Down The Primrose Path

Democrats Drain The Swamp RINO Ukraine 80 Comments

This is why I subscribe to Matt Taibbi: CIA, Ukraine Exchange Pre-Divorce Propaganda

Over the weekend the New York Times published an epic exposé. “The Spy War: How the C.I.A. Secretly Helps Ukraine Fight Putin,” by Adam Entous and Mitchell Schwirtz, described a decade of CIA-Ukrainian cooperation, featuring details that would never reach public ears under normal circumstances. The opening is worth quoting at length:

“Nestled in a dense forest, the Ukrainian military base appears abandoned and destroyed… But that is above ground. Not far away, a discreet passageway descends to a subterranean bunker where teams of Ukrainian soldiers track Russian spy satellites and eavesdrop on conversations between Russian commanders…

“The listening post in the Ukrainian forest is part of a C.I.A.-supported network of spy bases constructed in the past eight years that includes 12 secret locations along the Russian border.”

Yowza! Officials have long scolded the public that even minor disclosures of “sources and methods” could “risk lives” and must be prevented at all costs. Yet here comes the Times, helping “current and former officials in Ukraine, the United States and Europe” blab a long list of extraordinary details, down to the number of CIA-supported secret bases along the Russian border. An abridged list of revelations:

• CIA director William Burns made a “secret” visit to Ukraine last Thursday, his tenth since Russia’s invasion;

• On the night of February 14, 2014, in the middle of the Maidan coup, Ukrainian spy chief Valentyn Nalyvaichenko called the heads of the CIA and Britain’s MI6 and asked for help in rebuilding his agency “from the ground up”;

• Ukrainian intelligence officials, seeking to prove their value to American counterparts, handed the CIA proof that Russian separatists downed Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 “within hours of the crash” in July of 2014;

• Then-head of Ukrainian military intelligence Valeriy Kondratiuk handed the CIA “detailed information about the latest Russian nuclear submarine designs” in 2015;

• “Around” 2016, the CIA “began training an elite Ukrainian commando force” called “Unit 2245” which “captured Russian drones and communications gear so that CIA technicians could reverse-engineer them and crack Moscow’s encryption systems”;

• The CIA’s chief of station in Kyiv was nicknamed “Santa Claus”;

• A Ukrainian agent “duped an officer from Russia’s military intelligence service” into providing intelligence that “allowed the C.I.A. to connect Russia’s government to the so-called Fancy Bear hacking group, which had been linked to election interference.”

Former CIA head John Brennan sitting for a month of interviews with Kitty Kelley wouldn’t produce this many juicy reveals. They even recounted the CIA hauling Kondratiuk to a Washington Capitals game to boo Alex Ovechkin, for God’s sake. Are these spy agencies or people pitching a Netflix series?

Sign up for the free trial period if you must to read it.

Blog note: If you cannot refrain from insults and trolling the same people for the thousandth time, refrain from commenting or find another blog. – ED

80 Replies to “Down The Primrose Path”

    1. That’s not how offensive ops work. Ask the US about a place called “Afghanistan” … where some guys called “the Taliban” had secret bases all over the country.

      1. A Cia document claimed we have 43 Weapons and biological lab’s in Ukraine.
        Reminds me of ‘SPIES LIKE US”
        movie.
        “An unused weapon is a useless weapon.”
        Nice to know we have some smart dipshites on government top secret and payrolls.
        Sheesh.
        Ps, Do you think they would start a nuclear war with Russia? ,,yo

        1. Show us the document or you are full of it.

          I will give you $10,000 for proof that Ukraine has violated the biological weapons convention post 1991.

          2. Your link says the exact opposite:

            “The United States has provided this assistance with transparency and in cooperation with our partners, which included Russia prior to 2014, toward mutually-decided objectives, and has been reported on a regular basis.”

    2. well JOKE this is not about VIDEO games, so it may just be propaganda, so go back to reddit and watch yer video war, T-90 turret tossing. Take the COLON and unDORK with you.

      And I posted a link to this, for you and the other never Putiners , in readers tips a couple of days ago. Try keeping up FOOL.

    3. “12 secret bases along the Russian border?

      Wouldn’t they have been overrun during the SMO?”

      Not if they were secret enough.

    4. “Overrun”??

      How is that possible when SDA military experts have already stated that “Russia has lost”!

      You can go back in the archives up to two years now and see it for yourself.

      BTW – didn’t Ukraine already clear Russias 1st, 2nd, & 3rd lines of defence in the summer offensive by now? How many miles did our 200 billion tax dollars earn us?

