So back when the US military was trying to make an ice base like the Planet Hoth from Empire Strikes Back (really happened, 20 years before the movie), they drilled an ice core and hit paydirt. Someone finally got around to looking at that dirt, and it has some startling revelations about the Greenland ice sheet. And when you add that up with what CO2 levels were, something does not jive. And then the mental gymnastics by the media and researches around this are even more entertaining.
Perhaps the science isn’t settled, after all?
link?
good , it’s not just me.
I am so smart. SMRT.
Link now added. Sorry, I’m not a morning person, and I posted this early in the morning for this Saskatchewan boy currently in the land of the mosquito.
“this Saskatchewan boy currently in the land of the mosquito.”
Winnipeg?
I always seem to look at things differently…
Such as the incredible Meteor and Astroid strikes that really created such different landscapes.
Much more water would disbursement of the planetary shock of the energy impacts.
Even the ‘Great Lakes’ would suggest a split of an Astroid impacts.
Certainly would flipped the Hemispheres as science seems to suggest.
Our current science doesn’t include any water loss…they suggest that everything was created by volcanic rise only of landmass.
https://phys.org/news/2023-07-greenland-greener-history-previously-thought.html
416,000 years ago.
That must be it, Steve, but searching for the whole paragraph I also found this old article:
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/secret-ice-base-greenland-camp-century-pollution
As far back as 2013 there were indications the Arctic was much warmer (8 deg C) at periods in the past than today. But the spin put on these observations is amazing. Such as in the link I provided above where the Greenland ice-sheet is described as not as stable as previously thought and its rapid melting in the past is a “foreboding wake-up call” of what is in store in the current climate change devastation. I would have thought that the rapid warming of the Earth and the melting of the Greenland ice-sheet would mean that natural warming occurs to a far greater extent than the alarmist scientists were previously aware of. Silly us.
The following link is from 2013. I believe the core was drilled back in the 1990s. I read an article that the Danish team had “hit” ferns and moss at the base of the ice-sheet in central Greenland and they weren’t expecting that because it meant most of the Greenland ice-sheet had melted (not only melted but vegetation had established itself). The Earth would have been much warmer for a much longer period to melt most of the Greenland ice-sheet. But it interferes with the current meme and that Danish article can’t be “googled” anymore.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/01/130123133428.htm
I have a friend who worked on the oil rigs in Northern Alaska. He said some of their drills would bring up pieces and fronds of palm trees. This is really not unknown, but a lot of people are heavily invested in not knowing.
I have always believed the theory that CO2 levels have any significant impact on temperature is horse shit. World temperature is the primary determinant with reflection of radiation back into space secondary. A parts per million gas? Not so much. I remain skeptical that PhDs in relevant fields could buy into this crap. Groupthink or die?
scar, you are correct, CO2 is not a pollutant or a climate driver. Fools who think lowering it would be a good thing are just that fools. Too low we all die, that would include the fools that want to try and lower CO2.
It has been shown that CO2 rise follows temperature rise, not the other way around. As the oceans warm they are unable to keep as much CO2 in solution, so they outgas and raise the atmospheric C)2 levels. And the oceanic warming is governed by solar activity, which has also been carefully tracked for a long time.
If CO2 was a significant greenhouse gas, oceanic outgassing of it would cause a thermal runaway that has never happened, even when CO2 levels were at 9000 ppm millions of years ago.
But climate alarmists don’t do math. They do feelings.
“It has been shown that CO2 rise follows temperature rise, not the other way around”
I was just about to post the same. That fact was revealed not long after the initial IPCC report, but somehow was immediately ‘buried’ …and the dire sea level rise predictions were ‘walked back’ with every new report released.
These people are delusional.
Joe Bastardi of Weatherbell has been talking about the massive increase in violcanic activity* since the mid 1980’s in the ‘ring of fire’, which correlates to the increase in sea surface temperatures in the Pacific. Adding to the outgassing of CO2….
*Not his research by the way but I can’t find the author at the mo.
Also, I recently saw a story about the Hunga Tonga–Hunga Haʻapai eruption in 2022, which sent 148,675,327,360 (148 trillion) litres of water into the stratosphere, where it will increase global temperatures for the next 5 to 10 years. Who needs man made global warming eh?
