fighters fight?
This indoctrination was already present before WW II when Stalin and his media acolytes in the west demonized their fascist continental opponents and then when he and Hitler made their Devil’s Pact suddenly the verbal aggression stopped, only to resume after Hitler attacked Soviet Russia. After the war was won the leftist politicos and leftist media went into full brainwashing and propaganda mode.
You are absolutely correct, the MSM is the true enemy of freedom in North America and Europe and in this debate you witnessed the result of decades of brainwashing.
Stalin??? Oh, you mean FDR’s Uncle Joe.
First of all everyone should go back about a minute on this video and listen to the question from the moderator that got this started. He loaded the question up by suggesting the populist movement language is the cause of violence. All the violence. He used a liberal talking point calling the Travel Ban the “Muslim Ban” thereby insinuating that populist movements are Islamophobic. Bannon did bite back a bit by confirming the Travel Ban was upheld by the Supreme Court but he had an opportunity to explain calling it the “Muslim Ban” is in itself inflammatory. Bannon started his response by trying to invoke Hillary’s “uncivil til we win” speech but the moderator shouted him down several times scolding him for straying from topic. So now the “moderator” was debating Bannon.
Then Bannon missed another golden opportunity by not using the attempted murder of Steve Scalise as an example of leftist violence. He should of drilled the point in that the shooter was a Bernie Bro, that he had a list of Republicans in his pocket and he wanted to kill them all. (Mark Steyne would of DESTROYED the room given the chance) He also should of made the point that no one in the conservative media blamed Bernie Sanders in the way the liberal media blames Trump… for everything. Conservatives, Greg Gutfeld for example, said then that Bernie wasn’t responsible…the SHOOTER was knowing full well that if the shoe was on the other foot they wouldn’t be offered the same courtesy. Boy, were they right. The leftist argument then is Bernie’s rhetoric isn’t as harmful as Trumps. Perhaps not but something triggered this lunatic. He was screaming “Health care for all” as he was pulling the trigger! Maybe the guy got wound up listening to Bernies media acolytes that applauded his ‘socialism good, capitalism evil’ talk. How can you quantify what kind of speech makes people snap? You can’t, that’s why you should only blame the person responsible. Again I don’t think Steve Bannon was prepared for a Trump debate. That’s not what this was to be about. Because Frum immediately turned it into a Trump is evil debate, helped by a lackluster moderator, tells you all you need to know about Frums unwillingness to debate populism.
ok…this is not the way politics works
Democrat base is minorities….the more minority classifications you can create…the more minorities you create….which increases the democrats base….and we all know that minorities are victims, at least all the ones stupid enough to fall for this
…and as long as the democrats get away with creating more and more minority victims…and using that to divide the country
the more those people will course believe they are the victims…wash rinse repeat
Until..”We are victims here”.
Just like “Socialism works great..until you run out of other peoples money”.
Funnily enough it occurs to me that tar and feathering a socialist agitator and running them out of town on a fence rail is natural justice.
Their audience giving what they said they wanted.
Perhaps it is time Canada’s Talking heads were given what they demand of us?
I think we see more and more becoming less “stupid enough to fall for this”. We now have the #walkaway movement and an offshoot of that is the #blexit movement, blacks realizing the Dems have no interest in their well being. History proves that. Candice Owens being the face of that movement, a Female, Black, Millennial. Three victim groups rolled into one. Soon we’ll have, if it’s not there right now, a Latino movement for those that came to America legally and are disgusted by those thinking they have a “victims right to enter illegally”. There’s many Latino’s that don’t want to be lumped in with those that think that way. They rose above that victim status and are doing OK thank you.
dunno Boots….the left seems to be creating new minority victims as fast as they can,,,and the more minority victims they create the bigger their base
Used to be just gay…now that’s been divided up so many times…I fully expect to see native american male that identifies as butch lesbian
Does an npc shit its pants in the woods?
Oh well, the anti-communist victories of the 1980s are history now, time to dust off the old left-bashing costume and change in a phone booth somewhere. Umm, wait a minute, there’s no phone booth. Maybe leave it to the younger generation (again). We had our shot at it, and now it’s their turn, unless they want to be bossed around by commies. I sure didn’t in 1982.
lol!!!
30 years ago I was the photo editor for an ontario university paper. the staff marxist praised and defended the missile attack on korean air flight 007.
I asked him if the next step was to get a party member looking over EVERYONE’S shoulder for ‘correct thought’. sound of crickets. I then offered to do an editorial, which the rest of them wished to chime in BUT *without* their name on it. once again I swiftly pointed out the hypocrisy.
ya gotta use that word a lot when discussing leftists.
Toronto: old Wendat word meaning “many crying papoose”.
The reaction of the Toranna audience during Bannon’s opening speech made me feel that I’m not a Canadian any more. After 90 years, I don’t feel like a Canadian. Amazing how it has happened so quickly.
I applaud anyone who was able to finish listening to Frum’s opening speech. It wasn’t worth the effort. He hasn’t been worth listening to for years. The man’s a has-been who never was.
Well said. I agree. What did I take the Queen’s shilling for and wear the khaki, just to have the country turn into a Marxist Soviet clone behind my back.
Well, in reality and I’m sure you know full well, it’s Toronto that is no longer Canada.
The left: lovers of violence, deniers of civil rights, a group that employs thugs dressed in black to beat people up, a group of people that uses “re-education” and prison camps? Sounds like modern day socialists, sounds like Maoists, Stalinists, etc.