      2. Paul, Fred

        By June 2022, Russia occupied 20% of Ukraine (i.e. overrun). I would have thought that the Russians would have been able to find some of these secret bases which were supposedly along the border.

        Wouldn’t the local population, who we are told are overwhelmingly pro Russia, have fingered at least one of them to the Russians?

        Or wouldn’t Russia’s spy agencies have some knowledge of at least one of these CIA bases?

        1. ” Paul, Fred

          By June 2022, Russia occupied 20% of Ukraine (i.e. overrun). I would have thought that the Russians would have been able to find some of these secret bases which were supposedly along the border.”

          Perhaps they already have, and they are now (quietly) using them for their own purposes. Or maybe, like I said earlier, they are just very well hidden.

          “Wouldn’t the local population, who we are told are overwhelmingly pro Russia, have fingered at least one of them to the Russians?”

          Not if they didn’t know about them, and they wouldn’t if they were ‘secret’ enough.

          “Or wouldn’t Russia’s spy agencies have some knowledge of at least one of these CIA bases?”

          The old KBG might have. The new agency, the FSB, who knows how competent they are?

          What are you trying to say here, Joe…that you think this story is a lie? I thought you were a supporter of the New York Times?

          2. @joe

            NYT isn’t true?

            But the NYT has had the same talking points word for word as the SDA military experts since Feb 2022??)

            What’s going on with you guys?

  2. NATO today is a joke.
    More like an irritant then any actual physical threat to Russia.
    A bunch of people pretending to be leaders but are definitely cowards.
    Military capabilities are terrible with broken Military and broken machinery.
    Against drones and missiles that are extremely accurate and destructive is suicidal.
    Russia doesn’t want it’s infrastructure blown to crap either because it doesn’t want to have to rebuild it again.
    Ukraine is Russia and nothing will be stopping that.

    Other countries like China and Muslim nations aren’t going to interfere.

    1. Why don’t you ask Ukrainians what they think? They wanted nothing to do with Russia before Putinbstarted leveling cities.

      1. “Why don’t you ask Ukrainians what they think? They wanted nothing to do with Russia before Putinbstarted leveling cities.”

        Except for the millions who did. Especially the ones being ‘ethnically cleansed’ by your Nazi buddies.

        (8+ million, or roughly 17% of the Ukrainian population are ethnic Russians)

        1. More fake news.

          Go read the OSCE reports. Russia is responsible for the majority of the 3400 civilian deaths between 2014-2022.

          Genocide of Russians = Iraq has undeclared WMD

          Who leveled Russian speaking Bakhmut? Russian speaking Avdiivka? Russian speaking Soledar? Russian speaking Mariupol?

          Just because someone speaks Russian doesn’t make them Russian.. There are many older Ukrainians who can only speak Russian, they consider themselves Ukrainian.

          1. “More fake news.”

            Yes, everything that proves you wrong is ‘fake’, right Allan?

            “Go read the OSCE reports. Russia is responsible for the majority of the 3400 civilian deaths between 2014-2022.”

            The OSCE is about as credible as the UN. Go read the eyewitness reports by the people who lived there and the reporters who covered the massacres.

            “Genocide of Russians = Iraq has undeclared WMD”

            Not surprised at all that you would fall for that. Iraq DID have WMDs, and everyone knew it.

            (ask the people Saddam gassed)

            They had tons of precursor chemicals for making nerve agents sold to them by nations all over the world. TONS, Allan. When Hans Blix and his UN inspection teams went in looking for them, and could not find them, they than declared them “non-existant”. Wow…how convenient, eh?
            We KNEW they had them (and had the sales records to PROVE it), but we couldn’t find them, therefore we declare that they no longer exist? LOL…

            “Who leveled Russian speaking Bakhmut? Russian speaking Avdiivka? Russian speaking Soledar? Russian speaking Mariupol?”

            Who made it necessary? Who continues to inflame and exploit a war that Ukraine CAN NOT WIN?

            “Just because someone speaks Russian doesn’t make them Russian.. There are many older Ukrainians who can only speak Russian, they consider themselves Ukrainian.”

            Take it up with the pollsters and statistics organizations who claim otherwise. Go ahead, Allan…Google it, then go down the list and contact all those organizations and tell them they are all wrong about the number of ethnic Russians living in various areas of Ukraine. Channel your inner Don Quixote.

          2. Thats hilarious given how much Russia takes quotes out of OSCE reports out of context.

            The “eyewitness reports” are almost always from paid Russian propagandists.

            All that matters in Iraq is *UNDECLARED* WMD which was never found.

            You’ve been fooled by Russian propaganda. Sad.