World temperature?? Oops! I meant solar radiation is the primary determinate.
” Groupthink or die?”
It’s funding or die!!
And these are the results you will “prove”.
“” Groupthink or die?”
It’s funding or die!!
And these are the results you will “prove”.”
Absolutely. This is a TRILLION DOLLAR industry we are talking about, and they will abide no threats to their potential profits.
A trillion dollar industry whose principle products are lies, misinformation and fear; which makes it the perfect partner for mainstream media. MSM – misinformation media.
The Greenland data has been well known for decades. Interesting thing is, for those who are not familiar with it, that the Greenland ice cores show much higher [CO2] than the EPICA. data from Antarctica. You’d think everyone would accept the Greenland data some of which if memory serves showed [CO2] higher than 400ppm but you’d be wrong. It was decreed that Greenland data was somehow contaminated and Antarctic data which shows much lower levels is perfect. Therefore only Antarctic data is published and Greenland is ignored. It’s quite amazing really.
Well, well…next scientists will rediscover that the sun doesn’t revolve around the Earth, biological men can’t become women and Lysenko’s theories on plant evolution are wrong.
I think that the original theory that man made CO2 causes warming was made in good faith. But, as additional information began to show the link between carbon dioxide and climate got weaker, politics took over. Controlling CO2 became too powerful of a tool to control everything to give up on.
The natural comparison is how an earth centered solar system and creationism became religious dogma. All sorts of increasing bizarre and complicated models had to be invented by scientists to make the flawed theories conform to dogma despite increasingly contradicting evidence and observations. Like today, good science/scientists were forced to submit to the ruling class…or else.
The ice cores show CO2 has nothing to do with warming. CO2 concentration go up and down 400 to 800 years after global temperature changes.
Human CO2 is not new CO2, it was always there.
The oceans & geology contain more CO2 than humans can generate in a million years.
https://sciencenordic.com/agriculture-archaeology-denmark/vikings-grew-barley-in-greenland/1447746
“The Greenland climate was a bit warmer than it is today, and the southernmost tip of the great island was luscious and green and no doubt tempted Eric the Red and his followers. This encouraged them to cultivate some of the seed corn they brought with them from Iceland.
“The Vikings also tried to grow other agricultural crops. Their attempts to grow these crops and barley did not last long, however, as the climate cooled over the next couple of centuries until the Little Ice Age started in the 13th century.”
Only 1000 years ago. We don’t need to go all the way back to 416K years ago to find that Greenland was actually green.
https://crev.info/2018/08/ww2-aircraft-found-300-ft-greenland-ice/
Several airplanes were forced down on Greenland’s ice cap by bad weather in WW2. 50 years later some warbird enthusiasts decided to go and rescue some of them. What they found was certainly not politically correct.
“Metcalfe does not explain how the aircraft became buried so quickly. A thermal probe that can melt the ice was required to reach the craft. Search leader Jim Salazar, who runs a machinery business in Pasadena, California, plans to extricate the craft from the ice next summer with mostly his own funds.
“How can Metcalfe ignore the obvious question? People reading this would want to know how a WW2 plane became entombed 300 feet deep in ice in just 76 years. Creation Magazine reported on the discovery of the first P-38, saying that the find challenges slow-and-gradual preconceptions. Carl Wieland tells the story of the crash landings, and notes that searchers in the 1980s expected to find them sitting on top of the ice in pristine condition in the deep freeze of Greenland.
“In the years to follow, a few people occasionally recalled the legendary Lost Squadron of 1942, but it was only in 1980 that anyone thought of a salvage mission. U.S. airplane dealer Patrick Epps told his friend, architect Richard Taylor, that the planes would be like new. “All we’d have to do is shovel the snow off the wings, fill them with gas, crank them up and fly them off into the sunset. Nothing to it.”
“To their surprise, the searchers found the first bomber in 1988 not on the surface, but under 250 feet of ice. The deep burial had occurred in just 50 years. The bomber had been crushed by the deep ice. It wasn’t until 1992 that the sturdier P-38 “Glacier Girl” was recovered. All the planes were in the same position, Wieland notes, but had moved horizontally 3 miles inside the glacier.