Just look at Venezuela, a country Naomi Klein (a senior NDP strategist) called a “wonderful example of successful socialism”
I say NO to the left.
We’re the protestors outside conservatives?
Robert said in the initial post: “Do these people sincerely believe…”
That’s the wrong question.
These are people committing violence because they’re in a crowd. They’ve got lots of propaganda and momentum behind them, and they’re out looking for a fight. For fun. They’re soccer hooligans. Hockey fans with a hate on for the out-of-town team. Football fans. Argos vs TiCats in Hamilton for the Grey Cup.
If you look into their lives, for the most part you see them doing exactly the same activities, buying the same products, watching the same movies, living the same way in the same places as the people they’re beating up. Their team is the DemocRats. They’re beating up the fans of the other team, Republicans.
What’s stupid is the cities where this goes down are allowing it to happen because they’re DemocRat fans too. If the cops treated both sides the same and arrested everybody, it would stop. But they don’t do that, so it will get worse instead.
And eventually they’ll get stacked up like cordwood.
Well the silence and the boos were far better than what you hear normally, the debaters were able to make their points without much interference from the crowd.
Frum’s arguments that were applauded by the Toronto crowd, are very familiar to those in the crowd as they’re on the news nightly as the “view of the right” … it is those “preaching to the converted” moments you’re hearing.
And Bannon, by simply stating what his beliefs are, is able to win back 1/4 of that crowd.
No wonder the MSM doesn’t report with accuracy what this movement nor what President Trump is saying / doing. They’d be losing by so much more than a 51:49 split in the popular vote if they had the truth given to them.
To answer Robert’s question. I would suggest “they merely NPCs whose internal scripts have been written in concrete by the M.A.D. (Media-Academia-Democrat) establishment?” is the right answer. This has been quietly happening over many decades and the Marxist infiltrated media is the culprit. Yuri Bezmenov warned us a long time ago that this was happening.
David Frum is deluded if he thinks hiding his head in the sand and ad homonyms will make the populist movement go away. He has the same delusions that the other dozen and more Republicans candidates had during the run up to the choice. The people are in the mood for change and which way will it go? The David Frums of North America and Europe also have their head if they think the populist movement in other areas of the western world will go away. The people there are also in the mood for change.
For some reason Canadians have been insulated from this angst. Maybe the reality of drastic increases in the cost of living due to carbon taxes will wake them up. No other freedom destroying proclivities of the Marxist orientated Liberal Party and sundry other progressives seem to wake up Canadians.
Robert Sibley, journalist, author, holds a Ph.D in political science. He wrote for many years for the Ottawa Citizen as a columnist, editorial writer, and essayist. Sibley has an essay in the Dorchester Review in which he writes that the common citizens of North America and Europe are in a period of anxiety and of being exposed to one crisis after another and which has been building since the cold war ended. Sibley discusses Antonio Gramsci, the Italian communist, and whose view was that the west was in a crisis of authority or a modern version of the Roman eras described ‘interregnum’, and that since Reagan and Thatcher there has been no leadership that is prepared to deal with this anxiety until Trump came along. Gramsci said, “The old world is dying and the new world struggles to be born. Now is the time of monsters”. The left elite, through Obama and Clinton, in the spirit of Gramsci had hoped to capitalize on this angst to move the US radically to the left.
The left in Europe and Canada has the bureaucrats and the right and left Milquetoast politicians that claim to be dealing with the issues, but the issues are only getting worse. Brexit and the voting pattern changes in other European countries are evidence of a populist movement that is looking for leadership.
The question is, and as articulated by Bannon and ignored by Frum, will this populist movement be led by freedom loving populists like Trump or be taken over by the left.
The protestors inside the Thompson Hall and outside the hall, as well as the leftist protestors at every similar public event or at various university free speech events represent the radical leftist populist segment of society. They, fortunately, have as yet no leader to lead them. Freedom loving people have the imperfect Trump at the moment.
A time of monsters indeed.
What to add?…
Given a choice, anybody who has an IQ above Fahrenheit room temperature, has anything of value to contribute to a civilized society, and values anything that isn’t money or sexual gratification will support right-wing populism. Every time.
In Brazil, only savages and white harlots voted for the Arab Haddad. Civilized Brazilians who work for a living almost all voted for Bolsonaro.
I would call Trump the perfect person at this time. Trump clearly has an skillset that includes “controlling the narrative” and he is wiping out the old media infrastructure. His enemies are all looking like incompetent fools.
I took the silence differently. I think Bannon got to several people. People shut up when they are listening.
I listened to the debate earlier today.
Bannon ran circles around Frum simply by using facts, logic, and reason.
Frum is just a leftover neo-con disappointed that the people had exercised their right to vote and elected someone who represented their views rather than O’Bummer II. Resorting to name-calling and insults was all he had left. To quote from Macbeth, he was “full of sound and fury, signifying nothing”.
https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/illustration/nervous-breakdown-royalty-free-illustration/455425521
He needed a drink after all that sound and fury…
Interesting, people starting to realize what I have known for decades.
Just got back from a week in ON. Driving along listening to NPR out of NY. They had some liberal on a panel who threw out this comment on violence. “Name one instance where any Democrat ever instigated an act of violence at a demonstration.”
The comment went unchallenged.
Simple explanation for this: I cannot name ONE instance, but if you listen to Maxine Waters – you can find a multiple instances, but sorry I cannot find only ONE.
and no I normally do not regularly listen to Maxine, but too many bloggers post her violent rantings