      2. Allan… Do you consider the people living in the eastern part of Ukraine to actually be Ukrainians?
        Because there’s a serious debate about that. What is not debatable was that the Ukraine government has been taking military action against the region. Whether or not these actions were justified… well, I’m sure you’re going to come up with an explanation for that.

        1. Russia invaded in 2014. Go read Girkins comments on what he did in Crimea and Donbas in 2014. Then get back to me.

          1. Yes, I am well aware of Russia invading Crimea in 2014, and I got the gist of Girkins’ comments about the impending invasion (I’m surprised you didn’t provide a link).
            But tell me… was that invasion before or after the Ukraine government turned its army against the people of that region (regardless whether or not those people were Ukrainian, or Russian)?

    1. Your ignorance is stunning. The CIA does not care about Ukraine. Their aim is to antagonize Russia. Ukraine is being used.

      1. Your ignorance is stunning. CIA does not need to love Ukraine to help Ukraine free herself from the russian anything and everything. Russia is the enemy, of Western World, of Ukraine, of Civilization. Russia needs to be eliminated, once and for all neutered, ground to dust and dust salted never to threaten Civilization again. Ukraine is fighting to free herself from russia and become a apart of Civilization. We owe them. There is nothing more vile than a pampered westerner willing to sentence tens of millions of people to life under a Siberian Mongol boot because of internal Western squabbles.

    2. – How is that a bad thing? Excellent, bravo CIA, job well done.

      The list of supposed CIA activities isn’t the bad thing; the fact that we’re seeing the list (real or not), and in the NYT, is the potentially bad thing (bad from your and my perspective). Taibbi seems to suggest it means that a breakup with Ukraine is on the cards, and that’s an interpretation that may be true – or just invented to sell to people who are all too ready to lap it up (hit subscribe!, buy the book!).

    4. @Linda
      “The CIA does not care about Ukraine.”

      The US cares as much about the Ukraine now as England cared about Poland in 1939.

    1. I have no dog in this fight, just tax money. I think objective Ukrainians should be apoplectic at their treatment. 500,000 dead, and for what? So a bunch of aparatchiks in Washington can play their silly games against Russia, as Russia refuses to join the globalist cabal. Zelensky will be dead in 30 days, I wonder if he thinks it was worth it? Ukraine will be under military control, hard to spin that fighting for democracy crap then /sarc

      1. “I have no dog in this fight, just tax money. I think objective Ukrainians should be apoplectic at their treatment. 500,000 dead, and for what? So a bunch of aparatchiks in Washington can play their silly games against Russia, as Russia refuses to join the globalist cabal.”

        Agreed. It’s all about the money…always has been. The political benefits for some are just a bonus.

        “Zelensky will be dead in 30 days, I wonder if he thinks it was worth it? ”

        Probably, if he doesn’t flee the country first.

    2. I am pretty sick of folks talking about “freeing” Ukraine, or justifying CIA black ops as justified in any way.
      I should think adult people in this day and age would have a more nuanced view of this war than some here seem to. Here’s a hint, if your opinion hasn’t changed or evolved since the beginning of this conflict, you might not be open minded.
      As for the link warriors here, stop. You believe who you want to believe based on what you want to believe. Try using common sense and reading outside of your comfort zone. But seriously, I find it hard to understand how some folk can talk about “reliable sources” anymore.

    1. I have met some Canadians whose parents immigrated to Canada after World War II and they are smart and capable. Sadly, the ones left behind were responsible for Chernobyl (sp?) and have elected an idiot as their leader – he has suspended elections and has eliminated most of his opposition while cozying up to NATO and antagonizing Russia.
      It is sad that the war has started its third year, but I still think this is not going to end well for Ukraine.

  7. Tucker C mentioned last week in an interview with Glen Beck that the Russkies have 7x the artillery-making production infrastructure than NATO. This may sound alarming to many, but please remember that NATO’s DEI/ESG/WOKE infrastructure is at least 100x larger that Mother Russia’s. Take that Pooty-Poot!

  8. This is old news if you have been following Col. Macgregor , Larry Johnson, Ray McGovern, Scott Ritter and is a prelude to the US abandoning Ukraine , so they don’t have to admit defeat. Ukraine is a repeat of Vietnam , Iraq, and Afghanistan where they quietly just left in the night.

    Some current Ukraine status …
    https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/sitrep-22724-desperate-globalists#media-acf9eee3-bcde-40ef-94eb-7795dc8af8a9

    This is reminiscent of the German Army retreat from Russia in WW2.

    2. There is something off with the video of the Abrams Tank allegedly getting smoked. It seems to be two separate videos poorly spliced together.