“To their surprise, the searchers found the first bomber in 1988 not on the surface, but under 250 feet of ice.
Yup. That story crossed my mind early this morning so I looked it up on Popular Mechanics. They explained the cause of the plane being buried under 300 ft. of ice as a result of the “ever shifting ice sheets of Greenland”.
Hmmmmmm…I dunno.
Will this put a stake into the theory of Mann-Made Global Warming (of One tree in Siberia)? of course not, too much power is at stake to ever admit that CO2 follows temperature rise, not the other way around.
No, I doubt there will be one coup de grace that finishes off the AGW theory. Too much momentum. Too many big egos too deeply involved. Too much money at stake. If anything happens to diminish its hold, it will be a new apocalyptic scenario by the usual suspects.
the “science” may not be settled. but the grants, the payoffs, the grifters are and the money will continue to flow until the next great bogeyman can be conjured up.
Good one, Brian. Mental gymnastics indeed. But they end up looking like the class putz who tried to do a flip on the trampoline and, to the delight of everyone, ended up straddling the steel frame and crushing his balls.
CO2 is a means of control; nothing reasonable will change that.
From Brian’s article (not his quote)
“…atmospheric concentrations of planet-warming carbon dioxide were about 280 parts per million, compared to today’s 422 parts per million—a number that continues to skyrocket.”
Skyrocket?! That’s Parts per Million! An increase of 140ppm is a totally insignificant increase, my guess would be cherrypicked data.
When we have paid enough tax to fix climate change, how will we fix continental drift?
Simple Howie, Big friggin anchors!
Saving the world by giving monopiles to your friends are we?.. Maybe if we didn’t hate each other so much politically we would notice how absurd such a thing is.. Affirmative action on steroids.. A classic case of graft and mission creep.. The template is everywhere you look.. The Marxist modus operandi.. 90% are frauds and the other 10% are sellouts..
The effect co2 has on temperature is unmeasurable.
Like I always say: “You can fool some of the people some of the time, and usually that’s good enough.”
Greenland ice mass changes are result of accretion minus melt, so nobody would find it that surprising that planes lost on the ice cap in 1942 would be found under many feet of ice. The statistics show that slightly more ice is melting than accreting. I think the response to it is exaggerated but there is no controversy about whether or not Greenland ice is being slowly reduced in recent decades. What may have happened in decades before the 20th century is more in doubt.
It is also well known (if perhaps ignored by CC zealots) that a relatively warm arctic climate existed about 3,500 years ago when there was less sea ice in the Canadian arctic islands, allowing whales to migrate into now ice-locked basins so that ancestors of the Innuit could hunt them in those waters. There was probably another relatively warm arctic period around the peak of the Medieval Warm Period enticing Norse settlers to practice agriculture along sheltered fjords of west Greenland, a lifestyle which became threatened by a cooling climate in the 14th century, apparently leading to the end of that culture. The relative roles played by starvation, emigration back to Iceland or hostile encounters with better adapted tribal people are not clear but through some combination of all of those, the Norse Greenlanders disappeared. Ice expanded to cover some but not all of their pasture lands. Greenland has never been 100% covered in ice but the peak (known) coverage was about 2 or 3 per cent greater than today, in the Little Ice Age. It may of course have been 100% at the peak of the last major glacial era. Baffin Island was then almost fully covered with land ice as well. Remnants of that can be found both on northern Baffin mountains and further inland but about 90% of Baffin Island is now ice free.
That 250′ of snow/ice cover over the aircraft? That’s only 3+ ft. per year (80 yrs.).
Many of the ski areas in BC get in excess of a 10′ snow base per Winter. Our Springs and Summers are warm enough that very little of that survives from year to year.
Dr John Clauser – 2022 Nobel prize and 2010 Wolf winner in physics is cancelled after calling climate crisis a hoax.
https://slaynews.com/news/nobel-prize-winning-scientists-canceled-declaring-climate-crisis-narrative-hoax/?utm_source=mailpoet&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily-newsletter
We can only trust the non-scientist, professional liar, former president and Nobel-winner who purchased a massive home at sea level in Massachusetts and then outfitted it with a giant, underground LP gas tank. His chef just drowned, by the way, an obvious victim of the rising, racist ocean.
Jibe, not jive