Them Joos was askin fer it: …the greater the Palestinian offense, the greater Israel’s crimes must have been in causing such a reaction.
Them Joos was askin fer it: …the greater the Palestinian offense, the greater Israel’s crimes must have been in causing such a reaction.
BTW this is a big red flag for me re West future. It’s not gonna be pretty at all:
– young generation is into eco-militant stuff + lately, pro-Palestinian scream-fest
– before this, there was pro-Marxist, gender-‘expression’, pro-abortion, race/BLM, defund-the-police stuff.
My point is that young generation’ “new” ideas are all wrong. In contrast, 30 yrs ago students’ ideas were about freedom, work/endurance, patriotism, respect for each other.
Future is never good when an entire generation is pushing the wrong buttons.
I got into a conversation with a Democrat the other night and he asked, “Who are you more frightened by, the extreme left or the extreme right?” I, of course, picked the former and he seemed astonished. I asked when was the last time you saw mobs from the extreme right (if there is such a thing) burn and loot a major city like what happened in Minneapolis and other places in 2020? He, of course, countered with Jan. 6. I mused, “Oh and how long will it take to rebuild the Capitol building?”
Ohhhhhhhh mommmmaaaaa … but Thomas … how long will it take us to rebuild our Democracy? It will take years of selective prosecutions, and Deep State Bureaus of Investigation dispatching with constitutional rights.
And Thomas, that really was not a riot, except in the minds of democrat communists that stole an election with blatant fraud and help from communist courts. America is f****d by the way, even worse than Canada because America was once free.
How dare a successful culture defend itself.. Nobody wants to be a witness to a crime but everybody wants to offer a opinion on why it happened.. As I’m fond of saying, unmeasurable things even when calipers are involved..
Politics, media, social media.. A court where hearsay is admissible and facts are secondary at best.. We are lost in this dopamine death spiral.. Problem is it works $$$.. So nobody really wants to get rid of it.. Enter censorship and control $$$.. Hide the truth..
That opens up the no wind in my sails problem.. The BS only floats because people oppose it.. Nothing to win, no reason to fight tyranny.. Are you really saving the world?.. Will peace come when you kill your last enemy?..
Make work projects that have taken over every corner of our society.. Rational thought banned so we can rate the entertainment value of a fat lady banging on a drum.. 4 out of 5 stars?..
Law, order and government is supposed to be above all that.. Big brother is not designed to solve idiot problems.. Why do we have no respect for our leaders?.. They are not leaders anymore..
I believe the west should stay out of all wars, let these countries resolve the issues on their own. Neither the US or Canada has the resources now to defend ourselves, especially if it needs to be against two different factions coming at us. Sure, take in TRUE refugees, they should be happy to assimilate to western culture. If not then ship them back. Make sure we have resources, and laws to back this up.
Western? How about Northern Canada? If you’re not willing to work in the Yukon or NWT, how badly do you want in? Instead they all go to Toronto. And what a shithole that’s become.
How about not allowing the ba*tards into our countries.
It’s possible to fully and unequivocally support Israels right to exist, and not approve of the tactics they are using to that end. The response that if you don’t support Israel’s actions, you’re an anti-semite is the kind of emotive reactive psychology that happens in a war, I get that, but I don’t have to fall into it myself (and I won’t).
Hence your conclusion is that Hamas should continue to exist. I won’t fall into that illogically dangerous mindset. It will be quite messy to do what needs to be done … and yeah … I’m OK with that. The trigger to every Israeli response is the heinous acts of Hamas. Hamas must be wiped off the face of the planet. Frankly, the Gazans should be thanking, if not assisting the IDF in this effort.
“Hence your conclusion is that Hamas should continue to exist.”
I didn’t say anything about Hamas. I favour a 2 state solution as the only realistic end game in the Middle East. You’ve rationalized yourself into to a moral framework where it’s OK to kill civilians, I assume that’s meaning of the “quite messy” comment. In that respect you agree with Hamas.
You seem to forget that Israel has had the Arab declaration of war hanging over their head since 1948…and it still stands today. By the way, hiding behind civilians as shields is a war crime. Run along now.
“By the way, hiding behind civilians as shields is a war crime”
It would also be a war crime to bomb the Al Alhi hospital courtyard, as civilians had taken refuge there, camping out on the lawns. As the New York Times has demonstrated by analysis triangulating the launch point from multiple video views, the missile the Israelis are claiming was a misfired Hamas rocket, could only have originated from inside Israel. Which raises the question of how much trust we should put in statements by the IDF.