      2. “There is something off with the video of the Abrams Tank allegedly getting smoked. It seems to be two separate videos poorly spliced together.”

        So, much like your average Ukrainian propaganda video, then? Where they keep destroying the same equipment over and over again but use different camera angles to make it look like a separate event?

  9. “Are these spy agencies or people pitching a Netflix series?”

    I would say much closer to the latter than the former. And this isn’t anything new. The CIA has fed the public so many ridiculous stories over the decades and is so woefully inept at their apparent job, people should be shot for criminal incompetence.

    How many times did they fail to assassinate Castro?

    How many CIA agents were fired for 9-11?

    If instead the CIA is an agency to spy on Americans, and the cover story for their existence is that they spy on other nations to protect Americans, then this kind of thing makes far more sense.

    I long ago stopped subscribing to the official narrative and see the officials of all nations as working together AGAINST the people within their own borders. And they cooperate with each other to eliminate common problems within their own borders.

    The world has been ruled by the same people for a loooOOOOOoooong time, and the fiction of independent nations allows them to work invisibly, and also provides plausible deniability for hostile actions against whoever they wish.

    Rather than the people retaliating against the only real enemy they all share, they are instead pointed against each other by their puppet masters.

    1. The CIA has been good at one thing. Infiltration of the MSM, broadcasting the propaganda since Feb of 2022, that “Ukraine is winning”. That has convinced enough useful idiots, until recently.
      500,000 dead Ukrainians, sent into the meat grinder of a superior Russian military machine. Now they’re rounding up teenagers, women and old men to put on a uniform and sent to their ultimate fate.
      All because the Ukraine had a Nazi problem, genociding 14,000 ethnic Russians in the Donbas region, and couldn’t help themselves for doing that.
      This war is over, but the Ukes are too arrogant to realize it. It was stupid to not reach an accord when they could, but BoJo ensured that was scuttled. Maybe he is the one truly guilty of crimes against humanity!

      1. Well said DanBC.. though I won’t hold my breath waiting for BoJo to be charged. personally I’d like to see Victoria Nuland ,Merkel,Macron etc etc charged alongside. The Minsk Accords were an entirely reasonable solution but they would have seriously damaged the egos of all the neocons in the west. Imagine that! having to admit that Russia was right. we will come to regret the day the collective west chose to not work toward cooperation with Russia.

      2. And much like in Afghanistan, there’s a convenient excuse to expend vast swathes of aging materiel. Good thing for those who own it that the war is inexplicably being slowly drawn out rather than Russia absolutely whomping the Ukraine in a matter of hours or days…

    1. A bigger plan the CIA might like? Keep feeding the woke right pro-Russian conspiracy tosh so their numbers and enthusiasm result in Trump spouting it too. Then the media shows Trump in favor of appeasing Russia, and the moderates and independents walk away from him. This stuff looks completely barking to regular folk.

      1. Why has an outlet that’s pushed every DNC and establishment narrative (ie on Ukraine, among others) suddenly publish an “explosive” report on CIA shenanigans in Ukraine? Have they had a come to Jesus moment of honest, investigative, reporting? Do you accept NYT and WP reports on face value without wondering whose agenda they’re promoting? You clearly don’t see any nuance in this conflict beyond Russia/Putin bad, Ukraine/Zelensky good.
        God bless.

        1. You asked us to consider a bigger plan behind the NYT/CIA release, and I offered a possible bigger plan. You might not agree with it but let’s not pretend that it isn’t there.

          Is my suggestion unrealistic? Well, I just sat through Scott Adams’ latest (actually I went on my treadmill), and here’s a link to his discussion of this:
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl6Vjho85v4&t=4894s
          It’s basically – we’re the bad guys and he supports Russia and he doesn’t care about anything else. And this is a bloke who supports Trump and has met him in the Oval Office, so don’t think this increasingly widespread attitude on the right isn’t getting back to Trump.

    2. MarkV ..
      Whoever is running Biden (Obama, Suzan Rice etc.) are not entirely stupid. An election is on the horizon and this may be a way of first broaching the issue that Ukraine is losing , painting the CIA , MIC etc. as good guys , then blame Zelensky as the fall guy and pull out of Ukraine … case closed .. the US doesn’t have to admit defeat.

      1. I agree. But I remain deeply suspicious of these snakes. Aside from trying to extract themselves and maybe save face, what other diversions or schemes do they have cooked up for us next?
        Meanwhile, lots of people, including ones who like to post here, are going to have to brace themselves for the algorithm adjustment they’ve been fed.

  11. A personal “thank you!” to Kate (and ED) – the incessant, noisome bickering is getting REALLY tedious. And I appreciate your forbearance, in that you haven’t banned them all ( – yet – )…

    Hey guys, I’ve an idea – why not go start your own blog, where you can rant and insult each other all you want, don’t have to stick to the topic at-hand (or ANY topic), and not air your dirty laundry here? Pretty please?

  12. The CIA will help Ukraine the way the CIA helped Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and countless central American countries. And it doesn’t matter who is president – of either Ukraine or the US. After a generation of Ukrainian men are gone, they will move on to another globalist money laundering scheme.

    1. Thanks, thought-provoking as you say. Any day now, there will be a call for a cease-fire, er, in Ukraine!

  14. If the ukes are to be believed they are hammering the ruskie air command. 10 jets down in 10 days including an A-50 radar plane. This, if true, is serious stuff. The ruskies are in full denial tho?? Claim it’s not happening.

    If the ukes are nailing jets like they claim, where’s the intel coming from, and the artillery to knock out jets with regularity? Maybe the CIA and the US military machine is involved?

    1. – The ruskies are in full denial tho?? Claim it’s not happening.

      The Russians don’t deny that the jets are falling; they’re denying it’s the Ukrainians – they’re saying it’s friendly fire. Probably true in some cases, the latest A50 AWACS loss looked self inflicted.

      If the ukes are nailing jets like they claim, where’s the intel coming from, and the artillery to knock out jets with regularity? Maybe the CIA and the US military machine is involved?

      Of course the US and NATO allies are involved. It’s no secret that Ukraine benefits from their SIGINT, and we are clearly supplying weapons. Including Patriot SAMs, which are quite capable of knocking out jets.

      1. PJF

        You raise valid points.

        It’s interesting that the Russians have lost two A-50s, (that we know of). Supposedly the Russians built 30, but British MOD says the Russians have 6 operational.

        Russian sources claim it was friendly fire. That must be concerning to Russian crews. But hey, stuff happens in wartime. There are reports that a German frigate in the Red Sea area, recently locked on to a US Reaper surveillance drone and fired two missiles at the drone. Both missiles malfunctioned and fell into the sea.

        Ukrainians say they shot down the A50s. Supposedly the latest one using an S-200 missile. I don’t know if this is true. The S-200 is a rather old system, but theoretically has the range (400 km).

        Re Patriot missiles, which Ukraine has, I thought the second A-50 was outside the published range of the Patriot (80 to 180 km, depending on the missile variant). But who really knows what the real range of Patriot missiles is?

        Since the surveillance planes have powerful radars, I imagine the other side can easily detect and locate them. However, I imagine most of the time the surveillance planes try to stay out of range of possible missile systems.

        1. Ukraine is usually ambiguous with things like this. There’s a lot of rumors that the Patriot system has “off the record capabilities”.

          It does seem odd that the Russians are losing about 1 jet a day.

          1. PAC-2 has max range of 160 km, I doubt this figure is wrong as PAC-2s have been in service for long enough for the basic stats to be known.

            S-200 VEGA as supplied by Poland (and possibly others) has a range of 300km and was especially designed, decades ago, to intercept strategic bombers i.e. large slow moving targets at high altitude… It is a very old with nonexistent anti missile capabilities but against a derivative of an IL-76…

        2. “It’s interesting that the Russians have lost two A-50s, (that we know of). Supposedly the Russians built 30, but British MOD says the Russians have 6 operational.”

          Only nine have been modernized to the A-50U standard that they are using over Ukraine, those have new radars and tech allowing (allegedly) for monitoring low flying cruise missiles. Two were shot down by SAMs and one damaged on the ground by drones. That means they are down to six with used up airframes and engines. There were rumors that some of the older unmodernized airframes were being cannibalized for spares.

  15. Russian Derangement Syndrome is just as bad as Trump Derangement Syndrome.

    I’m not justifying Putin’s invasion, and doubt I ever will. But not even an admission of guilt from every relevant Ukrainian official would ever convince the NAFO apologists, et al, that Ukraine may have poked the bear in this situation, and shouldn’t get Canadian aid, especially whilst Canada is in such bad shape domestically.

    1. Yet they didn’t poke the bear. Russias war machine was in full gear in 2014.

      If you think Ukraine practicing democracy is poking the bear, I’m baffled.

  16. The CIA’s chief of station in Kyiv was nicknamed “Santa Claus”
    Vell of course! 🙂

    Cheers
    C in C
    1st St Nicolaas Army
    Army Group True North

    1. He knows when you are sleeping! He knows when you’re awake! He knows if you’ve been bad or good!

  17. Pingback: Down The Primrose Path – small dead animals

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