You mean the FIVE TIMES Israel has offered a two-State solution only to be thwarted by “Palestinians” who demand the total elimination of Israel?
A two-State solution is untenable … just as untenable as Russia carving out a piece of Ukraine … right?
“just as untenable as Russia carving out a piece of Ukraine”
I am not sure what your point is. A 2 state solution has already happened in Ukraine, back in 2014 when the Donestk and Luhansk People’s Republics separated from Ukraine. The Minsk accords attempted to bring them back together but in the end they failed.
“I didn’t say anything about Hamas. I favour a 2 state solution as the only realistic end game in the Middle East. ”
You might…but Hamas DOES NOT.
They favor a “one state solution”, and they have been very clear about it. It’s in their Charter, FFS.
“You’ve rationalized yourself into to a moral framework where it’s OK to kill civilians, I assume that’s meaning of the “quite messy” comment. In that respect you agree with Hamas.”
Killing civilians *by accident*, as Israel does, is quite different that targeting them deliberately, as Hamas does. Using your civilian population as human shields, hiding your main headquarters under the largest hospital in Gaza, firing unguided rockets into civilian areas from beside day cars and elementary schools (or hotels full of western journalists, like last time), confining your people inside apartment buildings (which also contain your bombs factories and weapons stashes) when the IDF warns them of impending attack, strapping explosive vests to mentally-challenged children and sending them towards groups of soldiers, transporting your weapons and fighters inside ambulances, sacrificing 160 of your own children to dig tunnels into Israel for the express purpose of attacking and kidnapping Israeli civilians, etc etc. How many more examples do you need?
How about Israel lying about the Al Alhi hospital attack? Are you OK with that? After all the IDF posted radar tracks of the Hamas rocket launches at the time so they had to know that the missile that exploded allegedly over the hospital was actually one of their own interceptors.
Anyway when you know you’re going to kill a lot of civilians it’s not really an accident, it’s a conscious decision that killing civilians is acceptable collateral damage.
“Israels Iron Dome interceptor system…”
Who said it was Iron Dome? It could be another type of SAM. Anyway the NY Times analysis is solid, whatever kind of missile it was, the exploding missile was launched from Israel. In fact the analysis is so solid you can easily confirm for yourself the missile was launched from inside Israel.
Using only the Colony Beach/Bat Yam camera video you can see the missile launch appears well to the left of the lights of Ashdod (the camera is looking south). If you plot a line on google earth from the camera position and run it to the left/east of Ashdod that line is wholly outside of the Gaza border fence.
The NYT triangulates 3 camera views which is even better but the bottom line is that it’s not possible the missile came from Gaza.
Kenji, I’m in full agreement with you. I noted the responses from Klapper, and he seems to assume you mean all Palestinians when you actually say Hamas needs to be eradicated. I don’t think civilians should be involved with this, but Hamas does, and those idiots in Gaza voted in Hamas in the first place. Israel tries to avoid civilian casualties, but Hamas deliberately involves Israeli civilians. Those Palestinians that support Hamas are just as guilty of the war crimes that Hamas inflicted on Israel.
So yup, I agree, this ugly group of evil islamic terrorists known as Hamas and their buddies Hezbollah should?…. MUST, be wiped off the face of the earth. Also, I don’t favor a two state solution. They tried that, and Hamas used that as an advantage to inflict more pain on Israel. Enough!
“he seems to assume”
I don’t think Kenji means eradicate all Gazans. My original point is that Israel is acting in an unethical manner, and saying so doesn’t make me an anti-semite. Likewise supporting Israel’s right to exist doesn’t mean I’m a Zionist.
Anyway, you’re not going eradicate Hamas militarily. And trying to do so with no regard to civilian collateral damage will set back Israel’s long term goal of a peaceful, prosperous existence. As an example, Turkey has suspended work on a joint gas pipeline project with Israel.
“My original point is that Israel is acting in an unethical manner, and saying so doesn’t make me an anti-semite.”
No, but continuing to post LIES about the Al Alhi hospital attack might.
Israels Iron Dome interceptor system *cannot* intercept any rockets while they are in the initial boost phase…it must wait until after the apogee is reached to determine trajectory. Then the computer quickly determines where the rocket is expected to hit…if it is targeted at an empty field or a parking lot, for example, it lets it go (in favor of saving their ammunition for rockets that are projected to hit either populated areas or military targets).
Nice try. You fool no one.
Just wait until the protesters, along with the rest of us, are overrun by the foreign armies that come in while we are weakened by division and a popgun military, obsession with colonizers’ racism genocide and other such stuff. Those protesters and “oppressed” people will be wishing they’d left things alone, wishing they could go back 20 years.
But one can never go back, only forward, and one can choose which way to steer: left or right. Left gets us farther down this destructive path.
Klapper
You are relying on the New York Times? Really? They have zero credibility. Have you learned nothing in the last six years?
“You are relying on the New York Times? Really? They have zero credibility. Have you learned nothing in the last six years?”
Yeah, I always stop reading when I see ‘New York Times’. The US military intelligence community sticks by their original assessment when asked about the NYT ‘analysis’ : it was a misfired missile. Gee, who to believe…a left-wing newspaper trying hard to cover up their initial misreporting, or the experts who do this thing for a living?
“You are relying on the New York Times?”
True enough the NY Times is not to be trusted. However because the analysis seemed pretty irrefutable, I cross-checked the NY Times by doing the experiment I describe above. I watched the video showing the launch of the infamous “failed Hamas rocket” and noted it rose from a point apparently to the east of the bright lights of Ashdod. Knowing the location of the Bat Yam camera, I plotted a line from that point to the left/east of Ashdod and noted that this line does not intersect the Gaza. The closest it gets is about the Israeli city of Sderot, but still outside Gaza.
The Israelis know full well the failed rocket was one of their own and had nothing to do with the hospital explosion. But they also know that 99.9% of people don’t know how to do this geometric kind of analysis, even the simple experiment I describe above. Plus they’re too lazy to look into the technical side of these events. Once they hear the answer they want to hear, their ears are closed to any subsequent challenge.
Have you even looked at the analysis? My guess is not, and neither are you going to (that’s a pretty safe prediction).
Your “analysis” seems to be wrong from the get go. Hamas uses rockets and Israel uses missiles, not rockets. Rocket hit parking lot, not hospital. Immediate reaction from Hamas’ was hyperbole to blame and cover their mistake. Also, a good percentage of Hamas rockets end up being friendly fire.
“And trying to do so with no regard to civilian collateral damage” would not include warnings, or targeting of only Hamas instations and leaders homes.
The attack on October 7 was not a military installation, in case you hadn’t noticed.
Also, it has come toy attention, that the kibbutz attackers were trusted employees, who knew their way around, where the valuables were kept, the safe rooms, and were trusted by the children. So their sole purpose of employment was to gain trust and knowledge, so as better to wipe them out. Nice. /s
“Also, it has come toy attention, that the kibbutz attackers were trusted employees, who knew their way around, where the valuables were kept, the safe rooms, and were trusted by the children. So their sole purpose of employment was to gain trust and knowledge, so as better to wipe them out. Nice. /s”
Really? I hadn’t heard that yet. If true, that’s huge…
“The attack on October 7 was not a military installation, in case you hadn’t noticed.”
If you mean they did not attack any military installations, that’s false. It’s the first thing they did attack. One of the more interesting stories to come out of this war is the testimony of an Israel intelligence officers who managed to survive the Hamas initial attack on a base near the Nahal Oz kibbutz, less than a half-mile southeast of the Gaza border. Most of their colleagues died in the attack, but the 2 that survived are blowing the whistle that they had been warning their superiors of heightened Hamas activity in the 3 months preceding the attack. So in conjunction with alleged warnings from US intelligence, and Egyptian intelligence, it appears the Israelis knew from internal intelligence that something was in the works.
“Rocket hit parking lot, not hospital.”
You’ll note my first post above on the subject says the explosion, likely some kind of airburst munition, hit the “courtyard”. I’m well aware of the details of this attack, it appears more so than other posters on this thread. The bottom line is this: the missile the Israelis claim hit the hospital courtyard was launched from inside Israel. Now perhaps they might want to change their story, maybe claim some rocket/missile that hit the courtyard had expended it’s fuel and thus was invisible to the video cameras (i.e. an artillery rocket), but as far as I know they haven’t changed their story which is a pretty obvious lie.
“would not include warnings”
The Anglican Church of Jerusalem which operates the Al Alhi hospital said that over the weekend preceding the Monday incident, the hospital received 3 separate order to evacuate the hospital from the IDF which indicates they maybe thought it was harbouring Hama fighters, and intended to attack it.
My final point is this. No one here appears to have a counterargument to the technical reasoning of the NY Times. Your arguments are the same format the left uses all the time, i.e: “97% of scientists can’t be wrong”, which is to say when don’t have the hard facts on your side, appeal to authority, in this case US Military intelligence etc.